Thankfully he can still recognize me, and he asked for one of my paintings, maybe a self-portrait? Well, my painted self-portrait is embarrassingly bad, so I gave him the drawn one instead. So I’m hoping the “oh, so you’re who’s hanging on my wall” will get me somewhere when he doesn’t recognize me anymore. I don’t really think he’ll make it that long though…86, heart disease and diabetes, I’m dreading That Call.
I’m so sorry about your mother, I’m hoping she’s got a good nephrologist as people can survive a long time on dialysis. My grandfather’s sister was on it for years before she died (of something else actually) Best of luck to you all.
And I like the idea of choosing how we go, sorta. I mean, I’d be dead by now if we could, cuz suicidal fairly regularly, but yeah “peacefully in my sleep at 100, having otherwise enjoyed the century” sounds like most people’s ideal.
@Ally – even though it’s not all coming from your father, everything you describe in those negative feelings about yourself is learned behaviour. It’s all been instilled by other people’s bullying, so the same thing applies.
I get what you say about the weighting, as it were – them in person (not “in real life!” This is real life and real people too) will automatically have more impact than us who are words on a screen. I was talking purely about numbers of people involved.
Also, I’d guess your father contributed more than “indirectly” to your social anxiety and low self esteem. Growing up with an abusive parent would have to be a huge factor.
@kendra – ignore this if it’s asking too much info, but how does your mother feel about end of life? Is the danger to your re: kidney transplant her only concern, or does she not want extreme measures anyway? (I just had an advance healthcare plan made, so this sort of “do not want” is on my mind.)
I can’t offer any advice, at all. I can offer you some information from up to date sources? I couldn’t find much on the organ donor, but some info on kidney transplant.
You’ll want to download these, they’re PDFs and are only going to be hosted for 5 days.
@kendra – ignore this if it’s asking too much info, but how does your mother feel about end of life? Is the danger to your re: kidney transplant her only concern, or does she not want extreme measures anyway? (I just had an advance healthcare plan made, so this sort of “do not want” is on my mind.)
I think it’s kind of both. She doesn’t want me or anyone else to lose health in order for her to gain health. She says it is morally correct for parents to help their children, but that it’s immoral for parents to use their adult children’s vital organs as a form of life extension, because that would be backwards of the natural order of life. But she also has a living will, so she said she does not want extreme measures taken to prolong her life. She calls that “prolonging death”. I also know she’s afraid of being on anti rejection drugs, because they weaken the immune system, and she had cancer a few years ago and hates having infections all the time. I get MRSA infections, too, and she’d have to avoid me and my family any time we have boils if she were on those drugs. (By the way, I would have to disclose my MRSA history and asthma complications to any doctor before undergoing hospitalization and surgery)
The reason her kidneys are bad is because of lithium, so she also is worried about what kind of drugs she could use to treat her bipolar illness. She is afraid that if she had a fresh, new kidney then she would be wasting it by taking lithium anymore. But if she is on dialysis, she could take any drug she wants and only feel responsibility to the machine, if that makes any sense.
@SittieKittie, thank you for the files. I am downloading them and will read them. I want to learn as much as I can so I can help her and me make informed choices.
thebionicmommy
11 years ago
And one promising thing we will ask a doctor about is the idea of taking the a kidney from an old cadaver, the ones that other people don’t want. She would rather get a 70 year old kidney, so that the young, high demand ones could go to kids and teenagers. The reasoning is why put a 70 year old kidney into a 20 year old when they’d need another transplant ten years down the line? And why put a 20 year old kidney in a 70 year old when the kidney would outlast the recipient? Sorry if all this sounds morbid and depressing. It’s the kind of cold information I’ve found online trying to learn about ESRD (end stage renal disease).
Everything else aside — “The reason her kidneys are bad is because of lithium, so she also is worried about what kind of drugs she could use to treat her bipolar illness.”
This is why I’m on what I joking call the DEATH RASH drug. Lamictal. Idk how effective it is with bipolar 1, but it’s supposedly the best there is for bipolar 2 (I have…opinions…on that, but they aren’t relevant).
Besides the tiny risk of DEATH RASH it’s much much safer than lithium. Seriously, even the rash usually isn’t a big deal if caught early, I’m just prone to black humor. Besides the initial (completely tolerable) headache, I’ve had no issue with it.
Just throwing that info out there since ESRD idk, but bipolar I know.
Kendra – it sounds like your mother’s very clear about it, then, especially since she’s thought it out via a living will (what gets called an advance healthcare plan here).
It makes perfect sense that she would rather be responsible only to the dialysis machine, and no, it doesn’t sound morbid or depressing talking about these things. Sad, for you and your family, going through this, but it’s information you need.
The possibility of a 70-year-old kidney makes a lot of sense too.
thebionicmommy
11 years ago
This is why I’m on what I joking call the DEATH RASH drug. Lamictal. Idk how effective it is with bipolar 1, but it’s supposedly the best there is for bipolar 2 (I have…opinions…on that, but they aren’t relevant).
I am going to tell my mom to ask about this drug. I’m sure she would rather have a rash from hell than this kidney damage. I think she’d take any side effect over this. I’m kind of frustrated that doctors gave her such a toxic drug, but at the time they didn’t realize the risks. I’m glad there are more bipolar treatment options now than there used to be.
I have information on the kidney waiting list, but I wasn’t sure if you would want it…
That’s what I was afraid of. And we are all still completely in favor of the current organ rationing system, even though mom ranks lower on the list. That’s where I think they need to have a special list for lower quality kidneys, so she’d get a chance without taking good kidneys away from sick kids.
And thanks for reassurance on my decisions, katz, cloudiah, and everyone else. At this point, I can’t yet make any decisions. First the doctors decide if her body can handle a transplant and anti rejection drugs. Then mom has a decision to make, too, because it’s her body and she gets to say if she wants a transplant or not. At that point, I will have to do the testing and then decide what is best for my her and my family.
Ally, as many hugs as you want/need. Plus a standing offer for the recipe for the world’s best cinnamon bun dough (it’s a bread recipe I adapted to make a sweet bread, so it is fairly singular).
Alice,
“One of my friends just posted on how someone street harassed her into giving a creepy guy her number even though she made it clear that she was a minor and that she had a boyfriend and that she wanted him to leave her alone. He then proceeded to calling and texting said number, even though she (and her boyfriend) made it clear that she didn’t want to be contacted by this creepy guy at all.
🙁
What the hell people?”
See, the thing is that when we (and by “we” I mean society of our toxic culture in general) see women enforcing a boundary, we have to stop her because “Gee whiz, he was just being nice, what are you crazy?!?”. Until we rid the population of that reflex, this is what the hell is going to keep happening. Women will continue to be browbeaten into a terrifying flirtatious corner (thanks Harriet Jay for that phrase) and will have no choice except to date all the creepy guys forever. And then be called slut for doing so. All we can do is intervene on her (whoever her is) behalf when we see it, and get the men we know involved in recognising this violent and abusive coercion for what it is. It is societally sanctioned rape. Because if we can’t escape the situation without having to date creepy guy, what are the odds we are going to get out of it without having to fuck him?
Dave, thank you so much. I read the post on the MR-E’s (did they ruin Batman for anyone else?). It is perfection as always. And something I was truly unable to deal with on my own. And thank you to each supportive comment, each acknowledgement of how truly awful these people are. It helps. This is right out my front door, and all of that helped me walk through it today, and will help again tomorrow.
Shaun – If I were there, I highly doubt that he’d even dare to try bothering my friend. The problem was that the first thing that asshole did was isolate her between his car and a fence, with no exit, so she was stuck there. He wouldn’t leave until she texted him with her phone number attached. And the entire time he was telling her “oh, I think you’re pretty”.
I’m just infuriated that someone thought that this was okay.
Alice. I know. Me too. I hate the fact that it is acceptable, and even desirable, to bully someone into any kind of relationship. I need to change it in any small way I can. I call that shit out whenever I see it.
kittehserf, yeah I totally get that. I keep hearing the voices of my parents telling me that I’m not good enough and that I am not worth loving. My theory is that if I can ever deinternalise I’ll be able to replace it with something healthy. The good news is that I sometimes (now) do hear the wonderful things that people love about me, but it takes a lot of reinforcing, and it took accepting that what people say to me about me is true. That was hard.
Shaun – I’m lucky in that I don’t have that background of negativity from my parents, thank goodness. In my case it’s more the huge disparity in life experience and length of life between Louis and me, and I’m always surprised when he says what I do for him. Earthside brain (prolly closely related to the infamous jerkbrain) can’t really believe there can be that sort of equality or contribution from my side. Or rather, I can accept what he says at an intellectual level, but it’s not believed at an emotional level, where it needs to be. Which is all the stranger since I don’t doubt he loves me.
I have no idea how to overcome that. Unless it is learning to accept that he will not lie about this, and then accept how he sees you. Which seems too easy.
Shaun, that’s what I would do if I see it happening. Fortunately (or not) for me, I’ve never personally seen a case like that in real life, whether personally or by proxy as a bystander.
Online, I call the bigots out when I see it. Bigotry is not cool.
I think calling out bigotry online is good practice for calling it out AFK (away from keyboard). I know I am more willing to do it precisely because I’ve “practiced” it online.
I got into another awful argument with my dad today that involved a lot of yelling on his side. It basically went like this (not entirely verbatim):
Dad: “Until your second year of university, I want you to live with only Muslim roommates.”
Me: “Oh, so I can live with non-Muslims after a year of university?”
Dad: “Sure. I don’t want you living with non-Muslims sooner because, if you make non-Muslim friends with people you really like, you’re going to be tempted to get drunk just like them. I’m not saying that you’re going to be like that too, but–”
Me: “Okay, all right, I agree with you. I’m not arguing against anything you’re saying. But I’ve heard that college students aren’t as irresponsible as you think, and it’s easy to not dri-”
Dad: [anecdote about a Muslim friend of his getting drunk in college]
At this point, I got irritated because he has repeated this point countless times; apparently he thinks I’ll only listen to him if he repeats what he says over and over again.
Me: “Okay, fine, I’ll agree with everything you’re saying – I don’t want to argu-”
Dad: “LISTEN TO ME” [tells another anecdote from college]
Me: “I’ve heard this point from you like a 1000 times. I agree with you, and I’m not arguing against anything you’re saying.”
Dad: “EVEN IF I TELL YOU THE SAME THING 10 OR 100 OR 1000 TIMES YOU JUST NEED TO LEARN TO BE QUIET NO MATTER WHAT”
Me: “But repeating things over and over again to someone who has already understood what your point is from the beginning can be annoying.”
Dad: “WELL, YOU DON’T GET ANNOYED WHEN YOU SEE ADS ALL OVER THE PLACE”
Me: “No, actually, I do.”
Dad: “WHY ARE YOU SHOWING YOUR ATTITUDE TO ME?
We had left the car to enter this Iranian food place, and I could see that he was furious at me because of his quick movements and aggressive stance as he was walking with me.
Dad: “I TAKE YOU TO PLACES, I BUY YOU THINGS, BUT IN RETURN YOU DON’T STAY QUIET WHEN I REPEAT IMPORTANT THINGS TO YOU”
A few minutes later, after we stepped out of the place, he almost threw the keys at me and told me to wait in the car (he was picking up an order). He got even worse on the way back, telling me about how I’m probably going to end up just as un-Islamic as my mother and my older siblings. His yelling got so fucking loud that I could hear him clearly despite the fact that we were on a highway and the windows were open. Of course, when we got back to his office, he acted like he was totally normal. I can’t wait until I leave him.
We Hunted The Mammoth
@bionicmommy, Jedi hugs. There’s no right answer obviously, but I am sure you will do the right thing for you, your mom, and your family.
Thankfully he can still recognize me, and he asked for one of my paintings, maybe a self-portrait? Well, my painted self-portrait is embarrassingly bad, so I gave him the drawn one instead. So I’m hoping the “oh, so you’re who’s hanging on my wall” will get me somewhere when he doesn’t recognize me anymore. I don’t really think he’ll make it that long though…86, heart disease and diabetes, I’m dreading That Call.
I’m so sorry about your mother, I’m hoping she’s got a good nephrologist as people can survive a long time on dialysis. My grandfather’s sister was on it for years before she died (of something else actually) Best of luck to you all.
And I like the idea of choosing how we go, sorta. I mean, I’d be dead by now if we could, cuz suicidal fairly regularly, but yeah “peacefully in my sleep at 100, having otherwise enjoyed the century” sounds like most people’s ideal.
@Ally – even though it’s not all coming from your father, everything you describe in those negative feelings about yourself is learned behaviour. It’s all been instilled by other people’s bullying, so the same thing applies.
I get what you say about the weighting, as it were – them in person (not “in real life!” This is real life and real people too) will automatically have more impact than us who are words on a screen. I was talking purely about numbers of people involved.
Also, I’d guess your father contributed more than “indirectly” to your social anxiety and low self esteem. Growing up with an abusive parent would have to be a huge factor.
@kendra – ignore this if it’s asking too much info, but how does your mother feel about end of life? Is the danger to your re: kidney transplant her only concern, or does she not want extreme measures anyway? (I just had an advance healthcare plan made, so this sort of “do not want” is on my mind.)
thebionicmommy,
I can’t offer any advice, at all. I can offer you some information from up to date sources? I couldn’t find much on the organ donor, but some info on kidney transplant.
You’ll want to download these, they’re PDFs and are only going to be hosted for 5 days.
Patient information: Planning for a kidney transplant (The Basics)
Patient information: Kidney transplant (The Basics)
Dialysis or kidney transplantation — which is right for me?
Overview of care of the adult kidney transplant recipient
Evaluation of the potential renal transplant recipient
I can also offer you internet hugs and sympathy.
I think it’s kind of both. She doesn’t want me or anyone else to lose health in order for her to gain health. She says it is morally correct for parents to help their children, but that it’s immoral for parents to use their adult children’s vital organs as a form of life extension, because that would be backwards of the natural order of life. But she also has a living will, so she said she does not want extreme measures taken to prolong her life. She calls that “prolonging death”. I also know she’s afraid of being on anti rejection drugs, because they weaken the immune system, and she had cancer a few years ago and hates having infections all the time. I get MRSA infections, too, and she’d have to avoid me and my family any time we have boils if she were on those drugs. (By the way, I would have to disclose my MRSA history and asthma complications to any doctor before undergoing hospitalization and surgery)
The reason her kidneys are bad is because of lithium, so she also is worried about what kind of drugs she could use to treat her bipolar illness. She is afraid that if she had a fresh, new kidney then she would be wasting it by taking lithium anymore. But if she is on dialysis, she could take any drug she wants and only feel responsibility to the machine, if that makes any sense.
@SittieKittie, thank you for the files. I am downloading them and will read them. I want to learn as much as I can so I can help her and me make informed choices.
And one promising thing we will ask a doctor about is the idea of taking the a kidney from an old cadaver, the ones that other people don’t want. She would rather get a 70 year old kidney, so that the young, high demand ones could go to kids and teenagers. The reasoning is why put a 70 year old kidney into a 20 year old when they’d need another transplant ten years down the line? And why put a 20 year old kidney in a 70 year old when the kidney would outlast the recipient? Sorry if all this sounds morbid and depressing. It’s the kind of cold information I’ve found online trying to learn about ESRD (end stage renal disease).
Everything else aside — “The reason her kidneys are bad is because of lithium, so she also is worried about what kind of drugs she could use to treat her bipolar illness.”
This is why I’m on what I joking call the DEATH RASH drug. Lamictal. Idk how effective it is with bipolar 1, but it’s supposedly the best there is for bipolar 2 (I have…opinions…on that, but they aren’t relevant).
Besides the tiny risk of DEATH RASH it’s much much safer than lithium. Seriously, even the rash usually isn’t a big deal if caught early, I’m just prone to black humor. Besides the initial (completely tolerable) headache, I’ve had no issue with it.
Just throwing that info out there since ESRD idk, but bipolar I know.
I have information on the kidney waiting list, but I wasn’t sure if you would want it…
Kendra: What a difficult situation. I know you will make a wise decision.
Kendra – it sounds like your mother’s very clear about it, then, especially since she’s thought it out via a living will (what gets called an advance healthcare plan here).
It makes perfect sense that she would rather be responsible only to the dialysis machine, and no, it doesn’t sound morbid or depressing talking about these things. Sad, for you and your family, going through this, but it’s information you need.
The possibility of a 70-year-old kidney makes a lot of sense too.
I am going to tell my mom to ask about this drug. I’m sure she would rather have a rash from hell than this kidney damage. I think she’d take any side effect over this. I’m kind of frustrated that doctors gave her such a toxic drug, but at the time they didn’t realize the risks. I’m glad there are more bipolar treatment options now than there used to be.
That’s what I was afraid of. And we are all still completely in favor of the current organ rationing system, even though mom ranks lower on the list. That’s where I think they need to have a special list for lower quality kidneys, so she’d get a chance without taking good kidneys away from sick kids.
And thanks for reassurance on my decisions, katz, cloudiah, and everyone else. At this point, I can’t yet make any decisions. First the doctors decide if her body can handle a transplant and anti rejection drugs. Then mom has a decision to make, too, because it’s her body and she gets to say if she wants a transplant or not. At that point, I will have to do the testing and then decide what is best for my her and my family.
Ally, as many hugs as you want/need. Plus a standing offer for the recipe for the world’s best cinnamon bun dough (it’s a bread recipe I adapted to make a sweet bread, so it is fairly singular).
Alice,
“One of my friends just posted on how someone street harassed her into giving a creepy guy her number even though she made it clear that she was a minor and that she had a boyfriend and that she wanted him to leave her alone. He then proceeded to calling and texting said number, even though she (and her boyfriend) made it clear that she didn’t want to be contacted by this creepy guy at all.
🙁
What the hell people?”
See, the thing is that when we (and by “we” I mean society of our toxic culture in general) see women enforcing a boundary, we have to stop her because “Gee whiz, he was just being nice, what are you crazy?!?”. Until we rid the population of that reflex, this is what the hell is going to keep happening. Women will continue to be browbeaten into a terrifying flirtatious corner (thanks Harriet Jay for that phrase) and will have no choice except to date all the creepy guys forever. And then be called slut for doing so. All we can do is intervene on her (whoever her is) behalf when we see it, and get the men we know involved in recognising this violent and abusive coercion for what it is. It is societally sanctioned rape. Because if we can’t escape the situation without having to date creepy guy, what are the odds we are going to get out of it without having to fuck him?
Dave, thank you so much. I read the post on the MR-E’s (did they ruin Batman for anyone else?). It is perfection as always. And something I was truly unable to deal with on my own. And thank you to each supportive comment, each acknowledgement of how truly awful these people are. It helps. This is right out my front door, and all of that helped me walk through it today, and will help again tomorrow.
This isn’t a problem, least of all compared with what other manboobzers are going through, but I want to ask anyway.
Has anyone else had a hard time internalising the idea that they really do bring things to a relationship, things the other person values?
Shaun – If I were there, I highly doubt that he’d even dare to try bothering my friend. The problem was that the first thing that asshole did was isolate her between his car and a fence, with no exit, so she was stuck there. He wouldn’t leave until she texted him with her phone number attached. And the entire time he was telling her “oh, I think you’re pretty”.
I’m just infuriated that someone thought that this was okay.
Alice. I know. Me too. I hate the fact that it is acceptable, and even desirable, to bully someone into any kind of relationship. I need to change it in any small way I can. I call that shit out whenever I see it.
kittehserf, yeah I totally get that. I keep hearing the voices of my parents telling me that I’m not good enough and that I am not worth loving. My theory is that if I can ever deinternalise I’ll be able to replace it with something healthy. The good news is that I sometimes (now) do hear the wonderful things that people love about me, but it takes a lot of reinforcing, and it took accepting that what people say to me about me is true. That was hard.
Shaun – I’m lucky in that I don’t have that background of negativity from my parents, thank goodness. In my case it’s more the huge disparity in life experience and length of life between Louis and me, and I’m always surprised when he says what I do for him. Earthside brain (prolly closely related to the infamous jerkbrain) can’t really believe there can be that sort of equality or contribution from my side. Or rather, I can accept what he says at an intellectual level, but it’s not believed at an emotional level, where it needs to be. Which is all the stranger since I don’t doubt he loves me.
Actual line I actually said in VtM:B — nobody expects the Malkavian Inquisition!
I have no idea how to overcome that. Unless it is learning to accept that he will not lie about this, and then accept how he sees you. Which seems too easy.
That’s pretty much it, Shaun! Persuading one’s jerkbrain to siddownandshuddup in the back row, there. 🙂
Shaun, that’s what I would do if I see it happening. Fortunately (or not) for me, I’ve never personally seen a case like that in real life, whether personally or by proxy as a bystander.
Online, I call the bigots out when I see it. Bigotry is not cool.
I think calling out bigotry online is good practice for calling it out AFK (away from keyboard). I know I am more willing to do it precisely because I’ve “practiced” it online.
Exactly, If I see it in real life, I’m now more willing to say “not cool”, but that’s because I’ve practiced online.
[Content note: aggressive anger]
I got into another awful argument with my dad today that involved a lot of yelling on his side. It basically went like this (not entirely verbatim):
Dad: “Until your second year of university, I want you to live with only Muslim roommates.”
Me: “Oh, so I can live with non-Muslims after a year of university?”
Dad: “Sure. I don’t want you living with non-Muslims sooner because, if you make non-Muslim friends with people you really like, you’re going to be tempted to get drunk just like them. I’m not saying that you’re going to be like that too, but–”
Me: “Okay, all right, I agree with you. I’m not arguing against anything you’re saying. But I’ve heard that college students aren’t as irresponsible as you think, and it’s easy to not dri-”
Dad: [anecdote about a Muslim friend of his getting drunk in college]
At this point, I got irritated because he has repeated this point countless times; apparently he thinks I’ll only listen to him if he repeats what he says over and over again.
Me: “Okay, fine, I’ll agree with everything you’re saying – I don’t want to argu-”
Dad: “LISTEN TO ME” [tells another anecdote from college]
Me: “I’ve heard this point from you like a 1000 times. I agree with you, and I’m not arguing against anything you’re saying.”
Dad: “EVEN IF I TELL YOU THE SAME THING 10 OR 100 OR 1000 TIMES YOU JUST NEED TO LEARN TO BE QUIET NO MATTER WHAT”
Me: “But repeating things over and over again to someone who has already understood what your point is from the beginning can be annoying.”
Dad: “WELL, YOU DON’T GET ANNOYED WHEN YOU SEE ADS ALL OVER THE PLACE”
Me: “No, actually, I do.”
Dad: “WHY ARE YOU SHOWING YOUR ATTITUDE TO ME?
We had left the car to enter this Iranian food place, and I could see that he was furious at me because of his quick movements and aggressive stance as he was walking with me.
Dad: “I TAKE YOU TO PLACES, I BUY YOU THINGS, BUT IN RETURN YOU DON’T STAY QUIET WHEN I REPEAT IMPORTANT THINGS TO YOU”
A few minutes later, after we stepped out of the place, he almost threw the keys at me and told me to wait in the car (he was picking up an order). He got even worse on the way back, telling me about how I’m probably going to end up just as un-Islamic as my mother and my older siblings. His yelling got so fucking loud that I could hear him clearly despite the fact that we were on a highway and the windows were open. Of course, when we got back to his office, he acted like he was totally normal. I can’t wait until I leave him.
Note: He has been even worse than this.
He is, among other things, a fucking idiot.
Oh, and I don’t suppose it ever occurs to him that there are such things as non-Muslims who’ve never been drunk in their lives? Of course not.