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Christopher in Oregon “Deconstructs the Female” and Her Allegedly Very Stinky You-Know-What [UPDATE: Now With Dramatic Reading!]

Georgia O'Keefe: Probably Not Christopher in Oregon's favorite painter
Georgia O’Keeffe: Probably Not Christopher in Oregon’s favorite painter

It’s time for another visit into the fertile mind of Christopher in Oregon, perhaps the most viscerally misogynistic boob I’ve ever written about on this site. Most of the misogynists I write about here like to pretend that they’re not misogynists, or to dress up their misogyny in pseudoscientific terms, talking about the evils of female “hypergamy” or citing dubious evo psych to back up their reprehensible views.

Not old Chris. He’s an old-school, women are bad because their vaginas are stinky, woman-hater. And his 2007 manifesto “Deconstruct the Female,” which I recently found reposted on MarkyMark’s blog, may well be his masterpiece.

Let’s take a look at some of the highlights.

On the whorishness and deceit of all women (except Christopher in Oregon’s mom):

My mother was very vocal about women and their nasty ways. For this I will always be grateful. She told me in no uncertain terms that women were pretty much all whores and liars, and that for all practical purposes, there were no exceptions.

On the Impending Ugliness of All Women:

A woman’s looks almost always head for the gutter as she ages. … I’m not talking when she hits fifty, or even forty.

Thirty. Maybe sooner. …

This is one of the greatest secrets that few people talk about, and young men are almost never warned about. Women get ugly. BUTT UGLY.

Cellulite: Might Literally Eat You

Oh, God. Have you ever walked down the aisle in a store and observed the women waddling along in short pants? Have you ever looked at their legs? Their thighs? A ghastly sight. Cellulite jiggling in every direction. It’s like the old fifties sci-fi movie “The Blob”. Sometimes I’m afraid it’s going to jump out and envelope me.

Breasts: An Affront to All That is Good and True

Contemplate her breasts. Ah, yes. The twin orbs of pleasure that young men so foolishly lust after.

Why?

They’re a couple of sacks of fat with oozing nipples on the end. Very few women’s breasts look like the one’s you see in the movies. Normally, most breasts are NOT attractive at all. They droop. Sometimes they’re not identical. Some look like gourds. When children come along, they sag badly. Very badly. Sometimes down to their belly, which by this time is also sagging in a race to hit the floor. In a woman, everything heads south, my friends. NEVER forget this.

Vaginas: I Smelled One Once, and It Was Very Stinky

I’m going to be blunt. Have you ever smelled a vagina? Seriously. I mean in it’s natural, unwashed state? Really stuck your nose right down there and taken a deep breath?

Once.

My G-d. The stench could have knocked a buzzard off a shit wagon at fifty paces. To this day I swear there was a cloud of flies buzzing around that portal of doom. Sometimes when riding my Harley-Beasties around the rural roads here in Oregon, I encounter dead skunks. Road kill. We have a lot of them here, and when they’ve been baking in the summer sun, you can smell them a long way off even at sixty miles per hour.

Vaginas tend to be even nastier.

Vaginas, Part 2: He’s Not Done Yet

I have long said that a vagina is a cesspool of filth and disease, and that I will never place any part of my anatomy into such a sewer. With the odds that a woman has herpes or HPV, this statement is even more true today.

Nature has a clever trick to warn us of danger. Smell. If you encounter something that smells bad, or rancid, Nature is telling you to get away.

(Danger, danger Will Robinson!)

You are being warned that something is probably carrying disease, and is filthy. Definatley not fit for human consumption.

Consider what comes out of a woman’s vagina when she has a period. It’s not just blood, boys. Other nasty stuff sloughes off. If she has HPV, then dead warts (if she’s being treated) come oozing out. Or dead pre-cancerous lesions. Scabs. Brown slime that reeks.

Vaginas, Part 3: Also, They’re Near the Butt

Think about her rectum. Yep. Her butt-hole. Think about how close it is to her vagina. Do you REALLY want your gonads slapping up against her poop-shute?

Really?

How carefully does she wipe after she uses the toilet? Do you know? Of course not. You’re taking it on faith that she is very sanitary, and we all know we can trust women.

Women: They Also Have Mouths

Look at her pretty face. Think about her mouth. Can you say gingivitus? Tooth decay? Mucous? Plaque? The human mouth is FILTHY, and a woman’s mouth is no exception, bucko. She can also carry Herpes and HPV in her mouth from all those blow jobs she’s been giving out to every guy in town. Blow jobs that mysteriously disappear once married, I might add.

Oh, Eyes Too

Look at her beady little eyes. Will they look so pretty when she is squinting through glasses that are as thick as coke bottle bottoms? When they’re oozing? When they are dull and lifeless as she hits middle age?

Women Over Fifty are Rotting Carcasses

Surely you’ve seen a middle-aged couple walking along. The man is fifty. In shape. Pleasantly greying on the sides of his head. …

Then look at his wife

She looks like an open-casket funeral. The stench of death is about her. He’s just hitting his prime in looks, while she’s flying towards death. Yes, she may outlive him. If you can call occupying a rotting carcass living.

Women: They Also Poop

Women produce the same filth and excretions as men. They require deodrants both for underarms, and even worse, for down below. What happens when a woman uses the toilet? Do you think it comes out smelling like roses? Think again.

Do Not Allow The Human Female to Use You For Breeding Purposes

Consider the other examples in nature of males being used and cast aside after breeding. Once they have served their purpose, they are useless to the female.

Do you think you will be treated any differently when the female has used you for breeding? You will only be around as long as she feels she need you financially. No longer.

Spend Your Life Exercising Furiously Instead

Clear your mind of lust. Avoid looking at women. Avoid porn. Masturbate if needed when yonger- or older. Don’t date. Don’t socialize with women. Concentrate on your hobbies. Your work. Your exercising.

Huh. That’s a lot to take in.

But there’s just one thing. I don’t want to boast, but over the forty-some years of my life I have found my nose in close proximity to a human vagina on more than one occasion, and, um, dude, I think maybe you got a bad one.

For more from Chris, check out the archives.

EDITED TO ADD: And here’s a DRAMATIC READING of the whole manifesto, courtesy of Quietuus!

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emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

LBT, where are you in need of a place to stay? I know people who know people…

bekabot
7 years ago

I’m talking twelve. Maybe sooner.

Well, that’s about the age-limit for Ender Wiggin/Jimmy Neutron Awesomeness, so from a certain perspective it makes sense.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Kitteh — one of the guys at the shop washes his hands BEFORE he pees because he doesn’t want to “get [his] wee-wee dirty” (he swears like I do, wee-wee was smartassery)

Somehow I see CiO having a more extreme view on that. Not only does he need to wash his hands first (and always, not because he’s been repairing engines and they are legitimately gross) but anything that might make him need to wash his bits is disgusting.

Cuz see, I can totally understand scrubbing the grease off your hands before peeing, cuz eww. What I can’t see is being so upset that you might need to apply soap and water to your balls…because of an act you enjoy enough to write this long screed why it isn’t worth enjoying it…

Needing soap and water seems like an entirely justified risk!

kittehserf
7 years ago

P’raps CiO really has a form of hydrophobia. It could explain a lot. 😉

Scene from New Tricks, with Brian and Gerry in a forest. Gerry’s complaining that he can’t go in among the trees and Brian tells him to shut up about his hydrophobia.

Gerry: “It’s hylophobia. Hydrophobia’s mad dogs.”

Brian (darkly): “I know what it means.”

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

bekabot – It’s the end of innocence, I say! Once they turn into teens, they turn into monsters enslaved by biology. *nodnod*

*I don’t actually think like this, this is a joke MRAs*

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: emilygoddess

LBT, where are you in need of a place to stay? I know people who know people…

I have three or four nights I need covered: Sunday, Sept. 29th, through Tuesday Oct. 1st or Wednesday the 2nd. I CAN go back to that fucking closet, but after nine months in that fucking thing, I’d really rather not. We don’t need any care, just a place to sleep and cook.

I’m willing to help ease the burden by cooking for folks or cleaning.

Emmy
Emmy
7 years ago

I too searched google for a woodcut of people pooping because that would be fan-fucking-tastic right about now, but alas all I managed to find was a PDF *describing* woodcuts where people poop and this link: http://www.chipstone.org/publications/CIA/2003/Hume/bigwin/03bw.html to a woodcut of a topless woman pouring the contents of her chamber pot over some bothersome bards. Which I am very pleased with.

By the end of Gein the Lesser’s rant I half expected him to come out and say “And all this is why I take *my* sexual pleasure from the hides of young women, tanned with lye to kill the cooties”.

I did ponder on the issue of this guy’s sexuality though, as Jena did (I’m not equating hating women’s bodies with being gay!), because I got the impression that he was desperately trying to explain to himself why he isn’t attracted to women, like it’s not his fault if he isn’t attracted to women if they are all repulsive freaks, where as men just can’t help getting devilishly handsome over time and ergo it is natural to feel your loins tingling when you think about Mitt Romney.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

one of the guys at the shop washes his hands BEFORE he pees

Actually a bery good thing to do. Penis-havers usually handle themselves when peeing and it’s really not a good idea to do that with dirty hands. Why do you think testicular cancer is an occupational hazard for male chimney sweeps? Clue: it’s not ‘cos they’re sweeping chimneys with their balls.

*This public service message was brought to you by a feminist. Get your head round that, MRAs. A feminist trying to improve the health & lifespan of men! 🙂

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

^ very, even.

juliebreeze
juliebreeze
7 years ago

buttercup q scullpants commented: “Ugh. Yet another MGTOW aversion-therapy manifesto, in which the author tries to convince himself how superior he is to the women who continually reject him. Only instead of going the moral “slutty sluts who slut” route, Christopher obsesses on physical deterioration, as if it’s a process that happens only to women”

I couldn’t agree with you more buttercup as well as the other comments to this thread.
I think just based on perusing and lurking various MGTOW blogs/gender sites that these MGTOW guts like Christopher in Oregon have been so hurt by women in the past whether their mothers/sisters or previous dates that they project anger on all women.
On the corporate team I currently work for I am pretty sure one of my coworkers is MGTOW noticed working on a company project recently that he was very crass or even tried to avoid me. There is one other female besides me on this project. From what I have heard from her was that this individual is lifelong bachelor and is know to have some animosity towards women and is even cold to her. Aside form this coworkers misogynistic views he appears to the world as normal ( in the sense he dresses well is handsome and well spoken).
I guess my point in this is that these MGTOW guys like Christopher in Oregon may not be the “ugly, creepy”, basement dwellers we think the are. Many of them have jobs, interact in society and covertly write misogynistic material on various MRA sites while in the privacy of their own home. The crazy irony of all this stuff, is some of these MGTOW guys could be some sort of boyfriend/marriage material if they would just get appropriate competent therapy.

I mean we’ve all been hurt in life. Who hasn’t even avoided being hurt by the opposite sex. I mean I have been hurt by men in the past but I do not have license to group all men including my current partner as savages. No matter how hurt men like Christopher in Oregon or Marky Mark have been hurt or been traumatized by women in the past they have absolutely no excuse or justification to convey such misogyny or lump all women together. This shouldn’t be difficult to do. I mean from some of the writings I have read from Christopher in Oregon and other MGTOW guys linked to this blog, some of their writing are witty, amusing, and even self deprecating to the point I do not even know if they even believe what they are writing or perhaps they are trying to convince themselves.

A previous poster here on this thread commented that perhaps Christopher in Oregon and some of his MGTOW cohorts are in some type of internal conflict between hating women and also loving or being attracted to them. I am not sure but its a conflict . But the darn shame is it doesn’t have to be this way. I say for what its worth to guys like Christopher in Oregon get some damn quality psychotherapy, forgive the past, and guys like you may ironically turn out to be good boyfriend/husbands to some women out there. You may even like it. It will sure beat sitting in an apartment alone on a weekend night about how you’ve sworn off half the population.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

@juliebreeze It’s a sunny day here so I’d like to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Could you take a little more care in how you express yourself:

1. “female” is an adjective not a noun. that other person on your project team – she was a woman. Using “female” here is frequently a troll red flag as it is othering to women.

2. “he appears to the world as normal”. As apposed to “abnormal”? Reads as ableist, whatever your intentions.

3. “these MGTOW guts[sic] like Christopher in Oregon have been so hurt by women in the past whether their mothers/sisters or previous dates” – No. This is not the fault of women “traumatising” these men, these are not fragile damaged men who have been unjustly injured by women in the past. These are men who are furious that they cannot have whatever they want from women (sex, marriage, grovelling worship), with women having no right of refusal. I would hope they can somehow be happier than they are now but I would prefer they did this as far away from women as possible because, for me, the safety of women comes before these men’s feelings. By a country mile.

Malitia
Malitia
7 years ago

@juliebreeze:

I’m seriously interested: If you have so much sympathy* for these people then why do you comment on this blog and not theirs? ^^?

* Including the inclination to blame the women in their lives, who you know nothing about, for their shortcomings.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Some woman once hurt this guy that julie knows
So fuck all those bitches for all eternity

(Or not, if you’re Christoper in Oregon and scared of the cooties.)

Blue Jean
Blue Jean
7 years ago

So…he’s calling his own mother a whore and a liar? Charming. If all women are liars, how do we know his mom wasn’t lying to him? (I know, I know, it’s an old Captain Kirk trick from “I, Mudd”, but still a good one. Especially if I want to imagine steam coming out of this jerk’s ears as his brain shuts down trying to solve THAT one.

And has anybody broken the news to him that he himself passed through one of those disgusting portals on his way into the world? That he (gasp!) spent some time in one of those disgusting lady persons’ most disgusting parts?

Oh, right. This guy thinks he’s an android. My bad.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

3. “these MGTOW guts[sic] like Christopher in Oregon have been so hurt by women in the past whether their mothers/sisters or previous dates” – No. This is not the fault of women “traumatising” these men, these are not fragile damaged men who have been unjustly injured by women in the past. These are men who are furious that they cannot have whatever they want from women (sex, marriage, grovelling worship), with women having no right of refusal. I would hope they can somehow be happier than they are now but I would prefer they did this as far away from women as possible because, for me, the safety of women comes before these men’s feelings. By a country mile.

I was hoping someone would say that… I kept trying to figure out a way to do it, but I was failing.
I’ve had three seriously bad relationships in my dating life, yet I’ve managed not to become an MRA. I hardly think I’m some kind of intellectual or moral giant to have managed that, it’s just that they were individuals, and not representatives of all women everywhere.

And speaking to them being furious that they can’t have whatever they want from women, I decided last night that it might be fun to talk to people on youtube again (a wise person is me!) so now I’m in a discussion about Elevatorgate (yes, it’s still raging) and how awful Rebecca Watson was for considering her feelings more important than the elevator guy’s desire to communicate with her… because, you know, there had been no opportunity for communication beforehand, and how could anyone be so obtuse as to believe that an invitation for coffee implied sex?
¬_¬

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Elevatorgate certainly has legs, doesn’t it? And so discouraging that supposedly open-minded men (not on youtube, obviously) are so desperate to maintain their “right” to approach and command the attention of any women at any time in any place they choose.

In my youth, everyone knew that an invitation to your room for coffee probably implied sex. We used to joke about how it was the equvalent to being invited to look at “some etchings” (anyone else remember that phrase?)

leftwingfox
7 years ago

We used to joke about how it was the equvalent to being invited to look at “some etchings” (anyone else remember that phrase?)

Heck, I remember Kermit singing about it in the original Muppet Movie.

Elevatorgate was illuminating, much like turning the light on in a roach-ridden kitchen. Similarly, the way so many people grasped for any excuse to hate her after that. “Wah, she called someone’s statement misogynist in a forum where they couldn’t immediately respond. She’s the WORST.”

Before that, I assumed most people were simply ignorant of their sexism. After, it was blindingly obvious how many people were either deeply committed to their sexism, or so in denial about their sexism, they would rather hang out with flag-waving misogynists than engage in a little introspection.

carswell
carswell
7 years ago

Four pages of comments later and I’m still laughing about this

OMG, this dude had the same mother as Carrie.

And the reading is hilarious.

katz
7 years ago

Aside form this coworkers misogynistic views he appears to the world as normal ( in the sense he dresses well is handsome and well spoken).
I guess my point in this is that these MGTOW guys like Christopher in Oregon may not be the “ugly, creepy”, basement dwellers we think the are. Many of them have jobs, interact in society and covertly write misogynistic material on various MRA sites while in the privacy of their own home.

So…they might not just be assholes in the privacy of their own basements. They may go out to be assholes to women in the real world too.

Yay…?

juliebreeze
juliebreeze
7 years ago

Cassandra commented “Roses are red
Violets are blue
Some woman once hurt this guy that julie knows
So fuck all those bitches for all eternity”

Actually, being generally on this site as a lurker your witty poem is why I like reading this blog.
But in reality, I don’t know a darn thing whether these MGTOW guys have been traumatized by women and its not of my business anyway. As I mentioned previously here whether trauma from women is exaggerated or even real does in know possible way justifies the blatant misogyny emanating from some of the MRA websites. However, I was just implying specifically for these MGTOW guys like Christopher.who may have been hurt by a woman in the past perhaps a competent therapist who can help turn around these guys and they may eventually become good husband/boyfriend material. That’s all I implies. My current boyfriend of 5 years had an abusive alcoholic mom but had seen therapy for it initially in college and ACOA meetings and is now is a healed man. I myself as a woman have been hurt by some men in my past but sought help for it and healed.. Some of these MRA links I see on here and the stuff I read is purely vile filled with hate. I don’t know I guess with MGTOW guys I have some compassion and hope given I know the value of addressing our issues and utilizing a therapist if nee be,

Titianblue wrote:

“These are men who are furious that they cannot have whatever they want from women (sex, marriage, grovelling worship), with women having no right of refusal. ”

You are right on the money with that one no man whatsoever can get whatever he wants from a woman with no right of refusal. In many cases that is rape and horrific.

What I mean pertaining to these MGTOW guys like Christopher from Oregon is it just seems some have been hurt by women and they are in conflict between hating women and wanting to love them and heal. They just have not learned or been given the opportunity to heal.

katz wrote So…they might not just be assholes in the privacy of their own basements. They may go out to be assholes to women in the real world too.

I think a lot of these MGTOW guy live “double lives’ At night their on their computers on their MGTOW blogs and railing against how society has wronged them and specifically women.
During the day many of them are bankers, attorneys, architects, accountatnts, tradseman, and probably a myriad of things that we would be surprised.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

@Titianblue: So it’s coffee where you live? It’s tea over here. Or at least it was when I was swinging single. 🙂

katz
7 years ago

I think a lot of these MGTOW guy live “double lives’ At night their on their computers on their MGTOW blogs and railing against how society has wronged them and specifically women.
During the day many of them are bankers, attorneys, architects, accountatnts, tradseman, and probably a myriad of things that we would be surprised.

But the example you gave was a guy who was an asshole to women in real life. So by your example, MGTOWs aren’t totally normal people who would surprise you, but rather they’re exactly the sorts of people you’d expect.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

What I mean pertaining to these MGTOW guys like Christopher from Oregon is it just seems some have been hurt by women and they are in conflict between hating women and wanting to love them and heal. They just have not learned or been given the opportunity to heal.

It’s no one’s job but their to want to learn, grow, and “heal.”

kittehserf
7 years ago

What I mean pertaining to these MGTOW guys like Christopher from Oregon is it just seems some have been hurt by women and they are in conflict between hating women and wanting to love them and heal. They just have not learned or been given the opportunity to heal.

So what’s this “opportunity to heal” supposed to be? They have the same opportunities as any other adult. Assuming they can afford therapy, what’s stopping them from getting it? Oh yeah, they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them, it’s those bitches who are the problem.

I’m really hoping you’re not implying that the “opportunity” is shorthand for a sweet woman to love them and ignore what misogynistic scumbags they are and make them alllll better. Because that’s how it’s reading to me, and as hellkell said, it’s nobody else’s job to do that for them.

I’m really short on compassion for misogynists, same as I’m short on compassion for racists, homophobes, trans* phobes and the like.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

It’s interesting isn’t it that no one says of a racist “Well, they must have been hurt or traumatised by a PoC at some point earlier in life. We should feel sorry for them. They needs a chance to get therapy & heal.

No one says of a homophobe “Well, they must have been hurt or traumatised by an LGBT person at some point earlier in life. We should feel sorry for them. They needs a chance to get therapy & heal.”

Why is it only when it comes to misogynists that we must all be sympathetic and assume that their hatred has a cause other than that they are an unpleasant bigot? And that they can be cured of it as if it is an illness or injury?

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

^grammar fail – note to self: proof read comments before posting. Eats Shoots & Leaves is my bible.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Did you invite the strippers, JFK and Stalin?

On topic…

No, I got nothing. Well, besides comments on Elevatorgate but die already damnit!

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

titianblue – I swear it’s part of the narrative of how MRAs came to be.

The following is a parody.

From the Red Pill Scripture’s Book of Genesis, 1:1-36

In the beginning, a singularity came to be, which soon caused the creation of matter and anti-matter. The anti-matter and the matter came to battle with one another and the matter prevailed. And this was good.

Now there was matter in the form of quirks and other quantum things. So they came together and became atoms, which soon became attracted to other atoms to become greater and greater masses. Some atoms came together in such a way that they fused and made more and more different kinds of matter. And this was good.

Soon, some of these greater masses—named “stars”—began to explode or collapse as they found less and less energy to smash matter together. These star remnants floated around and eventually came together to form things called “planets”. And this was good.

Eventually, a series of reactions came to be on one of these planets known as “Earth”, causing preliminary life to form upon the earth. This preliminary life eventually evolved to become members of various kingdoms: Animalia, Plantae, Fungi, Protista, Archaea, Bacteria. And this was good.

The Kingdom of Animalia/i> separated into various further groups, eventually giving rise to certain animals such as the lobster, the cow, the pig, the horse, the dog, and the human. And this was good.

The humans gave rise to a male and a female, and they came to know each other. Through this, they populated Earth, and became the caregivers of this planet. The female was a gentle caregiver, willing to stay in the kitchen and make sandwiches all day, while the male went out to bring home the bacon. The male ruled over the female and the planet, and they lived together in harmony for centuries. And this was good.

One day, a female decided that she was not going to take part in this harmony anymore. She began to demand more and more autonomy from the male. He, the foolish man, began to grant her this power—feminism—and she soon established a matriarchy. She now ruled over the male and began to exert her power in unwise ways, destroying the harmony that once was there, and hiding it through brainwashing. And this was bad.

In the meanwhile, a bottle of red pills was hidden, open only to the matriarchy’s leaders and forbidden for all males. Soon, the male found this bottle of red pills. Lo and behold, he took one of these red pills, although it had been forbidden, and his eyes were opened to both good and evil. He saw that evil had taken a hold of this world and made it chaotic, and swore to fix this and return to the harmony of the centuries past. And this was good.

This male began to meet with other males, and they all partook of the forbidden red pill, awakening to know what the female matriarchy already knew—that the world that they have lived in was chaotic and disharmonious. They began to come together and attempt to fix this, by defying their female leaders. Some of them ran away, in order to hide themselves from the female gaze. Others stayed in this world, seducing and wrecking the leaders from the inside out. They communicated with each other, creating a place of harmony called the manosphere. And lo and behold, this was good to their eyes.

[I didn’t know how to end this, so I left it as is. If someone has any ideas, send them my way. 🙂 ]

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

DAMN IT HTML TAG FAIL. >:(

Oh well.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

The Oxford comma rocks!

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

a place of harmony called the manosphere

Snrfle!

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

😛 Hey, this is the Red Pill Scriptures!

Oh, I now haz blog. I posted this on said blog, as it SHOULD look. 🙂

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Now there was matter in the form of quirks and other quantum things.

Quirks: The zany quarks!
*cough*
Sorry… couldn’t stop myself. 😛

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Damn you, html tags!

Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

Oops. This is what happens when someone who doesn’t fully understand quantum physics tries to be as accurate as possible with a science-based story. 😛

juliebreeze
juliebreeze
7 years ago

Hellkell commented “It’s no one’s job but theisr to want to learn, grow, and “heal.””

Hellkell your certainy right on this one. When my boyfriend attended his 12 step ACOA group they encouraged him to look in the mirror at his ownself before judging anyone elses actions. To take responsibility for our actions. I think these mgtow guys like Christopher in Oregon must take responsibility for their own action, or how else with they become emotionally free and grow? But on the other hand I would tell these MGTOW guys life does not have to be this way.

Kittesehrf commented”I’m really hoping
hoping you’re not implying that the “opportunity” is shorthand for a sweet woman to love them and ignore what misogynistic scumbags they are and make them alllll better. Because that’s how it’s reading to me, and as hellkell said, it’s nobody else’s job to do that for them”.

No of course not kittehserf I am not implying that. any sweet feminist woman has to love them. Like you implied healing can only come from within oneself. Yet I apologize kittesehrf if some type of “maternal instinct” came out of me perhaps unconsciously to try to help these MGTOW’s. It was certainly not my intention. I do realize though it did come out of me.

Titianblue commented that just as we should not feel sorry for the racist or homophobe we should not feel sorry for the misogynist. In that respect you are correct in all hate has similarities to it. But as a self identified feminist woman for about 17 years the unique divide between a man and woman may be a bit different than other divided I am not sure. I mean even though Feminists and MRA’s are on opposite sides of the political and social spectrum we are still man and women who love and need each other or could individually fall in love with each other,Even a misogynist has a mom and a man hater a dad.It is a very line of love and hate between an ardent mra and feminist It has been a long day I am sorry it is hard to clarify my thoughts on this topic.

Kittehserf no I am surely without a doubt implying for a sweet women to love them and make them all better. Perhaps we should have some sort of feminist outreach to these MGTOW guys? To encourage them that feminism may actually help them. But then again it will probably not make a difference,.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

I’m sure these dudes would just LOVE a feminist outreach. They already piss and moan how feminism isn’t doing enough to help men–like, hello, do you know what feminism is?

These are grown ass men who’re angry that not every woman they meet wants to fuck them/mommy them/be around them.

I’m sure you mean well, but fuck that noise.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Alice, that’s awesome!

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Feminist outreach? Like the way when they have legit complaints we end up, invariably, noting how feminism is already working on that and they get all “but women aren’t suffering enough!!”?

Military is all men? Feminists either want women to be able to serve, or are just against the military entirely (gender moot). Nope, not what they want! They want women to die in equal numbers!

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@juliebreeze

However, I was just implying specifically for these MGTOW guys like Christopher.who may have been hurt by a woman in the past perhaps a competent therapist who can help turn around these guys and they may eventually become good husband/boyfriend material.

eh. I mostly wanna stay out of this, because I have a hard telling what people are getting at from just a few comments, but this stuck out to me. (edit: clearly this changed as I read more, since I did but in, but I type while I read :P)

I mean, it doesn’t really matter if X becomes good ‘husband/boyfriend’ material. If they become less hateful people, yay, but bribing people to be nice with the implication ‘then you’ll get laid wink wink’ seems weird.

@kittehs

I’m really short on compassion for misogynists, same as I’m short on compassion for racists, homophobes, trans* phobes and the like.

Ditto.

@titanblue

It’s interesting isn’t it that no one says of a racist “Well, they must have been hurt or traumatised by a PoC at some point earlier in life

I actually have heard that one :/ Or variants. like ‘well once a black guy was mean to me’. I mean it doesn’t seem like a sexism specific thing.

@juliebreeze

. I mean even though Feminists and MRA’s are on opposite sides of the political and social spectrum we are still man and women who love and need each other or could individually fall in love with each other,Even a misogynist has a mom and a man hater a dad

1) we know misogynists are people. We just think they’re shitty people. Saying someone has a mom/dad doesn’t say anything.
2) idk that whole sentence starting with the ‘man and woman’ bs seems very cis/hetero sexist and I can’t put my finger on why. Thoughts, regulars?

Perhaps we should have some sort of feminist outreach to these MGTOW guys? T

O_o

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

idk, and on ‘feminist outreach’ there already are plenty of 101 sites to help people get into it, its not like the information is hard to find.

Fade
7 years ago

juliebreeze

They just have not learned or been given the opportunity to heal.

okay… so, I’m pretty much without commentary on lots of what your saying (because idk what to say? I mean, yeah, misogynists look just like everyone else?) but, this feels off to me. “Given an opportunity” makes it sound like it’s those ladies’ faults that they weren’t nice enough to them so they could stop hating ladies.

Seconding Kittehserf

Assuming they can afford therapy, what’s stopping them from getting it? Oh yeah, they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them, it’s those bitches who are the problem.

Sure, if you felt irrationally angry around women and knew that it was not our fault it was something with you and did not take your irrational anger out on bystanders, you might want to try to find a way to fix that. But that’s not what I get reading MRAs.

Okay, I saw that you said that’s not what you meant.

Perhaps we should have some sort of feminist outreach to these MGTOW guys?

*physically cringes*

I mean, you said you agreed that it’s no one’s job to help them learn and heal, so why are you suggesting this?

@Titianblue

the sad thing is, I bet there are people trying to justify homophobia and racism with “well, a gay bullied me” or ” a black person hurt my feeling once”

Fade
7 years ago

I want the record to show I didn’t read Marie’s comment before posting XD

kittehserf
7 years ago

@juliebreeze:

But as a self identified feminist woman for about 17 years the unique divide between a man and woman may be a bit different than other divided I am not sure.

What unique divide? That sounds like gender essentialism. You do know that differences within the groups called men and women are far bigger than differences between them, don’t you? Whether it’s physical or mental, the whole “men are like this, women are like that” is rubbish. The data simply doesn’t support it.

As hellkell said (ninjaing me by hours, again!) these guys hate women, feminist or not, and the idea of “feminist outreach” for them is laughable. It goes back to the racism thing: would you suggest an outreach group for PoC to reach the KKK? You’re implying that feminists just haven’t been clear enough, or maybe even nice enough to get through to misogynists. Fuck that noise, indeed. These alleged adults can fuckingwell comprehend things if they want to, but they are willfully ignorant and choose to paint themselves as victims, all because they have some of the power they had over women’s lives.

Feminism has been around for decades just since the second wave, and these gobshites choose to misunderstand or ignore everything it says. How simply does it have to be put for them? What the fuck sort of “outreach” do you think is going to get through to men who complain that they aren’t allowed to “train” and “discipline” women exactly as they would a dog? (Read “abuse” since they’re all about punishment.)

These guys have nothing to offer. They’re utter misogynists. They praise mass murderers (Lepine, Sodini) who targeted women. They praise the idea of bombing courthouses to intimidate judges into punishing women for daring to leave abusive relationships. These men aren’t worth a bucket of cold spit.

@titianblue – exactly what I was thinking this morning. Does anyone, ever, say that PoC should go out and date racists just to show them how wrong they are, to help them heal and grow and give them the “opportunity” to get over their racism?

No, they fucking do not. But women, oh, well, we’re supposed to give up our chances of happiness and our physical safety sucking the dicks of being sweet and lovely to misogynists, so they’ll change their ways.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Twin hive mind alert!!

“2) idk that whole sentence starting with the ‘man and woman’ bs seems very cis/hetero sexist and I can’t put my finger on why. Thoughts, regulars?”

1) I prefer to be refered to as neither a man nor a woman, so I’ve just been nixed from that statement entirely
2) a fair portion of women have perfectly satisfying sex lives without a man being involved, and vice versa
3) the implication of PiV being what everyone wants

For bonus fail — women need men (like fish need bicycles XD)

kittehserf
7 years ago

That should have read “all because they have lost some of the power they had over women’s lives. ” Oh well, at least there were no html disasters that time. 😛

kittehserf
7 years ago

Argenti, have you bought bicycles for your fishies yet? Because of course they need them, and if you fail the Fishinati, I dread to think of the consequences.

OT I introduced the concept of the Furrinati at a family picnic yesternight. Picture if you can Cardinal Richelieu wiping tears from his eyes ‘cos he was laughing so hard. (It was a Furrinati picnic: all the cats and dogs came!)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

You know, I was thinking of asking if anyone had seen any tiny plastic bicycles. I think puff would be amused by such a thing, particularly if he could make the wheel turn.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

This whole ‘people wouldn’t say POC should do ‘x” thing is really rubbing me the wrong way, cuz like it seems like people do? And it also seems like kind of any intentionality fail? Like idk if I’m making any sense here, since I’m not 100% sure what I don’t like about the analogy, but it’s just rubbing me the wrong way and I wanted to throw that out there.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri

1) I prefer to be refered to as neither a man nor a woman, so I’ve just been nixed from that statement entirely
2) a fair portion of women have perfectly satisfying sex lives without a man being involved, and vice versa
3) the implication of PiV being what everyone wants

Thanks for managing to articulate it 🙂 Idk why but for some reason it feels like my brain cannot do words today.