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a woman is always to blame antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? boner rage gross incompetence hundreds of upvotes imaginary oppression men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA MRA comics cavalcade oppressed men oppressed white men playing the victim racism rape culture reddit straw feminists victim blaming

Men’s Rights Kontroversial Komik Kavalkade

Want to earn yourself some quick karma points on Reddit? It’s easy! Just post some terrible misogynistic comic and wait for the inevitable upvotes. Like this one, which combines some standard-issue victim-blaming rape apologism with a bit of racism and serves it all up in terribly drawn cartoon form, and collect dozens of upvotes!

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Or this one, which also, er, touches on issues of race. Did I mention something about dozens of upvotes? This one got hundreds!

fTTXOEh

Yes, that’s right, a barely coherent cartoon protesting “race-mixing” did indeed get hundreds of upvotes on the Men’s Rights subreddit.

EDITED TO ADD: Ah; the reason it’s so incoherent is that it’s a racist remake of an anti-racist cartoon.

And this one got thousands of upvotes for its amazing insights into gender relations.

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Officially, according to the Men’s Rights subreddit sidebar, it’s against the rules there to post “rage comics, or other low-effort image posts. Mods may remove these at their discretion.” Apparently these all count as “high-effort.”

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Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“I’d hope it’s not real malachite, since that stuff is toxic.”

Oh it’s plenty toxic. Jury’s out on carcinogenic effect, but definitely don’t want to play with it while pregnant (nor, it seems, for extended periods before becoming pregnant)…stuff’s nasty. It kills a parasite that encysts in fish skin and gills, it needs to be nasty. (It’s incredibly toxic to fry and scaleless fish too actually, it’s a fine line with certain species and I’m being extremely careful with puff’s tank, nothing in there has been in another tank that’s held fish [some of it was in the snail tank, but they, afaik, can’t carry it]…so unless he came with a sub click infection, he’s never getting it)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Sub click? Fuck you autocorrect I said “subclinical”, latent would also be an acceptable term. Sub click is not!

Morrigan
7 years ago

@Marie
She is a great character!
@Myoo
Thank you very much. I had this in mind: http://manboobz.com/2012/02/19/mens-rights-in-the-real-world-no-one-showed-up-to-the-event-but-organizers-say-the-lack-of-attendance-is-not-due-to-a-lack-of-interest/
@Alice
I changed my intention (>.>) to what cloudiah said, so I do not know what you are talking about!
Thank you, I am glad you enjoyed it.

I am not sure if my skin is sensitive, just dry. Constantly dry. Raising my body temperature causes me to itch uncontrollably everywhere until I cool off or.break a sweat. After exercising regularly, though, that seems to go away. So, I suppose it is ultimately my fault if it continues. Haha.
Actually, that does not seem related to dry skin. I have no idea why it happens, then.

Skybison
Skybison
7 years ago

Isn’t telling someone who just got robbed “you should have just locked your door” kind of douchey itself? Who hasn’t forgotten to lock their car’s door at least once?

The second just doesn’t make any sense, although I totally am changing my user name to Pony Loving Mangina.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I kind of wish that I liked MLP just because it seems to annoy so many conservatives so much, but alas it’s just too cutesy for me.

Mongoose
Mongoose
7 years ago

As a proud member of The League of Short People Who Have Trouble Reaching Stuff, why only yesterday I asked the fella if he could get me my suitcase from the top of the wardrobe. In order to avoid the inevitable power disparity that would result from this request, I promptly made him a sandwich.

Also, won’t that guy in the first comic feel really awful when the woman says: “My husband locked me out of the house because I wouldn’t make him a sandwich.”
Seriously, the poor woman is in her underthings!

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“Who hasn’t forgotten to lock their car’s door at least once?”

Me! (I don’t drive)

And yet I think it’d be a douche move.

Walter
Walter
7 years ago

The first cartoon reminded me of this guy I knew in high school who one day came into school bragging about how he had stolen some stuff from some guys car. He claimed that he did it to teach the guy a lesson, because the car owner had left his window open. He said that he only took a few CDs and then left a note saying something like the car owner was lucky that he didn’t steal anything of value and that he should close his window next time. I thought it was a dick move and horribly immoral, but most everyone seemed to think that he had done some great and righteous act.

I don’t understand the kind of moral system that puts more blame on the victim of a crime than the perpetrators, but it seems to be a kind of thinking that’s pretty popular in the USA.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

Wow, look at how differently they drew the two crime victims, too. The man is just standing there, turned towards the people he’s talking to (and away from the audience)…a normal person. The woman is wearing a bikini, facing the audience and posed in a sexualized position with her arms behind herself, jutting her chest forward. That alone says a lot about the person who drew this comic, before we even get to the racist buzzwords included in the text. The male gaze, it is a thing.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

Also, I rearrange the furniture in my apartment all on my own, thank you very much. I also assembled the majority of it myself (many bookshelves, two entertainment centers, a microwave cart, two computer desks, end tables, and a dresser). I can also change tires and the oil in my car.

In very general terms, it tends to be people who are most invested in “traditional gender roles” who behave like the woman in the third comic. You know who else is invested in maintaining traditional gender roles? MRAs. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

Falconer
7 years ago

I kind of wish that I liked MLP just because it seems to annoy so many conservatives so much, but alas it’s just too cutesy for me.

I thought it was generally a good show for children. The core group has a nice variety of personality types and goals, and the jokes are simple without being too obvious.

Some of the episodes I find problematic, but this is probably not the time or place.

What I have totally failed to do is attempt to appropriate it for myself and exclude people who aren’t like me. I know, I’m an awful failure of a nerdboy.

Falconer
7 years ago

And anything that annoys conservatives and is not harmful of itself is all right by me.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

@Walter

He had to teach that “sucker” a lesson because a note saying, “be careful about leaving your windows open” wouldn’t be enough.
Yeah, that guy just wanted to steal and then crow about it and get some attention. What a loser.

Falconer
7 years ago

He had to teach that “sucker” a lesson because a note saying, “be careful about leaving your windows open” wouldn’t be enough.

Some asshole yanked my wallet out of my pocket at school once. To be fair, I’d stuck it in a breast pocket in a fit of absent-mindedness.

Same asshole stole money from my brother by asking him for change and then claiming he’d given my brother the amount he asked for (i.e., for change for a $20 he gave $5 and claimed he’d given $20).

Falconer
7 years ago

Or the guy who apparently blacked out Detroit on September 11 this year “to teach a lesson.”

Karalora
Karalora
7 years ago

@Falconer,

That guy needs to be arraigned yesterday. He should be hit with, at the very least, a charge of reckless endangerment multiplied by the number of people in the affected area.

Falconer
7 years ago

He should be hit with, at the very least, a charge of reckless endangerment multiplied by the number of people in the affected area.

… Falcon not count that high. 🙁

cloudiah
7 years ago

More MRA-endorsed cartoonage in context here.

OP is a link to a fairly simplistic cartoon trying to explain the difference between equality and justice by showing how equal treatment does not always promote fair outcomes.

IMULTRAHARDCORE shows that, in MRA-land, fair treatment equates to cutting off peoples’ legs. Or something. It’s a little unclear.

My favorite comment in the thread comes from croc-o-dile:

I’m not letting any feminist have any of my crates.

FEMINISTS STOLE MY ICE CREAM!

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Back when I was a kid, I shared a car with our younger brother, and he never, EVER locked the doors. It was maddening, and I made a habit of never leaving anything in the car because I was positive it’d get stolen, and I couldn’t come out multiple times a day just to neurotically check the car locks.

Aaaaand of course eventually someone DID break into our car. Only it was one of our brother’s drunk friends, who just moved seats and mirrors around and slopped liquor everywhere, making the car reek of booze.

Our brother was furious, mostly because he worried our parents would think he’d been drinking and driving. And I was like, “THIS IS WHY YOU LOCK THE FUCKING CAR.”

But that was me literally reminding him multiple times, and him always shrugging me off with, “Aw, nothing’s going to happen.” And it was still a dick move on the part of our brother’s friend.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Regarding stealing from the car with the open windows — the apt above mine in my first apt had an unsecured wireless printer, I was always tempted to print, in huge font, “put a password on me!” to the thing. Because yeah, leaving a note about stupidity isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Stealing to make the point is.

freemage
7 years ago

Argenti: I’ve occasionally heard of people tapping into open Wi-Fi networks and changing the name to something like, “Learntosetapassword”. This sort of thing amuses me. MRA-style victim-blaming? Not so much.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Yeah, I got told that if I did it that it’d be white hat hacking (as opposed to black hat) cuz it’s harmless and good advice. But I knew that my printer randomly spitting out paper would freak me right the fuck out, so I didn’t do it.

I had my wifi “unsecured” in that you could connect to the network itself without a password, the router and such were behind a password wall, but borrowing my bandwidth was fine by me (I had pretty good speeds and no cap so I figured I’d leave it open for anyone who needed access since the building was almost entirely broke college students [and recent immigrants, some of whom had adorable children *squee*])

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

I consider open networks to be gifts from above; I can’t imagine punishing folks for bestowing them upon me.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Yeah I kept the router itself password protected, but the wireless was open. No cost to me, potential benefit to others, so why not?

freemage
7 years ago

I…

Shit.

One more in the “how fucked up can this planet be” column….

TW for rape, abuse, overt misogyny:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/09/christopher_jackson_branded_hi.php

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Whaaaat? MRAs churning out unthinking nonsense in support of an ideology that barely stands up to even cursory investigation? I R shockface!

So I’ve never actually been to America and don’t know much about Detroit. I’m guessing, from that top comic, that Robocop was actually a documentary?
Seriously though, it might be dumb to leave your car door unlocked, but it’s still a crime to steal from you just because you were dumb. Even if you wave your laptop under a gang of evil street youths and chant “nerny nerny nerr nerr, you can’t steal my laptop!” it would still be a crime if they grabbed it out of your hand… that’s just how the law works. Your insurance might refuse to pay out, but the police still investigate. And that’s before you consider that the majority of rape victims are not people walking around the horrifying warzone that is all of Detroit in the twilight hours before dawn in nothing but their underwear, but people, outdoors and in, clothed, unclothed, sexily or plainly dressed at times of the day between a minute past midnight and midnight inclusive. Rargh.
Not surprised by the total lack of rationality though… I accidentally loaded a 2010 article from this site, rather than the front page, where there was a comment asking “Can you acknowledge that without feminism, men like Andy Worhal would still be alive[?]” That’s right, kids. Cardiac arrhythmia: feminism’s #1 weapon against all mankind!!!

Anyway… hello again, everyone.

Pear_tree
Pear_tree
7 years ago

Cassandra, when I lived in America I found the idea that the idea that white/Asian women shouldn’t be out at night (after about 10pm) was very prominent. This concept was so strong that you could start a conversation with nearly any other international student about how dangerous/wrong it was to go out at night in the US. I think the perception of Indian students was that India was more dangerous for women but safer for men. Obviously this doesn’t necessarily reflect reality of safety but how ‘wrong’ the concept of going out at night was perceived.

When I took the bus at night (9pm) I found that the majority of fellow travellers were black women who were returning from work. It was sort of depressing how privileged the concept of not being out at night was. I doubt anyone told the women returning from work not to go out at night, mainly because they’d realize how stupid it was. I was lucky to be able to not go out at night, but not everyone had that option. In the end friends and colleagues managed to convince me going to the mall at night was a bad idea but I still often walked to restaurants. Either way being out after it got me dark made me feel guilty.

What I don’t understand is that in general most men want mixed company at bars and clubs, why do they want to basically force women to lock themselves in their houses when it gets dark? The right to go out of your house at night seems a basic one. We don’t live in a country with a permanent curfew.

The racism of the comic isn’t surprising since the idea of stranger rape is often caught in racist stereotypes. However I thought the statistics suggested rape tended to be an in-race crime. I sometimes think there must be some gain to someone for building the perception of black men as dangerous.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

http://manboobz.com/2013/09/15/mens-rights-kontroversial-komik-kavalkade/

Whaaaat? MRAs churning out unthinking nonsense in support of an ideology that barely stands up to even cursory investigation? I R shockface!

So I’ve never actually been to America and don’t know much about Detroit. I’m guessing, from that top comic, that Robocop was actually a documentary?
Seriously though, it might be dumb to leave your car door unlocked, but it’s still a crime to steal from you just because you were dumb. Even if you wave your laptop under a gang of evil street youths and chant “nerny nerny nerr nerr, you can’t steal my laptop!” it would still be a crime if they grabbed it out of your hand… that’s just how the law works. Your insurance might refuse to pay out, but the police still investigate. And that’s before you consider that the majority of rape victims are not people walking around the horrifying warzone that is all of Detroit in the twilight hours before dawn in nothing but their underwear, but people, outdoors and in, clothed, unclothed, sexily or plainly dressed at times of the day between a minute past midnight and midnight inclusive. Rargh.
Not surprised by the total lack of rationality though… I accidentally loaded a 2010 article from this site, rather than the front page, where there was a comment asking “Can you acknowledge that without feminism, men like Andy Worhal would still be alive[?]” That’s right, kids. Cardiac arrhythmia: feminism’s #1 weapon against all mankind!!!

Anyway… hello again, everyone.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

No, I don’t know why I linked to this page at the top of that comment either…

Bob Dole
Bob Dole
7 years ago
baileyrenee
7 years ago

I worked as a bartender and server for years, and had to work until 1 a.m. to 4:30 a.m.. It’s supposed to be the law to provide cab fare for people who work past a certain time, but some employers are shady as hell and simply don’t do it. Even if I was always guaranteed cab fare after 1 a.m. (I think that was when we were supposed to get it), I still had to wait outside for 10 – 40 minutes (weekends are awful for cabs), and 11 p.m. or midnight would still be considered pretty late for a lot of people.

So excuse me for living, you fucking assholes. Not everyone gets a job with nice respectable daylight hours.

freemage
7 years ago

First off, I just read back far enough in the comments of the open thread to see that Falconer already linked to the story I linked to, so sorry for the re-post of some truly appalling shit.

Bob Dole: I clicked before realizing it was the Spearhead. It was nice to see that the ONLY comment was one challenging him, though.

Pear Tree:

What I don’t understand is that in general most men want mixed company at bars and clubs, why do they want to basically force women to lock themselves in their houses when it gets dark? The right to go out of your house at night seems a basic one. We don’t live in a country with a permanent curfew.

The goal is that they (the misogynists) want women at the clubs and bars solely for the pleasure of the men present; women’s desires should have no role in it. So if a woman goes to a club or bar, she’s supposed to ‘expect’ harassment and assault–and from that comes the notion that she should accept it, as well. Or rather, that she’s already accepted it, since she’s there. This relieves the men from responsibility for their actions.

baileyrenee
7 years ago

I worded that oddly, but I think everyone knows what I mean… I would work until anywhere between 1 a.m. – 4 a.m. (that was also worded oddly, how the hell do I type this!?).

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

I have gotten the “don’t go out at night” messages, but I generally chose not to obey them. First, because in Texas in high summer, fuck you, sun up means heat stroke. Second, sometimes I worked late. Third… fuck it, in Mass in the depth of winter, it gets dark at 3PM. It’s absurd.

There was still always this edge though, to the point that I was nervous walking around in the dark woods of New Zealand alone, even though I absolutely, beyond all doubt knew there were only maybe five people in that square mile. The worst I had to worry about was accidentally stepping on a pheasant or something; this was the kind of area where people just left their car keys on the hood so as not to misplace them.

augochlorella
7 years ago

Holy shit, they actually changed the race of the guy in the second comic from black to white.

Bob Dole, I’m actually saving that article so I can show my novice debaters how not to form an argument. My roommate and I had a good laugh over it.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

If I were the creator of the original comic I’d be pretty pissed off someone did this to my work.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Wow. Just wow.
Regarding first comic: Y’know, this is massively frustrating to me, because its not like these rape myths haven’t been debunked. Multiple times. Again and again. It’s not like a massive number of scholarly articles and studies haven’t been published. And people are still like, “She did (fill in the blank), so Of course she go raped.” Aargh! Rape is not a “natural consequence” of dressing a certain way or being out after dark! It is a crime committed by a bad person! Why can’t people get this!

2nd comic: What? Gee, I must have missed that day in history class where we studied Dr. King’s famous “every white man has to have sex with a black woman or he’s a racist” speech. Because, really, has this ever happened, ever? This is the strawiest of straw man arguments I have ever seen.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Regarding the accusations of racism at white men who aren’t attracted to black women, I’d guess it’s like those guys who complain that they’re called sexist for finding women attractive. It’s not that they find women attractive, or that they have yet to encounter a black woman that they found attractive, but that they’re whistling at women across the street and yelling “get yer tits out!” or that they’re ranting about how ugly black women are, what with their thick lips and big bottoms, or whatever it is they like to say. It’s not who they’re attracted to that’s the problem, it’s the utter lack of respect for entire sections of society which they demonstrate in expressing those preferences, it’s just that they “forget” to mention those parts while whining about the criticisms they receive.

cloudiah
7 years ago

If I were the creator of the original comic I’d be pretty pissed off someone did this to my work.

Eh, I’m actually quite in favor of creative re-use/mashups, etc. It’s just in this case it went terribly wrong, but as a general rule you can get some really delightful things. I bet Disney isn’t real thrilled by this kind of thing, but I’m in favor. 🙂

Here’s an example of something Disney was kind of pissed about:

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

“Eh, I’m actually quite in favor of creative re-use/mashups, etc. It’s just in this case it went terribly wrong, but as a general rule you can get some really delightful things.”

I agree, but I would be pissed if the re-use was racist and misogynist and totally the opposite of my work’s original purpose, is all I’m saying.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Being pissed is the natural reaction, absolutely.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

See, something like this is perfectly wonderful: http://thischarmingcharlie.tumblr.com/

twomoogles
twomoogles
7 years ago

Every time I see this shit I just get incoherently ranty “But,,,but…most rapes don’t happen at 4 AM in dark alleys! That’s actually really rare! Women don’t actually walk around dark alleys in bikinis at night, the fuck?”

Someone I had previously respected posted something like this, except comparing rape to shark attacks. Basically showing swimmers carrying bloody meat through shark-infested waters and then saying “sharks shouldn’t attack us!”

So much rage! Rapists are not a force of nature like sharks or earthquakes! It’s not like the mere presence of a scantily-clad female walking alone at night *rolleyes* causes them to appear.

Alice Sanguinaria
Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

twomoogles – I think that’s the part that really pisses me off the most, the fact that everyone sees rapists not as a person like you and me (except for the fact that they chose to rape), but as a sort of uncontrollable monster, a force to be reckoned with. And it’s annoying, because you’re being disingenuous when you compare rapists to monsters.

It makes it harder for rape victims to get help/sympathy, because no one is inclined to believe that Bob, the nice guy next door, actually raped someone. To them, rapists are monsters, not people who live next door or who go to school with you.

People choose to rape. Most (if not all) people do not wake up in the morning and thinks “I’m feel this sudden urge to rape someone today!”. They CHOOSE to rape.

By comparing rapists to forces of nature, you deny rapists freedom of choice. And that’s the big flaw with that particular idea, because if rapists didn’t choose to rape, then what happened?

And that’s why I think victim blaming exists — because a lot of people are in the mindset that rapists are forces of nature, not people with the freedom of choice.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Welcome back, Athywren!

kittehserf
7 years ago

Alice – not to mention that the whole “force of nature” thing gives aid and comfort to the rapists. It makes rape the victim’s fault. It exonerates the rapists (overwhelmingly men) and gives them societal support to continue raping.

cloudiah
7 years ago

That’s a good one!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

There’s something deeply ironic about men who compare themselves to sharks/earthquakes/other unpleasant things and then insist that it’s women who are somehow letting civilization down.

Alice Sanguinaria
Alice Sanguinaria
7 years ago

kittehserf – Exactly! If rape is a force of nature, then if you rape someone, it’s never your fault. That’s the denial of choice, of agency.

What I’ve noticed is that MRAs (and other assholes) like to deny agency to men with boners, to make consent much more complicated. But sex takes two (or more, depending of the number of partners you’re banging) partners, it’s not a one-person show.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

“Do you want to have sex with me right now? Y/N”

It’s really not that hard, guys.