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a voice for men antifeminism doxing drama kings edmonton entitled babies evil women harassment imaginary backwards land men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats not-quite-plausible deniability oppressed white men paul elam playing the victim rape rape culture taking pleasure in women's pain the poster revolution has begun things that aren't fascism

For A Voice for Men, and its Edmonton offshoot, terrifying women is a form of “human rights activism.”

Men's Rights Edmonton activist at work
Men’s Rights Edmonton activist at work

So the self-described “human rights activists” at A Voice for Men have found three more women to harass. Here’s the story, which for many of you will have a depressingly familiar ring:

Members of Men’s Rights Edmonton, a small group that is for all intents and purposes a local chapter of A Voice for Men, has been putting up pictures targeting Lise Gotell, the chair of women’s and gender studies at the University of Alberta. The pictures, which seem inspired by “Wanted” posters of yore, feature a large portrait of Gotell and the caption:

Theft isn’t black. Bank fraud isn’t Jewish. And rape isn’t male.

“Just because you’re paid to demonize men doesn’t mean rape is gendered. Don’t be that bigot.

Gotell’s crime? She was involved in what appears to have been a remarkably effective rape awareness campaign focusing on date rape and featuring the slogan “Don’t Be That Guy.”

A Voice for Men took exception to the campaign because, even thought it did deal with the male victims of rape, it didn’t devote equal time to the problem of evil, false-accusing “girls.” No, really. Men’s Rights Edmonton Activists put up “satirical” versions of the campaign’s posters with the slogan “Don’t Be that Girl.” Now, MR-E and AVFM, at least according to the “argument” advanced on their new poster, seem to be upset that the campaign didn’t devote equal time to the problem of female rapists.  [Note: this paragraph has been corrected; see note at end of piece.]

Gotell spoke out against the posters, and now Men’s Rights Edmonton and AVFM are doing their best to smear her as a “bigot.” Because she doesn’t believe that women are responsible for half of all rapes.

Since this is not actually true — more on this in a later post — it’s hard to see how this makes her a bigot.

As a rule, I don’t support tearing down the posters of one’s ideological enemies. Free speech and all that. But these posters are different: they’re slanderous personal attacks designed to harass an individual. Were they posted in my neighborhood I would tear them down.

And evidently that’s what some people in Edmonton have been doing.

Indeed, one recent night, several members of Men’s Rights Edmonton claim to have caught two women doing just that. While they don’t seem to have video footage of the women tearing down the posters, the MRAs filmed themselves following the women down the street and angrily confronting them for this alleged crime.

They posted the video to YouTube, and AVFM posted it as well, under the typically overheated title “Men’s Rights Edmonton confronts fascists.” They screencapped images of both women from the video and announced their intention to uncover their personal information:

MR-E would like to know the names of these two women so that charges of destruction of property can be laid against them. Also, the world should know the identities of those who seek to silence and censor messages advocating for human rights.

Of course, this is ridiculous. Tearing down a poster that was almost certainly posted illegally in the first place isn’t “destruction of property.” No one is going to be prosecuted for this. The police have better things to do.

But of course that’s not the real intent here. The real intent here is to scare the shit out of these women and other feminists by exposing them to harassment online — like the woman labeled “Big Red” and countless other women who have been targeted by AVFM and other MRAs (sometimes completely erroneously).

AVFM’s Paul Elam gave the game away with an “editor’s note” added to the post:

[A] woman who vandalizes man’s property and then flips him off when he confronts her about it on a dark street at night only acts in this manner because she is certain she has absolutely nothing to fear. Feminists terrified of MHRAs? My ass.

Elam could not have made it any clearer: the main point of this kind of “activism” — which has become AVFM’s bread and butter — is all about intimidating women, not helping men.

AVFM, where terrifying individual women is “human rights activism.”

Here’s the appropriate response to that:

edmontonfingerPN

CORRECTION/CLARIFICATION: I rewrote the paragraph starting with “A Voice for Men took exception,” which confused AVRM/MR-E’s current objection to Gotell’s views with its original “argument” against the “Don’t Be That Guy” campaign.

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Marie
11 years ago

There was no harassment. They have every right to call a public figure a bigot,

And no right to encourage other to dox and attack them.

Jason
Jason
11 years ago

Well, I’ve certainly never sent anyone a rape or death threat. (A “rape threat” would be pretty stupid, since I don’t want to stick my dick in most feminists.) Neither have Paul Elam or any other notable MRA. We’re not responsible for a few internet trolls living in their mom’s basements who love getting a rise out of you prickly feminists by sending you “rape threats.”

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Oh, Jason. You’re cute, tell me another one about the respect the MRM has for anyone who isn’t them.

Jason
Jason
11 years ago

Oh, so “Don’t be that girl” suggests that everyone who reports a rape is lying, but “Don’t be that guy” doesn’t suggest that every man is a rapist?

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Jason: trust, no feminist wants your dick in them. I’m pretty sure even the non-feminists are like, “no thanks, asshole.”

Jason
Jason
11 years ago

Well, I can’t say I respect you guys much… I tried arguing on her respectfully a while ago and that didn’t work too well. So you’ve lost my respect completely. But I do respect your rights. You have every right to speak, no matter how much I disagree with you.

Marie
11 years ago

@jason

Well, I’ve certainly never sent anyone a rape or death threat. (A “rape threat” would be pretty stupid, since I don’t want to stick my dick in most feminists.)

something we can’t prove.

Neither have Paul Elam or any other notable MRA.

followed by something that has been proven. Dude, please try to tune in with reality. Are you talking about the same elam. “fuck their shit up” elam? Get real, bub.

We’re not responsible for a few internet trolls living in their mom’s basements who love getting a rise out of you prickly feminists by sending you “rape threats.”

Nice scare quotes, loser. Also, cue no true scottsman (if I’m using that correctly. But I feel like this guy’s gonna go that path.)

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Jason, it really doesn’t suggest that EVERY man is a rapist. Nuance, you assclowns do not haz it.

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

No. Although I know that a lot of MRAs think so!

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

OH, NO, JASON DOESN’T RESPECT US!!!! HORROR!!!

chibigodzilla
11 years ago

Oh, so “Don’t be that girl” suggests that everyone who reports a rape is lying, but “Don’t be that guy” doesn’t suggest that every man is a rapist?

(emphasis added)

Go on…

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

hellkell – Oh, woe is us, for not having the respect of an ideology who obviously hates us and wishes to shut us down by using adhom attacks and doxxing people!

Jason
Jason
11 years ago

Oh, but “Don’t Be That Girl” DOES suggest that everyone who makes an accusation of rape is lying? Because they’re really the same thing, you know…

Fade
11 years ago

(A “rape threat” would be pretty stupid, since I don’t want to stick my dick in most feminists.

Rape. Not about sex. About power. And the rape threats are often trying to shut women up. You’re misinterpreting that horrible.

@hellkell

Jason, it really doesn’t suggest that EVERY man is a rapist. Nuance, you assclowns do not haz it.

Of course, not every man is a rapist isn’t good enough for MRAs. They want no man to be even accused of rape.

Howard Bannister
11 years ago

“Oh, no, there couldn’t be anything like a patriarchy, so I’ll mock its existence with a mocking word! Haha! Women have always had the vote, been able to own property, all that stuff!”

Things men say that are really dumb, part one.

Parts two thru three billion will commence when Jason starts typing.

Howard Bannister
11 years ago

Oh, but “Don’t Be That Girl” DOES suggest that everyone who makes an accusation of rape is lying? Because they’re really the same thing, you know…

No, they’re not.

They’re really not.

But you’d move heaven and earth to avoid ever thinking about the structural differences, about little things like ‘which one is a real thing in the world,’ stuff like that.

STOP SQUEEZING YOUR BRAIN SO HARD

IT WOULD BE OKAY TO THINK A LITTLE

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

Jason – if you really cared about men being hurt from rape, you’d have “don’t be that girl” posters that state things like “just because he’s been flirting with you doesn’t mean he wants to do it with you, don’t be that girl” — as in, flirting doesn’t equal consent, don’t be that person who decides to rape someone.

You didn’t. Instead, you went the route of “don’t be that girl” posters, where you guys state things like “just because you regret it, doesn’t mean it’s rape, don’t be that girl”, where you imply that women who report rape are just lying their assess off and that false rape accusations are a bigger problem than they actually are.

You don’t want to help men. You want to hurt women.

Fade
11 years ago

Oh, but “Don’t Be That Girl” DOES suggest that everyone who makes an accusation of rape is lying? Because they’re really the same thing, you know…

They are not the same thing because the original was about how men, in a patriarchal society, often feel entitled to women’s bodies. It’s men freaking out when women don’t respond by going out with them when what they do is “nice” because they think basic kindness should get them sex. It’s girls being passed out at a party and boys thinking that means they can rape them. It’s people who see that saying “well, i don’t agree with what they did, but you can’t be so drunk” or “you’re wearing too skimpy clothing they can’t help themselves” or “boys will be boys what did you expect?”

NOBODY SAYS THAT FOR FEMALE RAPISTS.

that is why the posters are not the same thing.

Fade
11 years ago

You didn’t. Instead, you went the route of “don’t be that girl” posters, where you guys state things like “just because you regret it, doesn’t mean it’s rape, don’t be that girl”, where you imply that women who report rape are just lying their assess off and that false rape accusations are a bigger problem than they actually are.

Oh, yuck, I didn’t know the posters were like that. I just assumed they were random posters with “don’t be that girl” and no context written on it just to mock the original ones. *bleh*

Marie
11 years ago

@jason

Oh, so “Don’t be that girl” suggests that everyone who reports a rape is lying, but “Don’t be that guy” doesn’t suggest that every man is a rapist?

::sigh:: does anyone want to deal with this loser? I thought trolls were supposed to be…less boring.

Okay, Jason, let me try to hold your hand ever so gently and explain this to you.

men actually commit most rapes.

men actually commit most rapes

men actually commit most rapes

This isn’t ‘feminist propaganda’, it’s something there have actually been studies on.

Because speaking up about rape and perpetuating rape culture are extremely different things. I know you (like all mras) don’t think rape culture is actually a thing, but I want you to tell me how any of this isn’t rape culture. (and actually read the damn links) (ps to everyone non troll, huge trigger warning for what follows)

very few rapists actually go to jail. There are lots of men who admit to rape, so long as you don’t use the word rape. Girls and women aren’t believed when they say they are raped (and neither are men (or non-binary people), but mras care more about harrassing women than actually helping men.) Hell, people can publish articles in the damn newspaper asking for a mercy call for first time sex offenders. And Texas says it’s okay to shoot an escort if she doesn’t have sex with you.

There is a huge, huge difference between trying to stop rape and perpetuating rape culture, and the mrm took a motorcycle and jumped over it by about 15 miles. Your false equivalency sucks, and only makes you look lazy. Get in check with reality before you spew more bullshit here.

Well, I can’t say I respect you guys much… I tried arguing on her respectfully a while ago and that didn’t work too well. So you’ve lost my respect completely. But I do respect your rights. You have every right to speak, no matter how much I disagree with you.

Again, your false equivalency is pitiful. The right to free speech means the govt. won’t try to censor you, it doesn’t mean you can put crap posters everywhere and expect people not to take them down. (or heck sometimes posters get covered up when other people want to put up more, and that’s not even intentionally censoring.)

ps, don’t kid us, we all know the mrm doesn’t respect anyone’s right to free speech but their own.

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

Fade – I’ve seen the posters that AVFM put out for their “don’t be that girl” campaign. They actually DO say that.

Fade
11 years ago

@alice sanguinaria

uggh… now I”m gonna go find some brainbleach. No matter how low you think the MRAs have sunk, it can always go lower.

Marie
11 years ago

@fade

Of course, not every man is a rapist isn’t good enough for MRAs. They want no man to be even accused of rape.

bingo.

NOBODY SAYS THAT FOR FEMALE RAPISTS.

Ditto. When a man gets raped by a woman it’s a different narrative. Men always want sex, so a man can’t be raped. Women are weaker than men, so she couldn’t have raped him. ect.

Alice Sanguinaria
11 years ago

Fade – You can just say “Alice”, I can figure it out. 😛

And this is just typical MRA stuff, just in poster form and not somewhere on the manosphere. The idea that people making false rape accusations on purpose is the big boogyman of the MRA in regards to rape. That and “what about the menzzzzzzzzzzz”, except that they’ve never really given a shit about male rape victims either.

Note that I said “on purpose”. See Ms. Pervocracy’s post on “Ten Shades of False Rape Accusations”.

cloudiah
11 years ago

Well, I can’t say I respect you guys much… I tried arguing on her respectfully a while ago and that didn’t work too well. So you’ve lost my respect completely.

Our movement has lost a powerful ally. ::shakes head sadly::

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