So over on MPUAForum.com the other day, some of the aspiring master seducers were dicsussing ovulation. You know, like guys do.
No, they haven’t suddenly developed a genuine interest in the literal inner workings of women. It’s just that they think knowing a bit about ovulation will help them get laid. Because according to the tenets of something called Peak Ovulation Theory,
girls will fuck with the bad boy during peak ovulation and the rest of the menstrual cycle, they will get it on with the nice guys.
So … if your style of game is the bad boy vibe, you’ll get to fuck the girl at her horniest days.
Don’t worry: it’s all very scientific. They have studies and everything.
Indeed, we’ve discussed this topic before, and suggested a little mnemonic device to help pickup artists remember that the ladies will be especially open to game when they’re ovulating:
When she’s gettin’ eggy, it’s time to neggy
The only real problem is being able to tell at a glance if a woman is ovulating or not before you lay down your bad boy vibe on her. In other words: how do you fine tune your Ovuladar?
A site moderator with the slightly puzzling nickname poeticlyskuac offered these thoughts:
I don’t look for signs of ovulation… I look for signs a girl is dtf… this could be during ovulation but the point is girls counterfeit the same signals …
studies show girls in some areas genuinely show less clothes during that time of the month especially during the day …
Movement is also something to pay attention to as women who are seeking sexual attention move accordingly … also a woman near ovulation will have clearer skin…
Ok, so if I understand this correctly, a woman who is ovulating, or maybe just horny, will be sashaying around practically naked. And she won’t have pimples.
The point is to look for behavioral patterns… certain things are going to be easy to detect… Other things such as skin redness… pupil size will be harder to tell but they aren’t impossible in a properly lit environment…
Wait. Is the skin supposed to be red or not? Just how big are the pupils supposed to be?
Most women are clueless to the 48 hrs they are ovulating… absolutely clueless.. Very few women know and feel their eggs dropping… Rare ones do and it can be quite painful if you are one of those that detect it… I would never ask a woman if she was ovulation because it’ll be a waste of time…
Also, I’m guessing she might give you this look:
Hellhound offered a simpler way to tell if a woman is ovulating: does she give you a boner? Let’s let him explain the science behind what we might call the Ovuladar in Your Pants.
Men are genetically wired to be providers and protectors while women are genetically wired to be nurturers. When men get horny with a particular woman who makes their dick hard, they have a tendency to spend more money on this woman and become overly protective and jealous. …
Moreover, when your dick gets hard, you are more likely to give women favors. When a woman asks you for favors, note that this behavior is mostly made in an unconscious, instinctive manner, she is actually trying to determine if your dick is getting rock hard for her. Why? …
In simple terms, the woman is genetically probing if you’ll be a good provider to her. Subconsciously, she is testing the hardness of your dick. Since your cock remains hidden inside your pants, she has to instinctively know if your dick gets hard for her by asking you to buy her a drink.
Ok, now that we’ve determined that your boner is a bit of a spendthrift when it comes to boner-inspiring ladies, what does this have to do with ovulation? Hellhound offers a video which presumably explains this all. I didn’t watch it, but let’s just assume that his SCIENCE is as tight as his pants. So on we go to his conclusion:
In summary, for the first indicator of peak ovulation, when your dick gets throbbing rock hard for a hot woman and you get the itch to buy her a drink or coffee, even when she’s not asking you for it, she is likely to be fertile.
Ok, but how do you tell for sure? Luckily for us, Hellhound has some suggestions that seem as ROCK SOLID as his you know what.
You will have a persistent hard on … with a fertile woman. To verify if she’s on her peak ovulation period and aroused enough with your hard on, give her some of these compliance tests:
1. Can I have some of these? However, I left my wallet at home. (Pause and wait if she’ll give you items for free) or…
2. Can I have some of these? I’ll pay you later/tomorrow because I forgot to bring my wallet. (If she complies, you’re good.)
3. I wanted to cook [name recipe here] but I don’t know how… (Pause and then bait her if she’ll volunteer. When she volunteers, isolate to your place. When you’re feeling bold, ask her to buy some of the ingredients.)
A woman’s arousal will escalate when you notice that she keeps on looking at your cock and her ear lobes turn red. This is also a good time for aggressive kino but don’t grab her ass or boobies in public. Isolate.
A woman with red ears who gives you things amd looks at your dick probably likes you. Check. Don’t grab her boobs or butt in public. Check.
Learning about science is fun!
A fellow by the name of Melodical, meanwhile, offers some scientific evidence of his own:
Although it hasn’t been studied in depth there is a school of thought that suggest that a woman at her peak sexual receptivity is more likely to wear the colour red at this time.
Remember the old saying “Red shoes, no knickers”
Most signs of sexual availability in the animal kingdom involve a female displaying red in some form or another, maybe there is still a hardwired neural behaviour in women to do still display this.
But not everyone in the thread has been completely convinced by Peak Ovulation Theory. SexAddict91 offered anecdotal evidence that some women are actually hornier during shark week than egg days:
In my experience, a woman’s horniest days are just before or during menstration. I’ve heard and seen it too many times from women for this not to be true. I’m not just talking an average level of horny, I’m talking super and aggressive horny.
But he’s open to evidence that challenges his observations.
If science does not support this, my only other logical conclusion is that they are horny throughout the cycle or at peek ovulation but because just before or during flow time they really can’t have sex even when enticed, it becomes much more relevant in their memory. ( as in, they want sex more because they can’t have it)
TheFury, meanwhile, argued that Peak Ovulation Theory is not particularly useful for pickup artists as a practical matter, responding to Hellhound with this less-than-supportive comment:
All this shit is worthless in practice as I have said 100x and said again here. Anyways, you are clearly a delusional idiot, keep sniffing women’s panties and measuring their skin temperature.
In a followup comment he added,
It is clear that I am right and that women being ovulating has little practical relevance for a PUA. Much more relevant is when a woman is having her period because many men won’t sleep with her then or she will be too embarrassed to sleep with you on her period. That is actually practical. This garbage is not. Plain and simple. …
Bottom line, you clearly do not know the difference between practical and statistically significant/some garbage someone wrote in an abstract or some tiny difference observed in a study. The most likely reason for this is that you have no actual experience with women other than watching porno and reading studies or jerking off to studies about ovulation, because if you had experience with women you would know nothing you linked to has almost any practical implication.
But how can anyone doubt such clear and incontrovertible data for Peak Ovulation as this chart here, posted to the discussion by Hellhound himself?
That’s the kind of SCIENCE that gives Pickup Artists boners.
NOTE: I found my way to this wondrous discussion through a tweet from PUA.txt on Twitter, an account that regularly posts ridiculous real quotes from ridiculous real PUAs. It’s an account that’s well worth following if you’re on Twitter!
Cassandra — I was thinking that’s the only part they got right. If she’s staring at your genital region, and still talking to you, she may want to see what your pants are hiding. Cuz, you know, people don’t generally stare at genitals.
And my earlobes have 2g holes in them. What’s an ability to see straight through zir ears mean? (Besides that I like freaking people out with my ability to stick a q-tip through my ear)
Argenti – that’s or she’s thinking,
“Ewww, what’s he spilled there?
… That is a spill, isn’t it?”
“What’s an ability to see straight through zir ears mean? ”
A really limited and unhelpful super-power?
It’s what made George Washington so grumpy.
TW: violence, not saving British children.
I’m pretty sure this one has a blue collar.
Thanks Wereterrier!
Still makes no sense to me though… What is this graph supposed to mean? I guess the white dots represent normal time and the black dots represent ovulation.
Hellhound tells us that it means that 20 women out of 54 (all undergrad volunteers) were found to be attracted to other men than their boyfriends! What? Women are *never* attracted to other men than their boyfriend. That’s science too!
The study about women moving more has been debunked (tiny sample size, poor methodology and no controls) and could not be replicated. The one about men tipping ovulating strippers more has also been debunked (I think this is the study he is referring to. I’m too lazy to link, though (not that PUAs read studies anyway).
The regression lines in the graph are pretty poor, with outliers skewing the results, particularly of ‘white’. It appears that the white dots include periods, which would obviously alter results (from a sample size of 54, if I am to believe Hellhound). I can’t imagine this relationship has 5% or less probability of happening by chance (standard threshold).
Gahhh, my least favourite Dr Who outfit ever!
Though it’d be worth wearing just to piss off any MRAs/PUAs in the vicinity.
Mine, however, looks like this.
Love your avatar, Wereterrier!
I think you’re onto something there, kitteh. It’s the little-known phase of the month in which the uterine lining turns to steel and sheds waves of disgust.
Hey look, more ::words:: that are synonyms for assault and/or abuse. Their ingenuity in making up new definitions to define things as old as civilization never ceases to amaze me.
Honestly, the only reason they care about ovulation, is because it means the girl is still “young enough” to breed, which means (by their twisted logic) she’s still biotruths attractive. So they have to know her ovulation status. However, also by twisted logic, they a) don’t want kids and b) want to have sex with as many women as possible so they really ought to not want to have anyone ovulating while they’re having sex with them. But then, they can’t really get out of the biotruths “if she’s fertile, she desperately needs sperm” and clearly she’s most fertile when she’s ovulating! It’s such a merry-go-round it makes my head spin just watching the mental circles they run in… And then I puke. Because ew. So much ew.
@ Kitteh
That sounds like *at least* 2,000 symmetry point (on the Hellhound scale)!
Other than that, that Abbott guy creeps me out. Not that Rudd sounded so great, but…
I tweeted this picture to Australia when Abbott got elected. http://www.agingdisgracefullynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2001/01/Cat_Judge.jpg
Yours makes a whole lot more sense.
Sixie’s coat is basically Three’s/Four’s on acid. I blame John Nathan Turner for the coat. Somehow he decided that “no fashion sense” meant “sear the retinas of all who behold.”
But I think it is endearing in its own way. ‘Course, I think Six is awesome after he gets over his regeneration mania. And Colin Baker is so devoted to the franchise, too.
Enough people liked him at the time that Baker get inundated with cat pins to wear on his lapel.
I had an idea for starting a blog along those lines, aimed at women and laying out the different lines, routines, techniques, behaviors that PUAs use when they try to meet women. Ultimately it would serve both to educate women so that they could spot PUAs and either avoid them, or at least know what kind of guy they’re dealing with, but also it might deter guys from trying to use PUA tactics in the first place, since a lot of them are already worried about getting publicly “outed” as PUAs, and women being more aware of the tactics would increase the likelihood of them getting exposed for using cheesy “seduction techniques” they learned from some huckster’s $27 ebook.
Maude LL, I don’t know if I have the energy to actually read the study that what’s-his-nuts is trying to use to support or refute whatever it is that he is trying to support or refute (I’m getting sleepy). It’s pretty short. It’s from 2005. When I was in grad school, we weren’t supposed to use articles that were more than three years old.
I did read enough to discover that my interpretation of what the study meant by “symmetry” was wrong. They literally mean facial symmetry, and they are trying to show that women are inclined to select for superior genes when they are fertile. Now, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I find Jensen Ackles extremely attractive throughout my cycle.
OMG becausescience — me too! I wonder what a good name for it would be…
Kittehserf:
The strange thing is that I’ve managed to avoid a lot of sexists too, I figure most of the people I know are pretty liberal. At most I’ve had some guys get mad at me if I rejected them (no matter how nicely) for a date. But that’s about all I can really remember. As silly as it sounds, it’s the internet that gets me paranoid sometimes. If my life was exactly the same but I only used internet for email, I wouldn’t have thought such ideas still existed. Surprised to hear about Australia too, I though with Julia Gillard it’d not be so bad, sorry to hear that 🙁
Argenti:
I’ve been reading and lurking mostly lol. I guess I was a little burnt out + busy with life offline and trying to avoid manosphere stuff when I can. How are the fishies??
That is priceless. So… it shows the relationship between face symmetry and checking other guys out?
Again, to me, ‘sample of 54 couples’ says it all. They can draw statistical inference from a small sample like this, all recruited at the University of Mexico.
I am kind of ecstatic that they don’t want to be outed. It would make it all the more fun to out them.
Agreed. That is not a statistically significant sample.
I never know whether symmetry in faces is only meant to be bilateral, but this is all the symmetry I need in any case.
Baker gets cat lapel pins? Cool! (I quit watching after Peri left the series, and wasn’t taken with him before then, so really don’t know anything much of his history.)
Maude – yeah, Rudd wasn’t my idea of a good PM, either (though he bounced Howard in 2007, o year of happy memory) but Abbott is filth. Seriously, this guy assaulted women in his uni days and he’s the sort of Catholic that gives Catholicism a bad name.
Love the judgy kitty! 😀
Hi Manboobzers, I’m a rare poster but a faithful lurker. I’m not only post-menopause, I actually had my ovaries surgically removed last year, when I found out I and all the women in my family had the BRCA-2 genetic mutation that increases the risk of ovarian cancer to 80%. And have I got news for all you youngsters!: Women’s sexual desire has exactly nothing to do with hormones, the menstrual cycle, “alpha” men, evopsych bullshit in general, etc. It doesn’t even have anything to do with whether or not you have ovaries.
“Female” sexual desire (normal people should read this as “women’s”) has 100% to do with the mind and heart of the woman doing the desiring, and the man or woman she feels that desire for. It has 0% to do with ovulation, hormones, the menstrual cycle, animal husbandry, animal breeding or any other way that humans control animals. Howdy, Evopsych Ovulation Fetishists!
Here’s the bad news: women, in general and overall, be they young or old, are Really Not Into You. No, Really. Not Even A Little Bit.
Here’s the good news: The fact that we all hate you will definitely reduce the likelihood that you will ever reproduce. This is a huge plus for the human race in general.
Quackers – “As silly as it sounds, it’s the internet that gets me paranoid sometimes. If my life was exactly the same but I only used internet for email, I wouldn’t have thought such ideas still existed.”
Not silly at all, I’m in a similar situation. I’d long held the thought that there are men who don’t see women as human, for whom everything we do is wrong – I mean that society’s rigged so everything a woman does is wrong and punishable in some way. Seeing there are scumbags who really do spell it out confirmed my feelings on the matter.
Re Australia: unfortunately PM Gillard got pushed out of office in July, because Labor got the idea in its head that having a Bloke In Charge was their only chance at the election (which was just over a week ago). But having a woman as PM didn’t mean anything much; indeed Gillard’s most famous speech was about misogyny. She was bombarded with grotesque, sexualised abuse all through her terms, including a rape joke (“So when Julia says no, she doesn’t mean no?” about policy changes) from our now Prime Minister, Tony Abbott.
Our politicians don’t make the “legitimate rape” level of comments you USians get from the douchecanoes in the Republican party, but there are a lot of misogynists among them, the women included. We now have one – ONE – woman in a 19-member Cabinet (the inner ruling group). I loved a suggestion in the Age this morning, that it brings to mind a certain line about “No taxation without representation.” Imagine if every woman in Australia could withold all her tax …
Hi, BigKitty! Did you ever get your welcome package?
::high fives:: from menopausalish person. 🙂
This should be engraved on a plaque. A gold one*. In big letters. Then there should be copies displayed everywhere PUAs might go.
*Not liquid gold, for obvious reasons.
I can’t believe they truly believe that women checking guys other then their boyfriends out means that those women are interested in being unfaithful… like, seriously? they don’t believe for even a minute that sometimes people just like to look? or even fantasize? without having any serious intention of being unfaithful? (I actually can believe it, because they believe all sorts of things incongruent with reality, but still…)
I bet it’d freak them out that a woman might be looking at a guy’s CLOTHES, not the guy wearing them, and thinking that boyfriend/husband/fwb might like them. I do that often enough. “Look at that jacket/jumper/hat you’d look great in those I know I know you wouldn’t wear them but still …”
* or kilt. I think he’d look stunning in a kilt, he’s not going to do it, so all I can do is dream. 🙂
Oh, and before I forget, here’s another thing for rightwing assholes to hate: I’m an older cis lady and I feel a lot of kinship with trans women (who also don’t have ovaries, but are still women,just like me).
“I bet it’d freak them out that a woman might be looking at a guy’s CLOTHES”
He did imply that women are looking at his crotch. I’m willing to be he’s just unzipped and the woman he’s trying to grope is too embarrassed to tell him that his undies are showing.