So a helpful Twitterer told me that I was a frequent topic of conversation on A Voice for Men’s Honey Badger “radio” show last night — that’s the one hosted by Karen Straughan (Girl Writes What) and Alison Tieman (Typhon Blue) and a newer addition to AVFM’s FeMRA stable named Della Burton. Bored, I went over to take a listen to the archived show. Well, bits and pieces of it, anyway. Life is short, and every minute of this show felt about an hour long.
Anyway, I missed most of whatever it was they said about me, but I did manage to force myself to sit through a good chunk of the segment featuring none other than Nick Reading, the guy who’s running a joke campaign for city council of Edmonton Alberta as the “Patriarchy Party” candidate. You know, the dude we talked about just yesterday.
The gals did their best to play along with his over-the-top patriarchal schtick, proclaiming themselves submissive inferior females unworthy of his manly phallus, and so on. It was as gratingly unfunny as you might imagine, and it went on and on. Even the Honey Badgers, perhaps wondering if this whole segment wasn’t a rather apt metaphor for their own role within A Voice for Men and the Men’s Rights movement at large, couldn’t quite bring themselves to laugh at any of Nick’s, er, humor.
At least not until, about 49 minutes into the show, he brought out the rape jokes.
Take a listen:
Paul “The Thought of Fucking Your Shit Up Gives Me an Erection” Elam, meet Nick “If They Didn’t Scream No, How Else Would I Get an Erection” Reading.
In case you weren’t able to make all that out, due to the clear-as-mud sound engineering job of AVFM’s James Huff — you may remember him as the guy responsible for this amazing rant — I have transcribed the exchange below as best I could, cutting out a few repeated phrases and ignoring some remarks that got buried under other remarks.
Nick Reading: No never means no. It only means yes. That’s an understanding that we have within the patriarchy.
Karen Straughan: It is.
Alison Tieman: That’s true. Actually “no” should be stricken from the English language because it simply makes no sense. How could any woman ever say no to the holy phallus unless she was criminally insane?
Nick: Criminally insane, yes.
Della Burton [?]: Criminally, yes.
Karen: But, but we shouldn’t strike “no” from all the dictionaries and the lexicons of language simply because there are numerous times in the course of a day when a man loves to say “no” to a woman.
Nick: I would almost insist on striking it from the non-male vernacular but if they didn’t scream it, how else would I get an erection?
[Awkward pause]
[Laughter]
Della [?]: Oh my goodness.
Karen: Right, you’re right.
Della: I hadn’t even thought of that.
Karen: So no is still in.
A Voice for Men: Promoting Human Rights, One Rape Joke at a Time
EDITED TO ADD: Below, a video on YouTube about this episode of Honey Badger radio, which not only looks at the show itself but at what was going on in the official chatroom for the show at the time, which turns out to be even creepier than the stuff said by Nick Reading on the show itself.
Along with the standard MRA misogyny from some of AVFM’s regulars, there were bizarre sexualized comments directed at the so-called Honey Badgers themselves: one commenter went on at length about how he wanted to use Karen Straughan’s breast milk in his coffee (and spike her coffee with his semen). Palani provides screenshots and everything. Some of her commentary is a bit problematic — she refers to them as “retards” at one point — but if you’ve got 15 minutes it’s worth a watch.
[VIDEO REMOVED BY REQUEST OF VIDEOMAKER]
auggziliary – I swear that was GWW.
Um, I just watched a YouTube video about the podcast, apparently Karen said the white (hetero? Obviously cis) man is the new black slave.
I’m not going to try to listen to it again, can anyone confirm this?
I’ve heard the claim that Louis C.K. has also pulled off the successful rape joke, though I’ve never actually seen it, so consider this large salt-lick block when evaluating that claim. My point is that yes, rape jokes that punch up are theoretically possible, but the number of comedians who can actually perform them is exceedingly rare. Tosh, of course, manages to make amusing internet videos painfully boring, so the notion that he had a chance in hell of making a successful rape joke was pretty much nil.
And CassandraSays: Yeah, that was the thrust of my opening–the ‘How dare you say I “can’t” say something’ is a massive derail–it has nothing to do with a government Censorship Office.
@baileyrenee
Is it another unsurprising example of GWW purposely misunderstanding the dreaded word “privilege”?
Every time she uses the words “privilege” or “patriarchy” she has to use her stupid little sc(air) quotes.
@freemage: The whole point of my video was that Dane Cook is known as one of the worst mainstream comedians, and for good reason: he doesn’t have a very good style and there have been several probable accusations of plagiarism made towards him. He is, by all measures, a terrible comedian, yet he still managed to make a good rape joke. If he can do it, anyone can.
On what planet? I mean, I get that America is astonishingly regressive in it’s social and economic policies but in no way are white men in an equivalent situation to black slaves. Until you’re routinely whipped to “discipline” you, and murdered for entertainment, you’re not. Although I’m sure they’d point out that rich, white plantation owners were oppressed by their slaves, so I don’t know why I expect them to be reasonable.
I don’t know why people keep insisting that there are no racist overtones in the MRM when you can compare men’s issues, to the made up ones the MRM talk about to the real, actual ones, to motherfucking enslavement of black people. Even the most dramatic interpretation of men’s issues doesn’t come close.
Oh yes, so compassionate these people are, they understand human suffering so well.
Oh and if that’s the Louis C.K. joke you were talking about, that’s an amazing one! What a good message about “blurred lines,” “grey areas,” and all that garbage.
Speaking of war movies… didn’t the allies in WWII basically use what South Park called “operation: stand behind the darkies”? I may be slandering the military leadership of the time, but I seem to remember reading about companies of non-white dudes being put in the most dangerous combat zones… did I actually read that, or have I made it up?
As a side note, Red Tails is a pretty good war movie which doesn’t focus on the white dude brigade. Somehow it was made by George Lucas after the ’90s and doesn’t suck, it’s quite amazing.
@auggziliary
I would say that’s calling out a just-world fallacy, which is a legit thing to do and not the same at all.
But did three (intelligent?) women say on air, that women couldn’t be raped? Is that where they thought they would be whenever it was that they decided anti-feminist-rights was really the hill they wanted to die on? And then continue, joking, about how they all should worship the mighty phallus? At what point do you take stock and mark the lowest the hole is ever going to get?
Idk Athywren, but I frikken hate war movies. I have no desire to watch people get killed, maimed and traumatized, while making war look either somehow glamorous, or like a bygone era. One exception, I did like Jarheads (I got dragged to it and was pleasantly surprised, perhaps because their whole deal was “war is hell”)
Idk, maybe there are others that don’t somehow turn into a happy feel good aren’t you glad this is over? or some weird hero worship…but I haven’t seen ’em.
Sorry, that’s a sorta on topic reply to auggz. It’ say pet peeve, particularly since my father and brother would leave them on after my (WWII veteran) grandfather asked them to turn it off if they didn’t get outvoted by my mother and I.
Oh! That ties in! If your “entertainment” upsets people who’ve experienced it first hand, you fail.
Again, these people – MRAS, FeMRAs, etc. – have sense of humor cancer…
Besides that: gotta love Louis C.K.
Argenti: How about All Quiet on the Western Front?
I found “Welcome to Night Vale” very amusing.
“The old lady from the farm says the Angels appeared, and spoke to her. She said they helped her do several household chores. She is selling a light bulb one of the Angel’s touched.
She says it was the Black one, if that sweetens the deal….”
I agree… I’ve never understood the idea of war movies as entertainment. If I want conflict in my movies, I’ll go for sci-fi or fantasy. I’ve always thought that if a war movie didn’t send you away feeling that war is a thing that should stop today and never restart, it has failed.
@Athywren, yes, the Soviets were documented to have done that, mainly to men from the Central Asian republics.
That pause speaks volumes. These women are playing a role they’re not 100% comfortable with.
I am a fan of war movies, but only the ones where war is made to look very bad & unglamorous. I’ve talked about this with other people, mostly guys, & one man said that one of the movies I liked wasn’t even a war movie. I said that if it has to do with the effects of war, & a war is going on, then it’s a war movie. Lack of action =/= war movie is a misnomer in my book.
“I’ve always thought that if a war movie didn’t send you away feeling that war is a thing that should stop today and never restart, it has failed.”
Agreed.
“Lack of action =/= war movie is a misnomer in my book.”
…does he think that it’s 24/7 fire fights? Cuz, uh, there’s lots of sitting around… (and stealing pieces of the Berlin Wall when you’re supposed to be guarding it!)
Katz — surprisingly, I haven’t seen it. Idk, nobody’s asked if they should put it on? Seeing how it’s a classic, I’d give it a go, just never sought it out or anything.
I don’t know if any of you non-Brits have seen Blackadder but their final series was set in the trenches of WWI and made one of the most poignant war stories ever.
Even though it was a comedy series, the final scene illustrated the futility of war (and, yes, the disposability of working class men at that time) perfectly. I don’t think I know a single person who watched that series and didn’t cry when they went over the top.
Last war movie I saw was War Horse, which was rather spoiled by being drowned in Speilberg sentimentality (the stage play was much better). Only other one that readily comes to mind is The Train. The fact I’ve got it on VHS shows how long ago I saw it!
That final season of Blackadder was amazing.
As far as movies, the most sad one that did the best job of showing what a mess war creates was Grave of the Firelies (animated). If you’ve never seen it and you want to I recommend that you make sure you have a box of tissues within easy reach.
(It’s even more sad when you realize it was based on a true story.)
FireFLIES. I can type good, honest.