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Speaker at Men’s Rights RALLY OF THE CENTURY in Toronto calls on MRAs to take up arms against “communism”

mrarallyPN
Dean Esmay rallies the troops in Toronto

So, it finally happened. The men’s rights lecture and rally in Toronto that A Voice for Men have been breathlessly promoting for weeks — in no less than 17 separate posts — have both come to pass. Men’s Rights celebrities flew in from across the continent to attend the exciting events. Paul Elam was there! So was Karen Straughan! Even Dan Perrins made an appearance! (Oh, wait, I think he lives around there.)

In a post-rally post, AVFM’s Robert O’Hara declared the “Historic MHRA rally in Toronto” to have been a “huge success.”

Well, you can be the judge of that. Go here to watch some actual footage of the event. (Sorry, I can’t get it to embed here.) So far I’ve only watched the final 8-minute video at the top of the page, but it’s pretty revealing in and of itself. The event organizers almost outnumber the sparse crowd. And one of the speakers calls for MRAs to take up arms against their “communist” opponents. No, really, just watch.

In case the video gets pulled, or censored, I’ve taken the liberty of transcribing his remarks: :

There’s an organization out there called communism, and the communist manifesto says that the first thing they have to do is take over power. And they’ll never get elected. And they know that they’ll never get elected. So what they do is they say “we have to take power by violent methods,” right, so if you want to crack back against these people, I hate to say it, but you’ve gotta be prepared to pick up a gun and put down the books.

Emphasis mine.

Someone in the audience responds to this with a hearty “yep!” There’s a smattering of applause, mixed with boos. AVFM’s Dean Esmay hurridly ushers the speaker away from the microphone.

The speaker who follows Esmay — I didn’t catch his name — describes the counterprotesters (who held their own rally nearby) as being of “the hammer and sickle” and denigrates them as “queers.”

This isn’t so much history being made as history repeating itself. I suspect the rhetoric was similar at a lot of White Citizen Council rallies in the sixties.

Oh, and the HISTORIC LECTURE that so many MRAs were hoping and dreaming that feminists would disrupt? Feminists ignored it. Apparently, according to one MRA on Reddit who claimed to have been there, a little more than a hundred people showed up.

Congratulations, A Voice for Men, on your FLAWLESS VICTORY!

I’ll watch as much of the rest of the rally as I can force myself to sit through, and add anything else worth adding.

EDITED TO ADD: I watched the video that covered the rest of the rally. It was pretty uneventful: a low energy, sparsely attended rally with a bunch of half-assed speeches. Apparently no one at A Voice for Men or CAFE, the co-host of the rally, bothered to prepare anything to say — perhaps because they were all expecting some sort of feminist riot? The “pick up a gun” speaker wasn’t one of the scheduled speakers, just someone they gave the microphone to when he raised his hand after the scheduled speakers were done.

One moment that did stand out: a trans man — apparently a member of CAFE — briefly took the mic, taking offense at the chants from the counterprotestors calling MRA’s “anti-gay.” I would suggest he take a look at AVFM’s not-so-proud history of homophobia and transphobia.

EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: Here’s a picture of the event from Civilian Media. You can almost taste the excitement! From left, Nick Reading of Men’s Rights Edmonton, Dean Esmay of AVFM, the legendary Paul Elam (looking a little bewildered), and two other dudes. Paul evidently HEARTS Fucking Their Shit Up. Oh, Paul, we HEART U!

kXDAMZW

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marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

Aw, I want an eBaby.

Re: skidmarks, some people just, physiologically, have a tougher time with them than others, toilet paper or no (though matters are far worse if toilet paper is not being utilised.) I don’t give a damn if a dude is prone to such things. My problem lies with him expecting me to do his skidmarked laundry. Excuse me, Sir, but I don’t believe you’re required to wash my period panties. Why on earth should I be laundering your poopy underpants?

SadinaFem
SadinaFem
7 years ago

Violence against boys and men is often committed by other males. I wonder if they ever pointed that out. Yet avfm spends so much time bashing feminists and women.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

SadinaFem — when we point out that most women who are murdered are murdered by current or former partners, they say that most men are killed by men and since more men are killed annually, fatal DV is less a problem than male victims of violence. Respond that men remain the aggressor in both cases and it’s all YOU HATE MEN! Why don’t you care about the men being killed!

Note that this is a side effect of socializing men as the strong powerful violent gender a cue the cries of MISANDRY!! up to 11.

So yep, they can make anything into a claim of how feminists are misandrist.

10knives
10knives
7 years ago

I’ve watched lets plays of both Vampire the Masquerade CRPGs, as well as having a little experience with the original TTRPGs.

I’m much experienced with its sequel TTRPG Vampire the Requiem, though. VtR is definitely worth a look if you wanna a good horror tabletop roleplaying game, IMO.

Although, right now, I’m using a different rpg system to base a modern fantasy setting on. I guess it’s what you call world-building. I’ve seen regulars on these threads talk about playing TTRPGs, I’d like to hear more about that stuff.

j
j
7 years ago

what is this then? Exaggerated (and entirely anachronistic) anticommunism? Macho-man militancy against the invisable, conspiratorial (and long ago vanquished) foe? Oh my, men’s rights is officially a far-right ideology and it’s only a matter of time before “cultural marxism” starts coming up more and more on their blogs. Their swastikas and 1488 tattoos must be coming in the mail shortly.

It seems the most petty-bourgeois, libertarian, effete and nerdy “mass” “movement” in human history is rapidly descending into unironic fascism, what with Roosh V defending the white honor of that shithead brogrammer. I’ve got a question for the people who’ve been laughing at these geeks for a long time: have they gotten more extreme or is this just normal behavior for them?

markb
markb
7 years ago

I believe there is a phenomenon, I forget what it’s called, where the most extreme members of any group drive out the moderates and then reinforce each other’s extreme views in the absence of any moderating influence. I recall a few years ago, after “Women Who Run With Wolves” there was a whole “Men’s Movement” with all the drumming and the Robert Bly books. I don’t know if the current MRA movement has any connection to that, but it may be an example of how a benign trend becomes more and more reactionary and aggressive.

SittieKitty
7 years ago

Ah yes, that’s right. No man, ever, has ever wanted kids, just teh sex.

Wow. I’ve been lied to! I can’t believe every single father who looked so excited with their new babeh has been lying to me! Serves me right for working in obstetrics I guess!

Malitia
Malitia
7 years ago

@auggziliary. I guess:
A) Because no man ever wants a baby.
B) All those eeeeeeevil family courts would never let them! The sole purpose of those is to force poor men to pay child support!
/sarcasm.

10knives
10knives
7 years ago

“Honey, I’m pregnant. Cash or credit?”

The real question is, paper or plastic?

SittieKitty
7 years ago

Is this because of SPERMJACKING?

No. I wish I could say I believed it was, because my interpretation is that it’s not an option because men needz the secks (where women don’t). Spermjacking would at least be a funny reason. I cannot think that it’s anything more than someone feeling that the entire gender of men require, need, as a necessity for life, sex with a cis woman (I’m just assuming that they don’t think non-heterosexual people exist and that trans* people aren’t considered people in their eyes). That’s why it’s such misandry that women can say no, it’s basically like telling someone they can’t eat, or drink, because sex is such a ~fundamental requirement~ for cis men.

SittieKitty
7 years ago

“Honey, I’m pregnant. Cash or credit?”

The real question is, paper or plastic?

The real question is (given they obviously hate the idea of children), why did they forget rubber?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

That’s why it’s such misandry that women can say no, it’s basically like telling someone they can’t eat, or drink, because sex is such a ~fundamental requirement~ for cis men.

And they never seem to see the difference between “no, you can’t have dinner with me” or “no, I don’t feel like making you a cake right now” and “you may never, ever eat again, because I hate you (and all men)”.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“why did they forget rubber?”

*dies*

SittieKitty — lots of places you can actually return the baby to the hospital (or other approved locations) under “safe haven” laws. The concept is much older than feminism though and meant to give mothers a way to anonymously put the kid up for adoption. Afaik it started back when infanticide did actually occur with some regularity, I know I’ve seen medieval style “baby boxes”

So yeah, that one is an option, but afaik the person depositing the newborn at the safe haven doesn’t need to be female. But I could be wrong on that, and how old the infant may be is location based, most places, again afaik, limit it to really young, like under 6 weeks young.

And by “contact to have baby” I assume he means surrogacy and cannot figure out wtf that has to do with anything. Again, depends where you are, and the surrounding laws can be a fucking disaster, but people do get pregnant specifically to have a baby for someone else (some for pay, some for family or friends)

What gets me is if his point was “women have more choices” then just listing birth control options would’ve worked fine, and made sense.

Bad_dog
Bad_dog
7 years ago

That list is a crock of shit, and what makes me even more angry is they are purposely lying to people on campus, some of which may have left home for the first time and know little about sex and contraceptives (because we all know from stories here how well our health classes covered birth control). It’s out right fucking lying. And the thing is women* typically know more about birth control because we are the ones who can get pregnant, while fewer men are knowledgable in all methods. So the MRM is purposely misleading men about their and their partners options…. How “misandric” is that, lying to men? I think a good follow up for feminist or health groups on the UofT campus would be to make posters with a list of REAL birth control options and how to obtain them.

* this should probably say uterus holders instead of just women

pecunium
7 years ago

OMG…. cloudiah, it’s not the pathetic back of crowd shot, but rather the frontal. I assume that’s Esmay looking like the dryer exploded (that or a really bad example of cosplay). It’s not that I want to say, “what a sorry bunch of losers” but when you are out to make an impression, you should strive to make a good one, and visuals are the hook.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

I wish I could say I believed it was, because my interpretation is that it’s not an option because men needz the secks (where women don’t).

Well of course females don’t need teh secks. The fridge doesn’t need it, the dish washer doesn’t need it, neither the oven nor the microwave need it, so why would the female need it? It’s just silly nonsense to suggest that it’s needed!

The real question is (given they obviously hate the idea of children), why did they forget rubber?

The reason for this is twofold. Firstly, it’s about time that females started taking responsibility for their reproductive health, but most importantly it’s because females are filthy and need to clean themselves up, which is why it’s perfectly sensible to have unprotected sex with them – the logic is irrefutable! So long as you don’t… think.

pecunium
7 years ago

I think early 20s suck because we tell people they are adults, and capable, and going to take over the world, and at the height of everything; and they aren’t.

All the responsibilities, but not much money, no access to the levers of power, in minor positions at work, get their opinions discounted (even when riight) etc.

The dissonance is huge.

pecunium
7 years ago

Cassandra: Babies! They’re the newest hot item on eBay.

I wish that were more of a joke.

First of five articles by Reuters on underground trafficking in children in the US. Yahoo and Craiglslist.

pecunium
7 years ago

As to the, “abstinence = N/A” I think the argument is that if a woman says, “he’s the father” then The Courts will find him guilty and make him pay, even if he never had sex with her.

He can only hope she doesn’t add rape to the list, or something.

Ally S
7 years ago

Oh dear, check out the comments on this article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/27/mens-rights-anti-date-rape-college_n_3997953.html?ref=topbar

How about some of the following mandatory 3-hour seminars that slam all the freshman girls: “He Fears You: False Allegations” , “Don´t Victimize Him: Stop Gold Diggers”, “Paternity is His Choice: Don´t Trick Him About Your Birth Control” How do you think those mandatory seminars would go over? How would Metro News Canada and Huffington Post report them? If they interviewed a campus feminist and she said that those seminars “isolate female students” would Huffington Post consider those to be “arguably controversial remarks”. The answer is no. Mandatory coralling of a bunch of kids into an auditorium to shame and put down the ones that are the “bad” gender is wrong. It´s not helpful. It´s not okay. It´s indefensible.

=S

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Mandatory coralling of a bunch of kids into an auditorium to shame and put down the ones that are the “bad” gender is wrong. It´s not helpful. It´s not okay. It´s indefensible.

I’m getting really tired of this shit. I’ve been through similar orientation-type lectures. I never felt like I was being accused of anything or demonised because of my Y chromosome. One thing I did feel was pride – pride that I was attending a university that cared about its students and wanted to build a safe and free environment, in which we could thrive. Positive feelings aside, it actually is helpful – it effects opinions, which effect actions. It is okay, and it’s absolutely defensible. It makes things better for all of us.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
7 years ago

Re: crocs. At first I thought they were amazingly comfortable, but then my arches started falling. It took me a while to figure out the problem. I need more support than crocs give, so back to Birkenstocks for me. When I’m not wearing my ugly shoes with orthotics.

Return baby to hospital. Return the baby to the hospital. O.o The thing that completely boggles my mind, every time, is the complete lack of awareness that MRAs have of anything outside their own tiny brains. Sure, a woman can go through almost a year of pregnancy and recovery, hand the baby *back* to the hospital, and go back to her slutty, whorish life with nary a look back. Just like she bought a pair of shoes, decided they didn’t match her purse after all, and return them.

People don’t *get* babies from the hospital. A hospital is not a baby boutique. Good lord.

Menti
Menti
7 years ago

I wondered who paid expenses for Elam, Esmay and the other avfm folk from far away?

Also, I’m curious, how many people need to attended before a meeting is a rally? I don’t think this counts…

cloudiah
7 years ago

I love the evil Mario Batali comparison! That is Dean Esmay.

In California, the “Safe Haven” (aka Safely Surrendered Baby) law allows either parent to anonymously surrender an infant within 72 hours of birth at certain locations (usually hospitals or fire stations).

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Regarding returning use baby to the hospital, and I get that they aren’t delivered by the stork and don’t magically appear at the hospital, but…

Many countries, and all 50 US states, allow babies (usually very young ones only) to be deposited at certain locations — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_hatch

In theory it’s to prevent, well, things like infanticide, but I’ve never seen stats on whether it does.

Regarding the early 20s thing, oh yeah a full time course load and 20 hour a week min wage job, oodles of “this is the best time of your life!”. No, really, no.

cloudiah
7 years ago

p.s. About the terrible photography, some of that is down to the organizers’ poor understanding of what is called “optics” in USian politics, and some of that is down to the photographer, who seems to be someone who just attends political events to take photographs. There’s a guy in LA who does that, and then contacts the organizations afterwards to sell his photos to them, but he’s actually a professional photographer and does a decent job. Looking through the Toronto photographer’s FB page, he seems to do an equally bad job with every event he photographs.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Sorry to post again, but they’re claiming that 150 “MHRAs” attended the rally. WE HAVE SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPHS, DUDES! If that was 150 people, then I guess JtO really did face down a mob of 30 people.

Oddly, in the comments, Kimski spoke the truth (quoting Winston Churchill):

Never was so much owed by so many to so few.

Emphasis mine.

Fibinachi
7 years ago

Hey, if you look aside from the occasional flares of existential dread and inability to connect with other people plus burgeoning misantrophy, I’m having lots of fun in my early twenties.

It probably helps I’ve long since developed a rock-solid, unflappable god complex that allows me to disregard any indication of my own powerlessness as a momentary setback.

Eh.

To be entirely honest, I think a fair amount of problems stem from always being told that “When you get to age X, you’ll finally do Y!”.

“Just wait till you get to high school, you’ll…”
“Just wait till you get to college, you’ll…”
“Just wait till you get to uni or that job or that place or that thing, you’ll….”
“When you’re married or traveling or living somewhere else or that thing happens, you’ll….”

Being asked to feel like 90 % of your life should be spent waiting for something to happen is kind of a mindkiller.

For what it’s worth, all of you add a bit of joy to my odd days, so you can always have that thought if you wonder if you’ve made a difference today q:

Nitram
Nitram
7 years ago

“I heart FTSU”

Yep, pretty much sums it up. He doesn’t heart men and boys. In fact, he thinks quite lowly of them from what I’ve read. He hearts effing their ess up. “Their” referring to “feminists'” I suppose. So sad he wasn’t able to, as none showed up to have their ess f’d with. So now what? “Uhhh, thanks for coming everyone!” Was the overall jist of their speeches.

Nitram
Nitram
7 years ago

I just realized I have all the freedom in the world to type “fuck” and “shit”. I’ve been around small children all day…the self censoring becomes so automatic. Unless I stub my toe – Much swearing ensues regardless of company.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

I wish two things would happen. I wish Elam would drop the whole pretense of caring about men and just declare himself an anti-Feminist.
And I wish that someone, anyone, would have the decency to get Mr. Esmay some long pants.

pecunium
7 years ago

sarah: That would mean they thought he had grown up.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Nawh, they don’t need to be grown up dress pants, just pants. Fuck, sweatpants would work, jeans would be perfect.

Of course, you pull of a kilt with high socks so idfk, maybe he’d look creepy in anything. (Then again, if you tried that in a tee shirt I doubt it’d work)

cloudiah
7 years ago

The weird thing is that earlier in the rally Dean Esmay was wearing long pants.

augochlorella
7 years ago

112 people? I given speeches on bees and Pokemon to larger audiences.

This just in – I am personally more successful than a historic MRA rally.

dustydeste
dustydeste
7 years ago

I just don’t get how anyone would think it was a good idea, while promoting their “human rights” “movement,” to wear something promoting the fact that they endorse violence against women/feminists/really pretty much any group at all. Then again, I don’t see how people pretending to be a “human rights” “movement” would decide it was a good idea to sell shirts proclaiming that in the first place.

I would say that the whole FTSU thing is about as ignominious as it gets, except these are MRAs and I think we all know that that’s sadly not the case.

Preston
Preston
7 years ago

@MarkB

To try to answer your question, no the current MRA movement has very little connection to the Robert Bly “Iron John” inspired mens movement that was popular with men in the 1990’s. If you recall, those groups that MRA’s like Robert Bly and Sam Keen inspired had mens weekends/workshops where men did bang on drums to connect with their inner feelings and their inner masculine nature. The difference is that these mens groups unlike today’s MRA groups like A Voice for Men did not bash women or feminists at all. I recall reading Sam Keen’s “Fire in the Belly” Bly’s “Iron John” and they just dealt with men getting more in touch with their inner life, their masculinity, and becoming better men. There was none of this hateful misogyny that you see coming out of many of today’s MRA’s.

I am not sure if Paul Elam who I read has been involved with gender issues for many years, was a part of these early mens groups. I guess with the advent of the internet in todays time, it is very easy for misogynists or bitter MRA’s to just spend time hating on the internet rather than doing any real work. It is a bit pathetic that a hateful group like “A Voice for Men” gets as much publicity as it does, while a better representation of an MRA group like http://mankindproject.org/ gets very little publicity.
. Perhaps, the phenomenon that you mentioned where the extreme members of a movement drive out the more moderate members is what is taking place with some mens groups like ” A Voice for Men”

pecunium
7 years ago

Argenti: Of course, you pull of a kilt with high socks so idfk, maybe he’d look creepy in anything. (Then again, if you tried that in a tee shirt I doubt it’d work)

Kilt hose are traditional

When I’m wearing a t-shirt I just slip on my Tevas.

Nawh, they don’t need to be grown up dress pants, just pants.

He’s not out of short pants yet

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Gotcha on the short pants. And I knew kilt hose were traditional, but how many people can actually pull that off for daily wear?

I’d be amazed you own t-shirts, but I almost grabbed a brown one thinking it was my pants (I did manage to not leave anything right? Cuz I’m notorious with my relatives for that, to the point my aunt just designated a drawer for whatever I’d left)

katz
7 years ago

Now I’m kinda disappointed that spermjacking wasn’t on the women’s list.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Cthulhu’s Intern –

I’m sorry this took so long, I was talking to someone (cute), but Kitteh, where in the hell did that person get that picture of me?

Ditto, I’ve been on a massive knitting effort all yesterday. But you’ll love this: it’s from a game called the Call of Cathulhu, where kittehs save the world from ultimate evil.

I swear I’m almost tempted to buy it. There’s a link to it in the Pharyngula thread comments.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Paternity fraud was, maybe it was meant to cover spermjacking? Since “name any man she wants” made the list and those are, uh, the same thing? (Not that paternity fraud is a damned thing, it you get it)

kittehserf
7 years ago

Ack! Shoulda read further. Malitia, yes, that’s it, and thanks for the link! 🙂

Shaun DarthBatman Day
7 years ago

http://techcitement.com/culture/the-best-birth-control-in-the-world-is-for-men/#.UkiWi9K-qFA

Just gonna put this here because the MRA’s haven’t found it yet. And that amuses me.

Also, if this was the rally of the century does that mean they have nothing planned until 2101? Because I can totally support them in that.

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

Guys, seriously, how would you feel about throwing together the requisite funds and purchasing a few pairs of slacks for Mr. Esmay? Because I would totally do it and wrap them with a bow and everything.

kittehserf
7 years ago

I just realized Ftsu stood for that. I didn’t know what it was at first, like it was some Canadian thing. Why do these guys want to look any more like violent sadists than they ready do?

I kept reading it as a Yoda-ish version of STFU, even knowing Paulyboy’s favourite term for promoting violence against women engaging with people whose right to exist he disagrees with.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Argenti – I saw lots of blokes wearing kilts with proper kilt hose (and tees!) here during the last big UK team sport thingy, and they look perfectly fine. It’s not really a matter of pulling it off with those; they’re part of the outfit. If anything, I’d say a kilt can look a little odd worn without them, but that’s just me.

Although I doubt Esmay could manage to wear a kilt and hose and look anything but laughable, but that’s because he’s a shitbag.

Shaenon
7 years ago

Feminism is part of the Organization Called Communism? Didn’t Good just spend the previous thread ranting that feminism is too capitalist? These guys need to get their stories straight.

I know that surrendering a baby at a fire station is an option for men because Walt did it in the previous episode of Breaking Bad. I assume Breaking Bad is a 100% accurate reflection of reality.