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Is that an egg in your ovary or are you just happy to see me?

These gals are totally ovulating, for sure.
These gals are totally ovulating, for sure.

So over on MPUAForum.com the other day, some of the aspiring master seducers were dicsussing ovulation. You know, like guys do.

No, they haven’t suddenly developed a genuine interest in the literal inner workings of women. It’s just that they think knowing a bit about ovulation will help them get laid. Because according to the tenets of something called Peak Ovulation Theory,

girls will fuck with the bad boy during peak ovulation and the rest of the menstrual cycle, they will get it on with the nice guys.

So … if your style of game is the bad boy vibe, you’ll get to fuck the girl at her horniest days.

Don’t worry: it’s all very scientific. They have studies and everything.

Indeed, we’ve discussed this topic before, and suggested a little mnemonic device to help pickup artists remember that the ladies will be especially open to game when they’re ovulating:

When she’s gettin’ eggy, it’s time to neggy

The only real problem is being able to tell at a glance if a woman is ovulating or not before you lay down your bad boy vibe on her. In other words: how do you fine tune your Ovuladar?

A site moderator with the slightly puzzling nickname poeticlyskuac offered these thoughts:

I don’t look for signs of ovulation… I look for signs a girl is dtf… this could be during ovulation but the point is girls counterfeit the same signals  …

studies show girls in some areas genuinely show less clothes during that time of the month especially during the day …

Movement is also something to pay attention to as women who are seeking sexual attention move accordingly … also a woman near ovulation will have clearer skin…

Ok, so if I understand this correctly, a woman who is ovulating, or maybe just horny, will be sashaying around practically naked. And she won’t have pimples.

The point is to look for behavioral patterns… certain things are going to be easy to detect… Other things such as skin redness… pupil size will be harder to tell but they aren’t impossible in a properly lit environment…

Wait. Is the skin supposed to be red or not? Just how big are the pupils supposed to be?

Most women are clueless to the 48 hrs they are ovulating… absolutely clueless.. Very few women know and feel their eggs dropping… Rare ones do and it can be quite painful if you are one of those that detect it… I would never ask a woman if she was ovulation because it’ll be a waste of time…

Also, I’m guessing she might give you this look:

Hellhound offered a simpler way to tell if a woman is ovulating: does she give you a boner? Let’s let him explain the science behind what we might call the Ovuladar in Your Pants.

Men are genetically wired to be providers and protectors while women are genetically wired to be nurturers. When men get horny with a particular woman who makes their dick hard, they have a tendency to spend more money on this woman and become overly protective and jealous. …

Moreover, when your dick gets hard, you are more likely to give women favors. When a woman asks you for favors, note that this behavior is mostly made in an unconscious, instinctive manner, she is actually trying to determine if your dick is getting rock hard for her. Why? …

In simple terms, the woman is genetically probing if you’ll be a good provider to her. Subconsciously, she is testing the hardness of your dick. Since your cock remains hidden inside your pants, she has to instinctively know if your dick gets hard for her by asking you to buy her a drink.

Ok, now that we’ve determined that your boner is a bit of a spendthrift when it comes to boner-inspiring ladies, what does this have to do with ovulation? Hellhound offers a video which presumably explains this all. I didn’t watch it, but let’s just assume that his SCIENCE is as tight as his pants. So on we go to his conclusion:

In summary, for the first indicator of peak ovulation, when your dick gets throbbing rock hard for a hot woman and you get the itch to buy her a drink or coffee, even when she’s not asking you for it, she is likely to be fertile.

Ok, but how do you tell for sure? Luckily for us, Hellhound has some suggestions that seem as ROCK SOLID as his you know what.

You will have a persistent hard on … with a fertile woman. To verify if she’s on her peak ovulation period and aroused enough with your hard on, give her some of these compliance tests:

1. Can I have some of these? However, I left my wallet at home. (Pause and wait if she’ll give you items for free) or…

2. Can I have some of these? I’ll pay you later/tomorrow because I forgot to bring my wallet. (If she complies, you’re good.)

3. I wanted to cook [name recipe here] but I don’t know how… (Pause and then bait her if she’ll volunteer. When she volunteers, isolate to your place. When you’re feeling bold, ask her to buy some of the ingredients.)

A woman’s arousal will escalate when you notice that she keeps on looking at your cock and her ear lobes turn red. This is also a good time for aggressive kino but don’t grab her ass or boobies in public. Isolate.

A woman with red ears who gives you things amd looks at your dick probably likes you. Check. Don’t grab her boobs or butt in public. Check.

Learning about science is fun!

A fellow by the name of Melodical, meanwhile, offers some scientific evidence of his own:

Although it hasn’t been studied in depth there is a school of thought that suggest that a woman at her peak sexual receptivity is more likely to wear the colour red at this time.

Remember the old saying “Red shoes, no knickers”

Most signs of sexual availability in the animal kingdom involve a female displaying red in some form or another, maybe there is still a hardwired neural behaviour in women to do still display this.

But not everyone in the thread has been completely convinced by Peak Ovulation Theory. SexAddict91 offered anecdotal evidence that some women are actually hornier during shark week than egg days:

In my experience, a woman’s horniest days are just before or during menstration. I’ve heard and seen it too many times from women for this not to be true. I’m not just talking an average level of horny, I’m talking super and aggressive horny.

But he’s open to evidence that challenges his observations.

If science does not support this, my only other logical conclusion is that they are horny throughout the cycle or at peek ovulation but because just before or during flow time they really can’t have sex even when enticed, it becomes much more relevant in their memory. ( as in, they want sex more because they can’t have it)

TheFury, meanwhile, argued that Peak Ovulation Theory is not particularly useful for pickup artists as a practical matter, responding to Hellhound with this less-than-supportive comment:

All this shit is worthless in practice as I have said 100x and said again here. Anyways, you are clearly a delusional idiot, keep sniffing women’s panties and measuring their skin temperature.

In a followup comment he added,

It is clear that I am right and that women being ovulating has little practical relevance for a PUA. Much more relevant is when a woman is having her period because many men won’t sleep with her then or she will be too embarrassed to sleep with you on her period. That is actually practical. This garbage is not. Plain and simple. …

Bottom line, you clearly do not know the difference between practical and statistically significant/some garbage someone wrote in an abstract or some tiny difference observed in a study. The most likely reason for this is that you have no actual experience with women other than watching porno and reading studies or jerking off to studies about ovulation, because if you had experience with women you would know nothing you linked to has almost any practical implication.

But how can anyone doubt such clear and incontrovertible data for Peak Ovulation as this chart here, posted to the discussion by Hellhound himself?

Gangestad et al Scatter Plot

That’s the kind of SCIENCE that gives Pickup Artists boners.

NOTE: I found my way to this wondrous discussion through a tweet from PUA.txt on Twitter, an account that regularly posts ridiculous real quotes from ridiculous real PUAs. It’s an account that’s well worth following if you’re on Twitter!

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wereterrier
wereterrier
8 years ago

I am happy and relieved that my days as a “target” are over. Of course, I had PBS (Permanent Bitch Shield) when I was of “target” age (18-24 or whatever), so I was never a good mark.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
8 years ago

You will have a persistent hard on … with a fertile woman. To verify if she’s on her peak ovulation period and aroused enough with your hard on, give her some of these compliance tests:

1. Can I have some of these? However, I left my wallet at home. (Pause and wait if she’ll give you items for free) or…

It’s like English, because I recognize the words. My dictionary gives me explanations for what the words are. But, unlike English, when put together in a sentence, this statement makes no sense.

To find out if someone is aroused enough with my hard on, I need to ask them for free stuff.

the trick to finding out if someone is ovulating is asking for free things

My brain. MY BRAIN.

NonServiam
NonServiam
8 years ago

Every time the advice is “isolate”, I shudder.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
8 years ago

This is also a good time for aggressive kino but don’t grab her ass or boobies in public. Isolate.

More rape advice. Charming.

kirbywarp
8 years ago

@Fibinachi:

It’s simplicity in itself!

1. Women look for hard dicks when ovulating.
2. Men who are hard are more likely to give gifts.
3. Since women can’t see erections directly, they look for gift giving instead.
4. Fuck steps 1-3, make the dude ask the woman for free things to see if they’re horny enough to do them.

That’s the best I got. I think the key is when he says “To verify if she’s on her peak ovulation period and aroused enough with your hard on.” Basically, a woman’s horniness is on a meter. Below a certain threshold, she’ll demand free stuff from you. Above that threshold, she’ll be horny enough to give you free stuff.

Science!

@NonServian:

Christ… I know, right? All they need is one more line: “And she’ll comply, because of the implication.”

@OP:

Heh. I clicked through and watched Hellhound’s video. Surprise surprise, it has nothing to do with fertility. Like… literally nothing. The premise is “What do women really feel about big dicks?” In it, an actor pretends to be a waitor and wears tight pants with a fake dick prominantly outlined.

Actually, the video is kinda a perfect example of MRA dissonence, although I have no idea who decided to shoot it. Every time a woman was caught staring at the waitor, the camera zoomed in onto the crotch as if it were some irrisistable eye candy. One woman (the only woman who talked at any length in the video) said she enjoyed it, but expressed concern that it was probably embarassing for others.

It ends with women apparently answering “what do you think of big dicks.” Routinely, every single one says size doesn’t matter, but the waitor’s was frightening/might matter/disgusting/etc.

Pretty basic, right? It’s pretty rude to walk around with your dick showing. The women were pretty obviously embarassed, and thought the guy should be embarassed about it too.

Yet the video seems to come to the conclusion that women are obviously turned on by big dicks. Look how much they stared (on film, anyway)! Obviously they were staring because they couldn’t help it, exactly like how guys are caught staring at boobs! The end was sort of a wink-wink-nudge-nudge, almost as if they were trying to paint the responses of “size doesn’t matter, but…” as “but that big is too damn sexy” rather than “but that was too big.”

FalconMRA
8 years ago

There is an obvious downside to Peak Ovulation Therapy that everybody seems to be missing.

BEWARE MY FELLOW PUAS

BEWARE

Because hey, why go to all that bother to kino elevate and insulate and shoot-test and stuff and then wear a condom?

sarahlizhousespouse
8 years ago

@FalconMRA

Your babies are so sweet.

@Wereterrier

Who coined the term PBS (Permanent Bitch Shield)?

pecunium
8 years ago

I’m aware of all the reasons people might not want to have sex during menses. I was just amused (because I can’t really say croggled) that this dudes ideas about it were so blithely translated to, “women can’t get laid during their period”.

Because I know better.

Falconer
8 years ago

Thank you, sarahlizhousespouse!

I am enjoying their lack of object permanence because every time I come home from work and they see me, they give me these great big surprised faces and humongous grins because for them I have suddenly popped out of nowhere after disappearing a long time ago.

It makes me feel like a wizard.

Of course the humongous grins and the ensuing pick-me-up wriggles are adorable.

They continue to teeth without a fuss, which makes me worried that they’re saving up the yelling.

Falconer
8 years ago

Sadly, I have the impression that one of the presuppositions behind Peak Ovulation Theory is that women are not in control of their drives, but instead act on instinct, while Big Manly Men With Humongous Penises Brains act only on the coldest rationalizations calculations.

Probably this is an obvious underpinning to everybody but me.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

1: The “isolate” shit made me ragefroth. I seriously want to inflict bodily harm on this shitbag.

2: Kittehserf, thank you for that Patrician pic–it’s glorious!

3: Since other folks were asking for some definitions earlier–what’s ‘kino’? I get ‘game’, and it seems to be the ‘more aggressive’ class of it (see: point 1). But is there an actual metaphor in there to the gambling game?

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Oh, and finally–welcome to all the new arrivals! Always good to have a few more friendly faces about!

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

Kino means touch.

It literally just means touch them.

sarahlizhousespouse
8 years ago

They have to be younger than 8 months, then. Oh, the games you can play with babies at that age! Keek!

Falconer
8 years ago

They will be 7 months exactly shortly after 10 am EST tomorrow.

They don’t seem to be going for peekaboo. Beloved was trying it with our daughter, asking “Where’s Mommy? Where’s Mommy? There she is!” and it seemed to actually distress our son, who started looking around for Mommy and wurbling a bit. So she stopped.

And yeah, there’s no way they could have understood Beloved at all.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Howard: I… Really? Just… They had to make up a name for that? I mean, it’s creepy and nasty and obviously they are sad, pathetic little people, but then they had to go and use some other word for it entirely?

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

I’m reposting something written in the Sinfest forums, because it made me giggle and smile, and reminds me of some of our trolls:

here we see the Pedantasaurus dunning-krugerii, a slow-witted herbivore that tries to use brittle spine plates and an enlarged, thick skull to appear more intimidating than it actually is…

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

the woman is genetically probing…she has to instinctively know if your dick gets hard for her by asking you to buy her a drink.

Just dropping words like “genetically” and “instinctively” into your word salad doesn’t make it science.

Also, as someone else pointed out, isn’t this all kind of moot in the age of hormonal birth control? I wouldn’t be surprised if most of them don’t even know how it works (this is the same culture where men think more sex = more pills), but surely someone on that message board has bothered to learn this?

Anyway, did anyone else notice (1) the number of times he mentions one’s dick getting hard and (2) the increasing number of words used to describe it? IDK what it means, but it’s kinda funny.

Fairly sure that most women actually do want sex sometimes, but usually from people who aren’t jerks. Which, of course, excludes them.

Eh, some women are looking for truly NSA one-nighters, in which case a PUA could be a good bet, since he’s pretty much guaranteed to be on the same page.

I think it was no white anything after Labor Day, but according to What Not To Wear, that’s not even true anymore. Also, your belt and shoes no longer have to match.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

Well, see, it sounds creepy when you say ‘start escalating your touches, getting further and further behind their boundaries and into their personal space. Get them used to you trangressing every boundary!’

And ‘kino escalation’ sounds all science-y.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

To me, it sounds more like a way to lose ever-increasing amounts of money in a casino.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

emilygoddess: The only problem with using PUAs as your NSA one-nighters is that the PUAs tend to be the sort that want to violate your boundaries even if you DO want to have sex with them. Thus, they’ll pressure you for specific acts, or they’ll try to talk you out of condom use, etc. Unless a woman is actually looking for not merely NSA but also ‘no boundaries at all’, a PUA’s likely to disappoint, at best.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

And wear brown pants if you’re going to eat barbecue.

Or when being attacked by pirates.

cheesy “seduction techniques” they learned from some huckster’s $27 ebook

Only $27? Mystery is selling his latest for $97 (for just the ebook) to $400 (for the ebook, tree book, and DVD). But that’s not about PUA, it’s about ~the Venusian Arts~

I’ve cramps that go from about waist level to ankles

You too? God, I hated that. I look forward to getting my uterus yanked out some day.

women are obviously turned on by big dicks. Look how much they stared (on film, anyway)!

Does that mean I’m aroused by kittens and (metaphorical) train wrecks?

@Freemage: I’m not recommending it, but it seems like the most plausible explanation for why their tricks occasionally seem to work.

As for “isolate”: there’s not enough “NOPE” in the world.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
8 years ago

Howard: I… Really? Just… They had to make up a name for that? I mean, it’s creepy and nasty and obviously they are sad, pathetic little people, but then they had to go and use some other word for it entirely?

Well, technically, it’s not a made up word. It’s just a stupid mispelling for kinesthetic, so I guess they call it “kino” becaus if they started saying Kine, sooner or later, every PuA would be playing World of Darkness instead of being out sarging.

And the world would be a better place.

@Fibinachi:

It’s simplicity in itself!

1. Women look for hard dicks when ovulating.
2. Men who are hard are more likely to give gifts.
3. Since women can’t see erections directly, they look for gift giving instead.
4. Fuck steps 1-3, make the dude ask the woman for free things to see if they’re horny enough to do them.

That’s the best I got. I think the key is when he says “To verify if she’s on her peak ovulation period and aroused enough with your hard on.” Basically, a woman’s horniness is on a meter. Below a certain threshold, she’ll demand free stuff from you. Above that threshold, she’ll be horny enough to give you free stuff.

Science!

But that’s wrong.
And… and terrible.
And wrong.

And terrible!

TERRIWONG.
WONGRIBLE.

pecunium
8 years ago

It’s not just wrong, it’s stupid.

And yes, “kino” is about testing to see if you can invade her space, get away with ignoring her boundaries. It’s probing behavior, meant to see if greater violations can be successful.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Emily: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

…and let’s just go ahead and make the link between boundary-probing behavior and rape culture.

Or as he says here…

What’s the purpose of this kind of deliberate boundary-testing? To find out if she can be talked out of no. That’s how the Creepy Dom picks targets. That’s how many predators pick targets. In matters of sexual assault, and also intimate partner violence (which overlap a great deal), the boundary violations start relatively small — the inappropriate picture, the “courtesy” expressed as mandate.

They don’t stay small. They escalate, slowly but surely.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

(that should be ‘make the link explicit — I think I messed up my bolding tags there)

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Well, technically, it’s not a made up word. It’s just a stupid mispelling for kinesthetic, so I guess they call it “kino” becaus if they started saying Kine, sooner or later, every PuA would be playing World of Darkness instead of being out sarging.

And the world would be a better place.”

TRUFAX!

And I put VtM:B on google docs as a zip file if anyone wants to email me for a link (this nym at gmail) (runs under wine, though you’re on your own for that, mac I can link you to the wrapper I’m using, XP definitely a go, vista in theory but I never tried, no clue on win7)

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
8 years ago

VtM:B as in Bloodlines? Oh, neat-o. I’d take you up on it, except I have it installed this very moment.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
8 years ago

Also, @Howard Bannister, thank you for that link. Interesting reading.

Marie
Marie
8 years ago

@falconer

D’aww. Your babies are always so cute.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Fibinachi — the one and only! Curious, what are you running it under? I switched to OSX from XP and thus can’t verify that it works on anything newer.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
8 years ago

Now I kind of imagine a PUA dalek going:

INITIATE. ESCALATE. ISOLATE. COPULATE.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
8 years ago

Windows 7, Home Premium, 64 Bit (6.1, Build 7601).

Heavily modded, modified version with all fan patches and a few mods.

Does crash occasionally, and there’s some stuttering, but it seems to work more or less fine.

I believe http://www.patches-scrolls.com/vampire_bloodlines.php offers patches of the unofficial variety which rapidly and greatly enhance functionality up to and including Windows 7.

katz
8 years ago

Or when being attacked by pirates.

Everyone should be aware that this joke has been immortalized in song.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Well yeah, it crashes occasionally. Anyone who makes that game run perfectly deserves a medal! Glad to hear it can work under win7 though (and the zip file is patched through wesp5.something, so it’s as stable as I can expect for running it on a mac)

Falconer
8 years ago

I’ve tried Bloodlines on Vista, and it seems to work. Admittedly, I only got as far as the main menu before I had to hold a baby and needed something I could do with just the mouse.

It’s an FPS/RPG mashup, right? Do I need two hands to play? I was presuming that I do.

@Marie: thank you very much! They are also very sweet, everyone tells me. I haven’t crossed them yet (read: taken something away from them) so they may yet throw a tantrum in the store because I won’t buy them candy.

Falconer
8 years ago

Now I kind of imagine a PUA dalek going:

INITIATE. ESCALATE. ISOLATE. COPULATE.

The last time I went all Dalek on this site, I had to hand out the brain bleach by the gallon.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“It’s an FPS/RPG mashup, right? Do I need two hands to play? I was presuming that I do.”

Yeah, sorta. It’s an RPG, but you can play FPS if you want (doesn’t change the dialogs other than the ones with people discussing weapons and combat, still all the plot and such). And the tutorial is lots of talking, so you can get at least part way through one handed, beyond that you’ll need two hands generally speaking (I do a lot of the running one handed, but yeah, you’ll want two hands, neither of them with cute baby hands)

Falconer
8 years ago

Let me help you play, daddy! Give me that, daddy! Baby spit is good for that, daddy!

Falconer
8 years ago

Also, Baldur’s Gate you can play one-handed, but my style is to strike the space bar and pause the game with the blinding strike of the cobra because I need time to choose: Do I FWAKOOM the oncoming orcs, or just NEEEEEEM them?

Also I tend to wander around with six bows (or maybe four bows and two slings) ready, so as soon as something pops up at the edge of vision I stop the party and let the target have it.

I was having fun with arrows of fireball until I blasted some hostages with them.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Lol, I lost a humanity point last night by accidentally killing an innocent. So I know how that goes.

Outside combat you could potentially play one handed, though I don’t recommend it. Combat you definitely want one hand on the mouse and one on the move keys (a, s, d, w to move, mouse to look and strike // cast [the best tank builds depend on vampire disciplines, so casting those, not Mage casting])

katz
8 years ago

Baldur’s Gate you can play one-handed

Ew.

Falconer
8 years ago

not like that not like that

Falconer
8 years ago

From what I know about WoD Mage casting, I imagine Bloodlines had to cut some corners in implementing Paradox, if they included it at all.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Paradox itself wouldn’t be all that difficult (determining Vulgarity would be a bit more tricky), but I honestly can’t see true Mage-style dynamic magic working at all in a computer game system.

(For those who are on the outside looking in at this point: In oWoD Mage, the system was literally designed to encompass any particular effect a player could come up with. Often, there would be multiple options to achieve similar results. Because of this, there was often great disagreement among the fanbase about how a particular effect would be formed, and what component abilities [called Spheres, of which there were 9] were required to do it. Mage is an awesome system, but it really, really needs a fairly strong degree of communication between player and ST: very often, there’s a lot of negotiation going on.)

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

It’s not Mage mage, just Tremere, and yes it is limited to five specific effects (though two are spending blood to get more blood and fucking awesome, as is blood shield). No ST debate if being able to make an object weighing more than you move through the air means you can fly. (I said “sure, enjoy the blood hunt”)

Falconer
8 years ago

No ST debate if being able to make an object weighing more than you move through the air means you can fly.

… Okay, I’m going back to D&D where the spells are nailed down and can’t be twisted that much.

Falconer
8 years ago

(I said “sure, enjoy the blood hunt”)

Is that like the Dark Hunt where the faeries chase you down with hounds and things? Probably not.

Falconer
8 years ago

… Okay, I’m going back to D&D where the spells are nailed down and can’t be twisted that much.

And for my pains I’m now trying to work out how to handle fantasy mecha.

Go big or go home, I say.