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A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam blames rape chants at Canadian schools on feminism

Paul Elam: If he hears any ore about rape culture, he might possibly lose it.
Paul Elam: If he hears any more about rape culture, he might possibly lose it.

You might not think that student orientation events would be an appropriate venue for chants celebrating the rape of underage girls. But such chants have apparently been something of a tradition at not one but two Canadian schools — and possibly more? Last week, a scandal erupted at the University of British Columbia after word got out that an orientation event at its Saunder School of Business had included a chant on this particular theme, led by orientation leaders from the Commerce Undergraduate Society.

According to one woman who disgustedly live-tweeted the event, it went something like this:

Y-O-U-N-G at UBC, we like ’em young, Y is for your sister, O is for oh so tight, U is for underage, N is for no consent, G is for go to jail.

Meanwhile, in Halifax, someone made a video — and posted it to YouTube — of student orientation leaders at Saint Mary’s University chanting a nearly identical chant.

Naturally, noted, er, human rights activist Paul Elam of A Voice for Men felt compelled to weigh in on the issue. He started off by expressing his deep disgust … with having to hear anything about the issue at all:

I swear if I read one more outraged “report” — aka feverish, paranoid rant — that twists something stupid into “evidence” of a “rape culture,” I am going to just lose it.

Yes, how outrageous that a chant joking about raping underage girls at an official school orientation event could possibly be construed as contributing in any way to rape culture! So sorry that your delicate sensitivities were offended, Paul.

After some more predictable histrionics on this “hyper-hipster-hysteria” from Mr. Elam, he got to his main point: blaming feminists for the rape chants.

No, really.

I am an older guy. I find it interesting, given that I came from a more “patriarchal” generation, that something like this when I was 18 would have been unthinkable. Why? Because other men, especially older ones, would have pulled those young people aside and said, “Hey, we don’t do that around here.” That would have been that, as they say, if it had even happened in the first place.

We can thank feminists for this. Through policy and governance they have eroded positive male role models, and male authority, right out of the culture. After feminist undermining of the family, removing fathers from the lives of children and demonizing male heroes, we have a population of young people, especially young men, growing more socially feral with each new generation.

And now what do we see? Feminists running around everywhere telling men they need to tell each other, “Don’t rape. Don’t abuse women. Don’t this. Don’t that.” …

You can’t assault the identity of half the human race, marginalize and disempower them, which is exactly what feminism has done, and expect anything in return but what you are getting.

In other words: You gals asked for it.

Paul Elam, you are rape culture.

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LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: markb

That only works for electric bass. There are folks who play stand-up.

Ally S
8 years ago

I think they’re saying “consent.” I can easily make out a ‘c’ and an ‘n.’

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

I think various students might be saying either, in part because the rest is perfectly clear and that muddles. In any case, watch the blonde at the front left, and how she skips that line. Whatever it is, it’s more offensive than the rest to at least one student.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Mr Elam, well said. This is the result of feminism. Like you said, men used to do just what feminists seem to want yet their movement is what destroyed it to begin with. As usual, feminists cannot accept accountability for their pathetic nonsense. Feminists, You reap what you sow.

Pretends this kind of shit threatening women is new. Thinking only women should be held accountable. Vague threats.

Yup, this sure does look like a human rights movement.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: daboys1215

Yes, it’s totally women’s responsibility when men say horrible things.

I have higher aspirations for my gender, thank you.

kittehserf
8 years ago

Ah yes, the men who are masters of the universe, who are so logical and reasonable and good and kind and decent … are rapists, and shouldn’t be held to account for raping other human beings. Shouldn’t even be reproached for it, because those other human beings are just so uppity thinking they’re human at all, aren’t they? They’re so wise they see how awwwwful feminism is, yet they think the appropriate response is to promote rape – and in this instance, child rape.

Well done, rape apologists. Fly those colours.

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

>>>Every jumped up chump wants to play lead guitar and get girls, but every band needs a bassist.

Ain’t that the truth. My brother has been on over three bands already just from not being completely inept at playing bass. Like, nobody will ever say “Here’s a great bass player.” talking about him, but he’s never had trouble being on a band because once you weed out all the narcissists who want to be lead singer or lead guitarist, you’re still left looking for a bass player and possibly a drummer (*some* music genres really value their drummers, but they’re still at best third place in the Narcissist Guide to Playing in a Band).

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

BTW this has always gone on. In my Comp. Sci. program (end of the 90s) they had at least been able to really crack down on booze games in initiations (there was still some pressure to drink, as you could get “bonus points” in the challenges for drinking and nobody wants to let down their team in the competitions, but it was muted compared to what I hear was going on in the 80s). We had some mild “smear the newbies with condiments, chocolate syrup and get them soaking wet with water games” fun, which is sort of cool when it’s all in jest, but anytime someone would get a blame (which involved said smearing) the veterans would chant “Sodomy! Sodomy!” which is just so typical of a 99% male cis hetero geek space. I think looking back from 15 years of wisdom and anarchist/feminist/queer activism, I now understand more how fucked that was, even though at the time I only had some mild misgivings about the subtly coercive ways in which those games are built.

daboys1215
daboys1215
8 years ago

RE: LBT

1) It’s always funny when feminists can’t read a word.
2) There is a difference between feminists and women
3) Read before you post

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

Also, as fucked as Halifax was, in my hometown of Montreal there was a kerfuffle because feminists protested initiations in UQAM (I believe in the Communications program) that were based on whorephobic games. Each team had a “whore” (a blow-up doll) as a mascot and had to participate in sexualized games where they “pimped out” their doll. Really made me gag when I read it in the news. (Every team has a slogan too, and I’ll spare you those.) Some guys (I assume local MRAs, though maybe that’s putting too much faith in the average Comms guy at UQAM to think it wasn’t just some randoms) actually hit some of the feminists as they tried to “liberate” the dolls. (Whatever you think about the validity of a radical feminist action to disrupt the event, hitting back physically is certainly not OK.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Actually, contrary to what marc assumes, lead guitarists get just as much attention (and have egos just as huge) as singers. It’s always funny watching bands implode because the official singer/guitarist Battle of the Egos has gotten out of control.

People of any gender who actually love music value good bass players, because they make your band sound so much better, especially live.

daboys1215
daboys1215
8 years ago

Re: cloudiah

Haha! So now holding people accountable for their actions is a threat. LOL!

First off, if you knew how to read, you’d know there was no threat. Posting the truth is a simple statement. Secondly, there is a difference between women and feminists. Third I was talking about the garbage that feminism was, is and always will be and the damage it did to society. This story (and the lack of guidance) is one of those things that feminism is responsible for. Funny how you read that as a threat. So typical of a feminist to do so.

Robert
Robert
8 years ago

BlackBloc – that sounds horrific. No exaggeration. I cannot imagine encountering such behavior at university. Thanks for giving me yet another reason to be grateful for my life experiences.

markb
markb
8 years ago

Yes, lead guitarists and lead singers both, but I doubt it’s the technique. I have a friend who had a crush on a boy who played guitar when she was ten; I doubt she cared whether he was amazing, or just good enough that he didn’t suck. I think if you’re a guy and your goal in playing guitar is to attract women, you can do it by just learning a few chords or simple riffs and having stage presense. I could be wrong, though.

Bass can have an interesting effect. I recorded some songs with a bassist friend once, and his bass line to my “three chords plus a fourth one for the chorus” song is the thing I now remember as the “core” of the song. It took over from my melody.

BTW, here’s for anyone who is interested: http://www.elle.com/pop-culture/reviews/12-greatest-female-electric-guitarists-339255

Also, I hope this isn’t out of place, but a friend of mine just released an album which I think is fantastic, so in the spirit of supporting women who rock (or pop, in her case), here is a link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/solid-state-sun/id701147891

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Ironic that you’re plugging a female friend’s album in the same comment as reinforcing the idea that female rock fans don’t care how good the musicians they’re into are.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
8 years ago

Off the top of my head, I can think of Joan Jett, Bonnie Raitt, Nancy Wilson, Liz Phair, Ani di Franco, and The Great Kat ( who was named one of the fastest shredders on the planet). Jett and Raitt made Rolling Stone’s top 100 all time guitarist list, so they’re no slouches. Joni Mitchell is pretty highly regarded too, for her distinctive open tuning style.

I think the reason female guitarists aren’t highly represented on “rock ‘n’ roll guitar great” lists is the same reason that blacks were notably absent from the list of 100 Most Educated People Circa 1750: lack of opportunity, lack of role models, and social penalties/obstacles. If more women were playing lead guitar in rock bands and receiving acclaim for it instead of harrassment, more young girls would take it up. It’s a chicken/egg problem.

As it is, I suspect musically inclined women gravitate to other genres (pop/country), other instruments, or songwriting. Rock no longer has a monopoly on airplay.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Cassandra — eh, I took that as saying that the women and girls who are into music for the eye candy don’t care if he can play, not that all women and girls are into music for that. But I could be wrong, I’m just inclined to give the benefit of the doubt in this case.

markb
markb
8 years ago

I didn’t mean that female rock fans don’t care about how good the musicians are, I meant that sex appeal is based more on stage presense (IMO). I was addressing the claim that male guitarists become virtuosos in order to attract women, pointing out that you can get the same results with less effort, if that’s really your goal. I also suspect (because I’m a cynic) that most rock fans of both sexes are more attracted to attitude and glamor than musicianship. I can vividly recall being at a Jimmy Page / Robert Plant concert in Boston where the fans applauded every guitar solo so loudly that you couldn’t actually hear it. They weren’t there for the music. BTW, if it’s considered uncouth to plug friends’ albums and such, please let me know.

cloudiah
8 years ago

So now holding people accountable for their actions is a threat.

Given Paul Elam’s history of supporting doxxing and endorsing firebombing courthouses as “activism,” I think it’s pretty safe to view everything your “movement” does through the lens of threat assessment. You guys have more than earned your bad reputation, and you can’t blame feminism for that.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Whereas I am definitely not inclined to give the benefit of the doubt in this case. I mean really, my friend had a crush when she was 10 and therefore (something about how adult women relate to musicians)?

Not conflating “I think this band is awesome” with “I think this guy who happens to be in a band is hot” is a start, but I’m still side-eyeing this whole conversation.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

@Buttercup Q Skullpants

Mother Maybelle Carter is also notable – her picked-bass-and-chords style has directly or indirectly inspired nearly everyone doing some sort of hybrid lead-rhythm in pop music, particularly on the more rootsy side of things.

Corin Tucker and Carrie Brownstein (neatly solving the dearth-of-bass-players problem by tuning down to C# and using some inspired chopped-up drumming) were one of the most creative guitar duos of the ’90s in Sleater-Kinney, and Donita Sparks and Suzi Gardner are another west-coast ’90s pair for those more into vaguely hardcore-inspired moshy stuff.

I’m really not into the guitar-magazine-shreddy-polished side of things but Orianthi is every bit as good as Steve Vai at that and far less fucking boring.

kittehserf
8 years ago

Couldn’t possibly be that all the people at that Led Zeppelin concert were there because they’d been attracted to the music in the first place, could it?

Gee, if I went to a Springsteen concert it’d totally be because I don’t actually give a hoot about his music.

Am I the only one who’s getting a sense of snobbery about people who like music but don’t read it, or play, or know about the technicalities? Who just like, y’know, listening?

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Actually that was possibly unfair to Steve Vai – some of the stuff I’ve heard from him has a real sense of humour to it. Sub in Joe Satriani or Michaelangelo Batio or something.

cloudiah
8 years ago

::sharing Maybelle love with lowquacks::

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I do indeed smell the distinctive odor of the pretentious music snob, and frankly I deal with enough people like that through work, I’m not thrilled to encounter the same shit during my leisure time.

Random female guitarist who even the sexist assholes seem to be willing to admit she’s good.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Good autoharpist, too, though she’s rather less visible as an autoharp influence because next to nobody plays autoharp anymore.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Joe Satriani! That guy wins the award as the single most unpleasant professional musician I’ve ever encountered.

kittehserf
8 years ago

I can do a musical snob thing right now: m’lord found there’s a concert on over There tomorrow night, and we’re rounding up the family to go to it.

It’s new music by Vivaldi, and he’ll be conducting.

Venice, here we come!

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

It is certainly true that feminism is the reason there were so many girls and women there to hear them.
It is also true that men used to make these same sorts of misogynist chants back in the day. No older guy ever took them aside and said we don’t do that here. The older guys were the ones who taught them the school rape chants.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Example here for those interested:

The Carter Family recorded that tune a few times, but the Bristol Sessions version is incredibly chill-inducing. Two people singing old-time harmonies a little off-tune, one strummed autoharp, one microphone, two takes, and it still sounds amazing nearly a century later.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

@CassandraSays

Can you say any more? I just assumed somebody who made such technically proficient yet incredibly boring music would be equally pleasant yet boring in person. Guess I might have also assumed that because dude (IIRC) taught Kirk Hammett and Steve Vai, and while I don’t care much for the playing of either (though I find Kirk far more bearable when he turns the wah pedal off and Vai far more entertaining when he turns it on) they’ve always seemed very pleasant people from what I’ve seen.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

@kittehserf

To be fair about Springsteen, there’s a sort of meme/received wisdom/whatever that even if you don’t like Springsteen’s music, you’ll enjoy a concert by him.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

He was just really rude and arrogant, which was hilarious given that it was at a signing in a tiny little record store where maybe 20 people tops showed up, media included. He was particularly condescending to the women/girls.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Another excellent woman guitarist: Carol Kaye, probably more known for being one of the most prolific and influential bass players of the ’60s, also played a fair amount of session guitar on songs you’ve almost certainly heard, including one of the first examples of playing guitar through a rotating speaker on Jewel Akin’s “The Birds and the Bees”.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Also this leads us into a related conversation, which is that someone can be incredibly gifted and proficient on a technical level and still make really boring music. Some guitar snobs would say that people should love Satriani’s albums and buy lots of them, but my perspective would be that technically skilled doesn’t always equal great music. Some people are just OK in terms of technique but fantastic songwriters, for example.

kittehserf
8 years ago

lowquacks – given the huge entertainment package he puts together, I’m not surprised! That said, I don’t think I would enjoy his concerts, even though I really like a lot of his music; but that’s about noise levels and preferring original recordings to live versions of them anyway, not about him specifically.

daboys1215
daboys1215
8 years ago

Congrats Cloudiah. You have once again proved that you are incapable of reading. It would be remarkable if it wasn’t so common amongst your kind. It seems to be a symptom of the disease known as feminism.

markb
markb
8 years ago

“Couldn’t possibly be that all the people at that Led Zeppelin concert were there because they’d been attracted to the music in the first place, could it?”

My point was, they couldn’t hear the music because they were applauding over it. But yes, I’m sure they enjoyed the music when they first heard it and they went to the concert more so that they could say they’d heard Page and Plant play live. I was annoyed because I had come there to hear the band, not the audience.

kittehserf
8 years ago

Well that’s what happens with rock concerts, people are excited and noisy.

… Classic FM is currently playing the theme music from Star Wars. O_o

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I can understand getting annoyed when people scream over something quiet like an acapella or an acoustic guitar solo, but to get pissy with people being noisy at a hard rock show? Eh, just stay home and listen to the music in an environment you can control.

kittehserf
8 years ago

Yeah, it’s not only the music, it’s fans seeing the musicians. I mean, duh.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Mr C gets pissy when a band’s live show doesn’t sound EXACTLY like the recorded version. This is why I don’t take him to many shows – his grouching about it ruins everyone else’s good time.

markb
markb
8 years ago

Yes, I tend to stay home in general. And I’m more of a snob in general, not music-specific. Parents are Russian classical musicians, I absorbed the attitude but not the ear for music.

Interesting thing about the Page / Plant show; at one point they brought out an Egyptian hurdy-gurdy player and the crowd loved it, purely for the musical experience. That was the one point where it felt like they were enjoying the concert and discovering something new, not just loving the idea of being part of rock history.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Are you trying to win today’s prize for best projection or something?

Alice
Alice
8 years ago

It pisses me off how some people romanticize the past as some golden era. Elam longs for the good ol’ days days when “rape chants” never existed. Um…no. Rape chants and rape still happened. He just longs for the days when women (and men) didn’t complain about it because it was not considered a “polite” topic for discussion. Just like the myriad of other social ills that apparently manifested out of the thin air within the past few decades.

Alice
Alice
8 years ago

@CassandraSays

I’m EXACTLY the same way. I thought I was the only one.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

@ Alice

You mean like Mr C?

cloudiah
8 years ago

The autoharp is an underappreciated instrument. Maybe I will learn it, and become the next autoharp wizard. I’ve been casting about for a new hobby…