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a voice for men antifeminism doxing drama kings edmonton entitled babies evil women harassment imaginary backwards land men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats not-quite-plausible deniability oppressed white men paul elam playing the victim rape rape culture taking pleasure in women's pain the poster revolution has begun things that aren't fascism

For A Voice for Men, and its Edmonton offshoot, terrifying women is a form of “human rights activism.”

Men's Rights Edmonton activist at work
Men’s Rights Edmonton activist at work

So the self-described “human rights activists” at A Voice for Men have found three more women to harass. Here’s the story, which for many of you will have a depressingly familiar ring:

Members of Men’s Rights Edmonton, a small group that is for all intents and purposes a local chapter of A Voice for Men, has been putting up pictures targeting Lise Gotell, the chair of women’s and gender studies at the University of Alberta. The pictures, which seem inspired by “Wanted” posters of yore, feature a large portrait of Gotell and the caption:

Theft isn’t black. Bank fraud isn’t Jewish. And rape isn’t male.

“Just because you’re paid to demonize men doesn’t mean rape is gendered. Don’t be that bigot.

Gotell’s crime? She was involved in what appears to have been a remarkably effective rape awareness campaign focusing on date rape and featuring the slogan “Don’t Be That Guy.”

A Voice for Men took exception to the campaign because, even thought it did deal with the male victims of rape, it didn’t devote equal time to the problem of evil, false-accusing “girls.” No, really. Men’s Rights Edmonton Activists put up “satirical” versions of the campaign’s posters with the slogan “Don’t Be that Girl.” Now, MR-E and AVFM, at least according to the “argument” advanced on their new poster, seem to be upset that the campaign didn’t devote equal time to the problem of female rapists.  [Note: this paragraph has been corrected; see note at end of piece.]

Gotell spoke out against the posters, and now Men’s Rights Edmonton and AVFM are doing their best to smear her as a “bigot.” Because she doesn’t believe that women are responsible for half of all rapes.

Since this is not actually true — more on this in a later post — it’s hard to see how this makes her a bigot.

As a rule, I don’t support tearing down the posters of one’s ideological enemies. Free speech and all that. But these posters are different: they’re slanderous personal attacks designed to harass an individual. Were they posted in my neighborhood I would tear them down.

And evidently that’s what some people in Edmonton have been doing.

Indeed, one recent night, several members of Men’s Rights Edmonton claim to have caught two women doing just that. While they don’t seem to have video footage of the women tearing down the posters, the MRAs filmed themselves following the women down the street and angrily confronting them for this alleged crime.

They posted the video to YouTube, and AVFM posted it as well, under the typically overheated title “Men’s Rights Edmonton confronts fascists.” They screencapped images of both women from the video and announced their intention to uncover their personal information:

MR-E would like to know the names of these two women so that charges of destruction of property can be laid against them. Also, the world should know the identities of those who seek to silence and censor messages advocating for human rights.

Of course, this is ridiculous. Tearing down a poster that was almost certainly posted illegally in the first place isn’t “destruction of property.” No one is going to be prosecuted for this. The police have better things to do.

But of course that’s not the real intent here. The real intent here is to scare the shit out of these women and other feminists by exposing them to harassment online — like the woman labeled “Big Red” and countless other women who have been targeted by AVFM and other MRAs (sometimes completely erroneously).

AVFM’s Paul Elam gave the game away with an “editor’s note” added to the post:

[A] woman who vandalizes man’s property and then flips him off when he confronts her about it on a dark street at night only acts in this manner because she is certain she has absolutely nothing to fear. Feminists terrified of MHRAs? My ass.

Elam could not have made it any clearer: the main point of this kind of “activism” — which has become AVFM’s bread and butter — is all about intimidating women, not helping men.

AVFM, where terrifying individual women is “human rights activism.”

Here’s the appropriate response to that:

edmontonfingerPN

CORRECTION/CLARIFICATION: I rewrote the paragraph starting with “A Voice for Men took exception,” which confused AVRM/MR-E’s current objection to Gotell’s views with its original “argument” against the “Don’t Be That Guy” campaign.

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cloudiah
11 years ago

Good catch, BlackBloc — I’ve emailed David to make sure he sees your comment.

Trae Dorn
11 years ago

WordPress.com now has a “reblog” function ala tumblr. Druidwinter is literally just using a feature linked att he top of the website if you’re logged in.

Alice Sanguinaria
Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

What is the point of reblogging? Honestly, it’s like stealing one’s blogpost. I mean, you’re crediting the original author, but still. What is the point if you’re going to reblog it with a one-line comment?

cloudiah
11 years ago

Trae Dorn, I don’t think our problem is with the reblog function per se. But if a TERF is using it to support a transphobic site, David may want to ban them.

kittehserf
11 years ago

Yeah, I don’t get the point of reblogging either. It’s one thing if you’re making a substantial post of your own talking about the original, but otherwise, why bother unless you’ve a sizeable readership and want to direct them to blogs worth seeing? And in this instance, I hardly think a TERF would like this place, at least if she’d bothered to read any of the comments.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

Reblogging is for shit on tumblr; I don’t have any interest in it on blogs. DEFINITELY not thrilled about it being claimed by TERFs, but there’s nothing really preventing them from copy-pasting and linking… unless Dave decides to focus on transmisogyny for a while.

Trae Dorn
11 years ago

I didn’t look too deeply at Druidwinter’s site, so I can’t speak to its contents, I was just pointing out manboobz.com itself was what allowed the reblog. I figure WordPress.com is tryingt o ape tumblr since tumblr has skyrocketed in popularity for casual blogging

kittehserf
11 years ago

I took a look down the page; it seems to be largely reblogged TERF shit with the odd transphobic comment in support. Gross.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

Gross. I have no patience for that horseshit. Sylvia Rivera forever.

Ally S
11 years ago

“Sylvia Rivera forever.”

Seconding that!

leftwingfox
11 years ago

I’m going to take a slightly different take on the CDC report. Forgive my rambling.

First, I do think there’s evidence that sexual assault against men is vastly underreported, and the rates of women abusers is generally higher than is considered. Ally Fogg had a pretty substantial collection of papers supporting that, so I’m loathe to dismiss it just because the MRAs are humping it madly.

The major area where this is different is Rape Culture, or rather the part of rape culture that uses the THREAT of rape as a means to control women, to dictate how women specifically should dress, act, or abstain to keep from being raped. Men don’t get that control message.

The other part of rape culture, the part that blurs boundaries and ignores consent, is one that affects both men and women. To that end, the consent campaign done by Lisa Gotell are good for both men and women, and the asshats at AVFM are hurting male victims of sexual assault by removing a major point of the campaign.

Worse, the attitudes they have about “villifying male sexuality” are actively contributing to rape culture against men. Men are portrayed as always willing, always on, and eager to have women actively pursue them. (rape culture)Why, what man wouldn’t like a surprise blow-job?(/rape culture)

When we talk about rape being an act of power and dominance, I think that also needs to be expanded: as an act of power, rape can be an act of entitlement, especially when it comes to acquaintance rape. I think this is a major area where campaigns like “Don’t Be That Guy” can help with, the people who believe that they are entitled to the sexual affections of their date/crush/relative.

I still think the current solutions from feminists who don’t buy into gender essentialism are the best solution: especially the Pro-Consent campaigns and focus on dismantling toxic gender stereotypes that affect everyone. I just want to try and avoid throwing victims under the bus or engaging in reflexive oppression olympics when confronting idiot MRAs looking to justify their misogyny.

Ally S
11 years ago

I do think there’s evidence that sexual assault against men is vastly underreported

What do you mean by “underreported?” Do you mean not reported to the police? If so, the percentage of police reports among a set of rapes reported in the survey has no bearing on whether the number of male rape victims has been underestimated.

If you’re talking about male rape victims not disclosing their experiences as readily as women, it really depends. I’m sure male rape victims are less likely to use the word “rape” to describe their experiences because of bullshit rape culture norms. But if the screening questions in these victimization surveys are worded properly and the results show that rape against men isn’t as common as rape against women, then the assertion that the percentage of rape against men is underestimated is untenable.

katz
11 years ago

I’ll just need to insert a little Pierre into that script. (I’ve been shameless recently about posting comics that Pierre isn’t even in.)

saintnick86
saintnick86
11 years ago

Theft isn’t black. Bank fraud isn’t Jewish. And rape isn’t male.

Just because you’re paid to demonize men doesn’t mean rape is gendered. Don’t be that bigot.

Well, that’s one of the most nonsensical things I’ve ever read.

What the fuck is it with this false equivalency when it comes to rape? Pointing out that cases where men sexually assault women are more prevalent isn’t “misandry”. The demand that rape by women should be considered equal is utterly dumbfounding – especially since it isn’t based on any studies but pure conjecture by obviously biased individuals. So, what, they want people to make that claim like it’s true because…it hurts their feelings? I honestly don’t get it.

It’s no more different than hearing creationists bitch and moan about how “intelligent design” should be considered equally valid to the theory of evolution, despite lacking any evidence from established or even bothering to do a study themselves. Demanding that something be considered a fact doesn’t make it a fact that others “just haven’t accepted yet”, especially when you’ve just pulled it straight from your ass.

Alice Sanguinaria
Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

katz – Go for it. You could probably have Pierre take the child’s part in calling the dudebro a weirdo, or add a part yourself. 😛

seleukosnicator10
11 years ago

Yeah. As a male survivor of sexual violence, I can’t say I’ve EVER felt that the MRM gives a shit about me, except as a blunt object to beat women with. In fact, since a man was my rapist, I get the sense they consider me a failed representative–they need (1) a man who’s a surivor of rape from a woman, and (2) who generalizes that experience to women as a whole. I do not fit their bill.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case

kittehserf
11 years ago

Nick – agreed; but please, not “bitch”. Whine, carp, grizzle, whatever, but not the gendered ones.

Re: Pierre – I was wondering if he could be sitting next to the woman, or maybe accompanying the child (or both? Small child on his lap?). It’d make him a witness rather than the protagonist, but his reactions are always worth seeing.

seleukosnicator10
11 years ago

This link is for anyone who wishes to debunk the MRA claim about 50% of all women are rapists. The video is the refutation from my YouTube Channel. Feel free to use it anyway you wish to.

saintnick86
saintnick86
11 years ago

Nick – agreed; but please, not “bitch”. Whine, carp, grizzle, whatever, but not the gendered ones.

It just felt right at the moment, since that’s what I tend to refer to creationists’ constant dismissal and assault on scientific inquiry (“whining” seems like a massive understatement for the amount of fervor involved in their efforts, as does “carp” and “grizzle” – neither which I ever use because they’re awkward-sounding). I don’t use the phrase most of the time, actually. This is just one of the cases where I do to express my particular disdain.

Otherwise, okay – I’ll keep that in mind for the future.

@seleukosnicator10: Thanks for the link.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Are we really going to have another round of “I can use gendered insults if I want to because they have a special personal significance for me”?

saintnick86
saintnick86
11 years ago

Are we really going to have another round of “I can use gendered insults if I want to because they have a special personal significance for me”?

Jesus Christ, no – I just wanted to clarify why I used it at all.

I also said I’ll keep in mind not to use it here in the future when I post here. That’s it.

Athywren
Athywren
11 years ago

I’ve always thought that when AVFM, GWW, and other MRAs who try to explain why they did their “Don’t Be that Girl” poster parade, the explanations always seems mixed up. What I mean by this is that their arguments come from a lot of different directions and don’t really make sense when brought together.

It’s not really surprising though, is it? Their explanations for everything are mixed up. What is feminism? To the right wing MRAs, it’s a cultural marxist plot to tear our society down!! To the left wing MRAs, it’s neo-nazism, a police state out to control or convict all men! To the religious it’s an atheist plot. To atheists it’s just another religion. Whatever you are, it is the opposite of you, and you must hate and fear it, lest ye be destroyed by it!
Still, the MRAs are the rational kids on the block, so this total consistency failure must be a result of feminism being Frankenstein’s ideology, rather than their scrabbling for post hoc rationalisations and being full of shit at a molecular level. (No, lurking MRA, that’s not an ad hominem attack, it’s just an insult. The difference is quite clear if you think about it.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

The logical consistency failures are what you get when you begin with the premise that X is bad and work backwards from there, instead of reaching the conclusion that X is bad after noticing all the things that make it so.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
11 years ago

What is the point of reblogging? Honestly, it’s like stealing one’s blogpost. I mean, you’re crediting the original author, but still. What is the point if you’re going to reblog it with a one-line comment?

Coverage and traffic spread. It’s essentially someone going “This was cool, read it”, and spreading someone’s message far and wide. It’s a good tool for analysing your posts, as well. If lots of people reblog some thing on your blog, you struck a nerve, and should explore more in that direction.

It boils down to marketing, is what I’m saying.

Well, that’s one of the most nonsensical things I’ve ever read.

Early morning. A PERSON is walking down a street, which is empty except for a VAGUE FIGURE who is currently trying to pin a piece of paper to one of the three lamppost. The other two already have pieces of paper on them, but the messy typography means the audience can’t see what they say. It is also a little misty, so some details are indistinct. Eerie music plays. Possibly this

A PERSON approaches the VAGUE FIGURE, stage right
A.P: “Top of the mornin’ old sport, excuse me, what might be you be doing?”

V.F: “ARRGHE, Millenium-hand-and-shrimp!”

A.P: “I didn’t catch that, could you repeat?”

V.F: “When the bonzai tree blooms in winter the eagle cherries will fall from the sky!”

A.P: “Uh… Are you positively all right, sir?

V.F “No, you’re supposed to say “Shark blood in the jelly pie”. That’s the call sign. We’ve practiced this all week, man. Amateurs”.

A.P “I don’t quite follow.”

V.F: “What are you, new at this? If we don’t code our language, the Feministasiwazinazi conspiracy will be able to uncover our chakra roots and block our manly essence in order to inferioriate our precious bodily fluids. Now grab a poster and shimmy the stickywax on the beeshive, right pronto”

A.P: “Someof that were words I understood, but I’m not entirely sure the rest of it was actually English”

V.F: “If you an’t grok me jive then I’m going to need to spacially relocate to a differentiating position in order to branch our mask signal because the hunter-killer HB’s will probably want to hamster-igate here at some point”

A.P, now visibly quite perplexed“HB’s?”

V.F,Turns around. Is wearing a gnome hat and a giant cut out Duke Nukem paper mask. His coat is made of posters.

V.F, “You know, hard bodies. Are you new at this? Didn’t you get your introduction course in ManSpeak, BallTalk and Grunting? How are we supposed to run a counter insurgency against the vile feminist oppressors if you don’t hit me with the swanpaddle on the left foretemple while jimmybillying? That means communicate, by the way.”

A.P: “Uh, Sir? I’m… a woman”

Fog clears slowly, and the sun comes out. Stage lights reveal that A.P is really A Woman, wearing a pretty flower bonnet.

V.F begins screaming

A Woman: “Sir! Sir! Calm down! Are you okay? Do I need to take you to a hospital? I know first aid. Are you having a stroke? Sir, please!”

V.Fstumbles away from A Woman, posters and glue flying everywhere, while he makes the Warding Gesture of the Erect Penis, the sign of a true MGTOW

V.F: “Out, Andrea! Out, SCUM! I deny you, Progressive One! I am strong in my transphobia! Your allure cannot sap my essence! I shall neither be friendzoned nor fatherjacked! My Elamium levels are too high for thee to match, verily, I shall stand strong against bothe spermbungling, scolding and scatterbrained hamster logic!”

A.W: “You are a very confusing man, but I think you are not in immediate danger, so I’m going to go away now.”

V.F: “Treeglue sap orange sky plum pillow! ORANGE SKY PLUM PILLOW!”

Suddenly, MRA’s spring from the bushes. They spring from the ground. They pop out from behind the two lampposts with a poster. One drops down from the sky

MRAs: “Plum pillow! Poster sniffle wobbleydedook!”

V.F: “Hipsnapperdash!”

A.W,surrounded by MRAs, A Woman is quite confused

A.W: “What the fuck?”

In a rush of activity, the MRA’s grab A Vague Figure and rushes him out, stage left, leaving behind posters and glue. While doing this, they can be heard chanting MGTOW. One stays behind

Remnant MRA: “So, did you know I how I can tell you two were best friends?”

A.W: “what

rMRA: “It’s because you just looked at each other, right there. That tells me you’ve known each other for a long time. Hey, don’t worry, I won’t stay long, but I just gotta ask, do you know how to read a palm? I learned it just yesterday, and I’d love to show you”

A.W: “what

she keeps her hands for herself

rMRA: “As you can see, your love line flows very evenly, which means you’re an intense feng shui enthusiast and enjoy skydiving while cooking pies.”

A.W: “… Fuck this.”

A woman walks away

Remnant MRA watches her go

rMRA: “She’s totally into me. I am so alpha. Well, better put up the rest of these posters.”

rMRA starts getting posters from the ground. He turns to the audience, and they can clearly see the poster for the first time. The heading reads: Don’t Be That Flark above a picture of a apple pie superimposed over a martian landscape

Scene end

saintnick86
saintnick86
11 years ago

I don’t get trying to distinguish between “right-wing” and “left-wing” MRAs when the whole ideology is reactionary regardless of such differences. Feels like a distraction rather than acknowledging complexity.

Kind of reminds me when debating with libertarians, who will bring up the minute differences between one sub-group or another. Nevermind that, despite all that, the ones who have the money and influence (i.e. Koch Bros. and their various institutes) are pushing a corporatist agenda. I was told by one self-proclaimed libertarian that they aren’t “true libertarians” – but I hear the same thing from Christians all the time when it comes to differing sects.