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Men’s Rights Redditor on Gaming: “It would be nice if women/feminists … f**ked off and created their own thing rather than moving into a men’s space … .”

George Eliot: Should she have been alllowed to play video games?
George Eliot: Should she have been allowed to play Call of Duty?

So the other day the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit were having another thoughtful and nuanced discussion about OMG WOMEN PLAYING VIDEO GAMES GET OUT GIRL GERMS EWWWW GAMING IS FOR MEN ONLY HELP HELP WE’RE BEING OPPRESSED and the always insightful IHaveALargePenis offered this little suggestion to the “feminists/women” of the world:

IHaveALargePenis 25 points 6 days ago (51|26)  It would be nice if women/feminists for once fucked off and created their own thing rather than moving into a men's space (after decades of berating it and the men participating in it) and demanding things change to suit them.  Remember revenge of the nerds? A movie that's about 30 years old? All those "nerds" are the ones in charge of modern technology. They're the Bill Gates' and Steve Jobs' of today and people love their products. They didn't have it easy getting to where they did, they sure as shit weren't given a green light for simply being men. So why is it that women aren't walking down the same road? Hell it's not even the same road since most people don't actively insult them or tell them they can't do it for simply being women.  It would be nice if feminists for once proved everyone wrong and themselves right by getting a bunch of women together and creating a new system/industry from the ground up which men want to flock to.

Huh. So in return I guess men would agree to hand science fiction over to the ladies — after all, it was one of them, Mary Shelley, who basically invented the whole genre back in 1818 with her mad-scientist classic Frankenstein.

Mr. Penis also gets bonus points for explicitly conflating women and feminists — most MRAs do this only implicitly, and then pretend they haven’t — and wins this month’s “Really? You Really Just Said That?” MRA Irony Award for declaring in his second paragraph that “people don’t actively insult [women] or tell them they can’t [get involved in nerdy pursuits] for simply being women” after he JUST DID EXACTLY THAT ONE PARAGRAPH EARLIER.

One brave commenter responded to Mr. Penis’ screed with a detailed list of infliential women in the gaming industry. Amazingly, this comment wasn’t downvoted into oblivion, though it is worth noting that it got considerably fewer net upvotes that Mr. Penis’ masterpiece.

The thread, naturally, is full of poop from other contributors as well. Cthulusbaby not only doesn’t want women playing or expressing opinions about games; he doesn’t even want imaginary women in his games. No Manic Pixel Dream Girls for him!

Also, he seems to be under the impression that there are no men in romance movies.*

Cthulusbaby 4 points 5 days ago* (9|5)      what right do men have to claim an entire subculture as "their own space"?  When they are the overwhelming majority of consumers for it? Seriously, look at the demographics of men vs women for games like COD and Gears of War and explain how these online communities AREN'T male spaces?  I don't want female soldiers in my games about elite special forces, because in real life there are no female navy seals or SAS. Women just don't belong, there's no need for them in these games. I like my shoot-em-ups to be testosterone fuelled aggression simulators, not equal opportunity political propaganda.  It's exactly the same as a small but vocal minority of men complaining about male representation in sappy romance movies, and a shit ton of other men jumping on the bandwagon even though they've got no actual interest in it.      Also, you put an unfair and extremely skewed amount of blame on women for the amount of stigmatization placed on "nerds" back in the day. Sure there are women who berate gamers but I think mass media as a whole hasn't been doing that subculture any favors and to say that women are more to blame for that is completely unfounded and absurd.  I think you'll find that women are the primary consumers of TV media, and women are the ones who decide what is attractive and desirable in men. You'll notice that since the "nerd" archetype became more attractive to women, it's moved more into the mainstream and is no longer as socially unacceptable. You really think that is coincidence?  Upvoting you for providing an alternative viewpoint, but you're really misguided.

Acolmiztli, meanwhile, sheds a tear for the nerds that came before him:

acolmiztli 3 points 5 days ago (5|2)  Men were raised in a culture where playing video games was grounds for social pariah status and open hostility. It was amazing that anyone developed a love for computer games to the point of wanting to make it their career!!

Evidently the only way to rectify this past injustice is to do the same thing to women today? It’s the MEN’S RIGHTS WAY!

And hey, if women don’t like it, well, they can always just hide their gender identity. (On the Internet no one knows you’re George Eliot.)

poloppoyop 2 points 5 days ago (4|2)  A lot of free tools have been available for years to make games. Anyone can take the time to learn things, participate in open source softwares etc. If teenagers do it, I don't see what prevents women to do the same. Their gender? Nope, internet offers anonymity so you can participate in some project and people will consider you male until proven otherwise.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

Sometimes all it takes to solve these silly lady problems is some good old-fashioned male ingenuity,

H/T to Againstmensrights on Reddits for pointing out Mr. Penis’ lovely remark, and making the same point about science fiction.

* Note to extremly literal-minded readers: I am not actually suggesting that Cthulusbaby thinks there are no men in romance movies. It is just that the way he is framing the issue is so ridiculous he might as well think that.

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kittehserf
7 years ago

guffaw-ferrets – Hi! 🙂

grumpycatisagirl
grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

I kind of wish seemingly driveby troll had ever answered David’s question. Because otherwise seemingly driveby troll is seemingly driveby trolling.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Falconer’s babies (and my friend’s new son) remind me of how much is right with the world, and how it’s worth fighting for. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabies.

BritterSweet
BritterSweet
7 years ago

Even if women/feminists DID create their own place, these very same dudebros would complain about it and accuse THEM of “discrimination.”

I’ve heard men complaining about the women-only cars in Japan. Yeah. One car on the train, during certain hours of the day, as an attempt to work on the problem with men molesting women and girls.

A women’s library gets “MEN READ BOOKS TOO, CUNT” graffitied on the wall. Never mind how it doesn’t even ban men. It just mainly features books about the women’s movement and/or by female authors.

On International Women’s Day in March, I’ve heard guys complaining about a lack of International Men’s Day, even though there IS one in November. They don’t bother to look it up to see if there is one, or try to make one. Because, to quote someone else, they don’t actually want to have an International Men’s Day. They just don’t want women to have a Women’s Day.

Noadi
7 years ago

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve noticed a distinct difference in how I’m treated when it comes to video games versus analog gaming (tabletop RPG, LARP, CCG, etc). I’ve rarely been made to feel unwelcome playing D&D, or Vampire: the Masquerade LARP, or Magic the Gathering but I’ve gotten no end of grief from video game players offline as well as online.

radiantsophia
7 years ago

I don’t video game much (I do, but single-player, offline rpgs), but the “gamer” certainly fits with respect to rpgs and ccgs. My playgroup is 50% women. Even when I play pathfinder at the local brick & mortar Ive never been subject to “girls don’t play D&D”, etc. FNM (Friday night Magic the Gathering) is a very different story. I’m usually the only woman in ~40 people, and I may have heard every possible gendered insult that group could produce.

Malitia
Malitia
7 years ago

I know I’m not from the US but in my childhood (80s-90s in a communist/post-communist country) playing video games was a status symbol (OK. nerdy too, and kind of boyish because of the “boys like technology” stupidity). It meant your parents were wealthy / influential enough to afford a computer. And it just got more mainstream later… but you could not tell this from our media. Weirdly we imported all the prejudice (not only against gaming, but tabletop RPGs and all) even if it never had any basis in reality here (if it ever had any anywhere). This phenomenon deeply confuses me. :/

katz
7 years ago

Yeah, I remember having an N64 made you everybody’s best friend back in the day.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I have to wonder if these guys just assumed that their cool toys were the reason people didn’t like them, when in fact people would have loved to hang out at their houses and play with the toys if they hadn’t had been cursed with the personality equivalent of the way a skunk smells.

lightcastle
lightcastle
7 years ago

@Argenti But the only shit I’ve ever gotten isn’t really shit but fanwanking about Fishmalks (and that is quickly killed as my Malks are not Fishmalks)

A guy I knew played the ultimate spin on Fishmalk in a LARP I was in. His Malk was utterly reasonable and controlled (most thought him a Ventrue) except that he knew the Dark Secret no one could speak of openly. All the talk of the Antedeluvians was just hiding the truth in plain sight; it was the FLOOD that was the important part. The Flood had come and destroyed the early vampires. The Jihad was not Elder vs Younger, it was Vampire vs FISH! The Fish were the Ancient Enemy, but you couldn’t speak of this out loud because Water is EVERYWHERE and the Fish have spies.

He therefore very calmly and rationally approached everything he did in the light of his knowledge that he was fighting the good fight against the fish, making his methods and goals completely deranged because no one save a select few had any idea why he did the things he did.

Ally S
7 years ago

I think these MRAs are conflating nerd culture and gaming culture. The two do intersect in some ways, but the vast majority of gamers (especially male gamers) don’t face any kind of shaming or ridicule. When I got my first handheld console ever, all of my friends wanted to play multiplayer games with me, trade games, borrow games, etc.

And even though nerds face ridicule and shaming from time to time, it’s not nearly as pervasive as people think it is. Nor is it that simple; “nerd-shaming” is a product of various sociocultural influences, including classism and sexism.

10knives
10knives
7 years ago

Good luck with claiming video games as man only space.

Any woman with $1000 in my country can easily get a home console and some games in a single afternoon, take them all home and plug them in. Unless every store and pawn shop is willing to card and search every would-be customer for the vaginaness, your fortress of manitude ain’t shit – you can’t stop a woman from gaming if she really wants to and has the cash.

And you’re terminally dumb for even trying, anyways.

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

A guy I knew played the ultimate spin on Fishmalk in a LARP I was in. His Malk was utterly reasonable and controlled (most thought him a Ventrue) except that he knew the Dark Secret no one could speak of openly. All the talk of the Antedeluvians was just hiding the truth in plain sight; it was the FLOOD that was the important part. The Flood had come and destroyed the early vampires. The Jihad was not Elder vs Younger, it was Vampire vs FISH! The Fish were the Ancient Enemy, but you couldn’t speak of this out loud because Water is EVERYWHERE and the Fish have spies.

The troof about the Fishinati/Furrinati is hidden everywhere! Even in gaming it appears.

tinyorc
7 years ago

deniseeliza said:

Also, I love how “gaming culture” somehow means “going nuts over really unimaginative war shooters that get crapped out every few months”. It’s as if “movie buffs” were primarily interested in summer blockbusters, and shamed everyone who’d rather watch an indie flick or a documentary than another entry into the Transformers or Fast and Furious franchises.

Yes yes YES. I have this conversation so infuriatingly often that I actually wrote a post about it recently – http://massivehassle.com/2013/08/23/girls-dont-play-real-games/

Dude: Girls don’t play games.
Me: Yes they do. Here is some significant statistical evidence that shows that they do.
Dude: Yeah, but they don’t play REAL games.
Me: What exactly are “real” games?

And after a little probing, “real games” ALWAYS turns out to be CoD/Gears of War/Halo/Battlefield/other formulaic FPS du jour… and while I have played and enjoyed some of those games, I largely find them boring and repetitive and this does not mean I don’t like games, it means I like games enough that I’ve actually formed a critical opinion on what kind of games I do and don’t like and make my gaming choices accordingly.

I am so tired of debating the definition of real games with dudebros who insist on dismissing statistical evidence out of hand because it’s incompatible with their worldview. It’s one of the most annoying and insidious forms of gatekeeping!

Often Partisan
Often Partisan
7 years ago

I’m female and I like Gears of War but yeah, it has got OTT masculinity in it (which is an element of GOW that I take the piss out of). Why is this dude so bothered that oh no Anya is in it? Or even worse, Bernie, as she’s got to be in her 50s *at least* in universe so therefore isn’t even attractive to the males that play the game…I mean I wouldn’t even call Gears equal opportunity propaganda in the slightest, anyone who’s looked at the expanded Gears verse would know that’s not the case. There’s plenty of testosterone bullshit in Gears dude, you’re not missing out just because they added a few women in the third game!

Often Partisan
Often Partisan
7 years ago

“And after a little probing, “real games” ALWAYS turns out to be CoD/Gears of War/Halo/Battlefield/other formulaic FPS du jour…”

Yeah, its very annoying when people say shooters are the only real games. What annoys me is the idea that women only play “easy” puzzle games and shit, which annoys me because, well, a lot of puzzle games are actually incredibly hard (e.g. Hexic HD, Bejeweled 2 – hardly any gamers have got the full 200G on these games for example). I mean of course, if people only wanted to play easy casual puzzle titles that’s fine I mean who cares? but the idea only shooters are “hardcore” is what annoys me. I mean I actually like shooters up to a point (though the only shooter I would call myself an actual real big fan is Gears), and I still definitely think this attitude is bullshit.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I throughly approve of that Fishmalk. As neuroticbeagle alluded to, everyone knows that fish do rule (my) world!

And yeah, not a FPS fan, I’d rather log hundreds of hours in a handful of games than a handful of hours in a hundred games (which is good since I’m perma-broke!)

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

Chie did a pretty good take-down of the ‘classic’ movie Revenge of the Nerds, but did miss one key bit (Trigger Warnings):

After the central protagonist does his rape-by-deception routine, the young woman in question not only compliments him on his skills as a lover (which he credits on the fact that, “The only thing nerds think about is sex,” because apparently theorizing about bits you never even get close to is enough to make you an expert*), but dumps her ‘jock’ boyfriend to become the nerd’s trophy girlfriend.

So, yeah, the movie’s on my go-to list of examples of “Rape is Okay If You Do It Right”.

Oh, and it gets a further bonus point for a white man (the sidekick nerd) impressing and inspiring the members of an African-American fraternity with his tale of nerdpression.**

*: Man, that movie really does sum up the MRA mindset, doesn’t it?

**: I mean, it’s like they use the script as inspirational gospel or something.

Falconer
7 years ago

A bunch die pretty fast too — looking at YOU, trucker movies of the 1970s!

We killed large-scale fast freight and passenger rail in the United States! FUCK YEAH!! Let’s make a buncha mooovies.

Yeah, I remember having an N64 made you everybody’s best friend back in the day.

My Mario Party brings all the boys to the yard.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

“Oh, and it gets a further bonus point for a white man (the sidekick nerd) impressing and inspiring the members of an African-American fraternity with his tale of nerdpression.”

Yes, being socially ostracized in your privileged, white, upper-middle class school is tantamount to segregation, hundreds of years of slavery, the striping of your autonomy and cultural identity, and systematic disenfranchisement.

If that doesn’t make you vomit inside your mouth, what will?

Robert
Robert
7 years ago

I’ve been in a number of mixed gender D&D campaigns, both as player and DM. Also ran a long duration campaign – just over eight years – with an all gay male party . Players, that is, although most of the characters were as well. I suspect that idea would put a bustle in the hedgerow of the He-Man Woman Haters Club guys quoted in the OP.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

I tend to think of “hardcore gamer” having more to do with hours spent than the type of game. In which case: I earned 2 of the 3 Master materia by sheer AP accumulation, and earned the level 4 Limit Breaks of all nine characters. I beat Sephiroth in two rounds, and had to actually go back in and go easy on him to even see the infamous Supernova summon.

Oh, nevermind, JRPGs are for girls.

As for M:tG, it must have depended on where you were and who you played with. I was never deliberately made to feel excluded, but I did have a couple of guys try to rip me off, and I got a shitload of mansplaining. My favorite was the young man who was probably in diapers when I started playing, trying to explain to me how Slivers worked, even after I told him I had been fine-tuning my Sliver deck since Tempest came out almost ten years before.

Karalora
Karalora
7 years ago

If the dudebros were being honest, the conversation would go like this:

Dudebro: Girls don’t play real games.
Reasonable Person: What constitutes a “real game”?
Dudebro: Any game that girls don’t play.

As others have pointed out (but I feel like repeating anyway), no one questioned the “real game-ness” of genres like platformers and JRPGs until it became evident that they were just as popular with women as with men. It’s not that girls don’t play “real games,” it’s that to misogynists, the perceived value or legitimacy of an activity is inversely proportional to the extent to which women participate. See also: fields of science.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

I’ve done the RPG convention circuit, and there’s definitely a subset of the menfolk there who are determined to believe that any woman in the building is only there because she’s the girlfriend/spouse of a ‘real’ gamer (ie, one with a penis, and I’m aware that’s cis-talk, but then again, these same dudes would be utterly unable to comprehend non-cis genders, so for them, it’s their mindset).

booburry
7 years ago

I think it is similar to when someone finds some indie/unknown band and really gets into them and then 2 years down the road they are all over the place. You somehow want credit for knowing they existed beforehand…but it is a really stupid thing to get up in arms about.

Cthulhu's Intern
7 years ago

And of all shooters they could pick, why COD and things like that? How about Serious Sam, Painkiller, DOOM, or other ones that are about rocket jumping and killing hundreds of super powered monsters at a time while sprinting at 100 miles an hour nonstop? Or are those too hard for them?

Hell, how about Hotline Miami? It’s very fast-paced, violent, difficult, AND is rather artistic.

tinyorc
7 years ago

@ Karalora

Dudebro: Girls don’t play real games.
Reasonable Person: What constitutes a “real game”?
Dudebro: Any game that girls don’t play.

EXACTLY! It’s like a masterclass in circular reasoning!

Xen
Xen
7 years ago

All I hear is “BAWWW!” Seriously, grow the heck up. Women are human too, amazing right?

Falconer
7 years ago

@emilygoddess: I farmed for the golden chocobo, got the Knights of the Round, and killed Sephiroth in one round.

And then I must have bumped the controller or something because it went straight from Cloud leaping for Tifa’s hand as the battlefield collapsed around them to the credits.

A lot of PS2 JRPGs had plenty for the gamer to spend time on. I remember the golfing games from Dark Cloud and the Factory from Rogue Galaxy. I didn’t spend that much time on them, but I have put in over 100 hours on Oblivion and 50+ on Skyrim.

As for M:tG, it must have depended on where you were and who you played with. I was never deliberately made to feel excluded, but I did have a couple of guys try to rip me off, and I got a shitload of mansplaining. My favorite was the young man who was probably in diapers when I started playing, trying to explain to me how Slivers worked, even after I told him I had been fine-tuning my Sliver deck since Tempest came out almost ten years before.

I haven’t played Magic since like Ravnica and the feudal-Japan themed decks. I like to joke that I stopped playing before they killed banding.

twomoogles
twomoogles
7 years ago

There’s this weird MRA meme about how girls never played video games, made fun of guys who did and horribly abused the nerds…till recently, and now they think it’s cool and want all the video games to be girl-friendly! I dunno, I played NES Mario games when they first came out with my family–mom and brother. The only one who didn’t play was my dad! I’ve been playing video games since I was in elementary school.

I don’t remember there being *tons* of video game playing girls growing up, but it wasn’t freakish by any standards. And the ‘nerd mocking’ was just as likely to come from guys than girls.

Also even if tons of girls 20 years ago *did* make fun of video-game playing guys, that means women *today*, *different* women who did *not* do these things, shouldn’t play video games? That makes absolutely no sense.

It’s like these guys are so resentful that they didn’t have girls fawning over them in high school that they think no women today should ever participate in ‘their’ favourite activities.

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

>>>And of all shooters they could pick, why COD and things like that?

Because it is the most popular and has a huge competitive community, and probably one of the most mainstream games of all times besides maybe Halo series.

Which is also why it is casual shit if they ever need it to be for some other argument (like if you tell them that gamers are mainstream and not niche anymore, at which point they’ll say “yeah but it’s all like casual COD dudebros, not REAL gamers”).

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

I have absolutely no interest in First Person Shooters. Besides the fact that the gameplay would be tough for me to learn… I don’t LIKE shooting things. I live with Sneak, who has the strictest Lawful Good alignment of anyone I know, and playing games that’d upset zer are no fun.

…that said, zie DOES really like horror games. Zie and Gigs are working through a Let’s Play of Silent Hill 2 now. Go figure.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Sneak MAY like VtM:B — there is a fair amount of gore, but if you put points in the social feats you can get out of a lot of fights, and the rest are, um, evilly alligned? Or hunters — defense of self or others. Playing a saintly human is possible, and while FPS is an option, I go third person melee (or unarmed Gangrel this time).

I can give you a fully playable version if you want to give it a go, I’d recommend Malk for obfuscate so you can sneak by a lot of the random things that would otherwise attack you (one downside to that is that if you feed to renew the blood you need to do it, and are in a combat zone, you will have to kill because they’ll attack the moment you release them…I have a guilt trip over killing Grout’s ghouls because of this, I go for the stealth kill when possible — dead before they know you’re there)

Also, I’m a bit obsessed with it 🙂

Biggest downfall for you though might be listening for the guards, but it isn’t mono sound so I think you’d be okay. Lots of the side quests are either straight up good deeds, or have a diplomatic option (e.g. Venus needs some Russians dealt with since if she can’t pay…she’s “not fucking that fat old misogynist pig one more time”, and with high enough persuasion you can get him to sign over her loan to you)

I meant to play a low humanity character this time to see the dialog options, I failed, I’m just too nice. And that freebie tip? Don’t side with Prince Pain in the Ass (and bring a flamethrower to fight Ming Xiao)

Oh and let me do your keyboard first, it’d be far easier to play that way (also, I can install it for you that way if you want)

Pretty much though, if you play it as Sneak’d like to, you’re a light in dark times. And I’m not even kidding, freeing kidnapped vampires and reunited lovers, stopping a Tzimisce terrorizing Hollywood, putting down a demon that’s the sort who, well, “made little girl into hunter”. I like my gory games to involve fighting legit “bad guys”.

——

That’s not a “real game” of course. But I have a Tzimisce to stop! (And then two kidnappees to free and a hunter to help, and, hopefully, a murder to prevent, that one’s a bit harder as you either kill the gangsters and save the guy who gave you the info on their kidnappee, you flee and he dies, or you both die)

Fourth time through, still as fun as ever. But not playing FPS and a decade old so nope, not a real game.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

That got really long, sorry.

BlackSphinx
7 years ago

I really hate those real-gamer-cred-checking dudebros for a lot of reasons, but the biggest one right now is that they make me feel ashamed. I have worked hard for months saving up for a pink 3DS I can play Animal Crossing and Pokemon on, and even though I have time to kill between classes at uni I’d never bring it on campus out of fear of me being used as a prop in some bro’s argument that women aren’t real gamers.

I am a long time lover of JRPGs. I don’t have the best reflexes and first person perspective it kind of hard on me. The only FPS I play are the original Bioshock and Borderlands, which gets this weird stigma of not being a ~real shooter~ even though it has a lot of guys playing it. (’cause it’s not a war game I guess?) I’d pick a Tales of or a Shin Megami Tensei game over CoD or GoW any day of the week, which apparently makes me a stereotypical “girl” who only plays games “casually.”

I shouldn’t feel bad about this, but looking at the Recommended For You section on Amazon after looking up the price of a 3DS and seeing it full of Disney princesses and fashion doll games (while all the other colors are filled with Mario) really did.

saintnick86
7 years ago

The fact many geeks, who were often socially ostracized as kids and wanting things they liked to be taken seriously, become hostile whenever anyone tries to intellectually analyze their hobbies or claim that it should be more accessible is befuddling. I mean – isn’t this a good thing? Sure seems like it to me…

I suppose I’m not surprised by the unwarranted sense of ownership, having dealt with comicbook fans in the past: any changes made to a character were met with contempt, any editorial decisions to try appealing to a wider audience is derided as “political correctness” (I’m so fucking sick of hearing that phrase), and making the outfits of superheroines/supervillainesses less pandering (i.e. less over-sexualized) was treated like blasphemy accompanied with a lot of sexist sentiment. It was disparaging to see publishers listen to them and continue to cater to their tastes but – obviously – they’re never satisfied and would complain over the most minor details. What’s worse is having talented artists and writers who want to do something new and interesting limited by the editors in order to impress fanboys who are never impressed anyway.

saintnick86
7 years ago

*Well, DISAPPOINTING anyway – not disparaging…

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I really think the underlying problem here is that some geeks think that they were ostracised becauses of the stuff they were into, whereas in fact they were ostracised because of their awkward personalities or their unconventional looks. I can see why trying to blame what happened to them on their hobbies would be easier than admitting that it really was about them as people, but the problem is that it’s not true, and it’s fuelling this weird sense of ownership towards the hobbies, the boundary policing around those hobbies, and so on.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Cassandra – yes, it probably wouldn’t have matttered what they were into; if they were bullied, the bullies would have treated anything about them with contempt. It also says little for their mega geek male thinking brains that they just turn around and try to treat women the same way. (Well, okay, perhaps about their emotional development, but since they pride themselves on their Grate Male Brainz we’ll go with that.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

It’s like the idea that being really intelligent gets you bullied. Nope, intelligent + awkward/unattractive/some other factor that kids can pick at because they’re assholes makes you a target. Really smart people who’re also conventionally attractive with excellent social skills don’t get bullied for being smart.

saintnick86
7 years ago

The notion that videogames made them ostracized is particularly absurd, but I say that as someone who went to a school where playing videogames was common amongst every clique. If you openly liked comics or anime, that might get you insulted and/or tormented (if only as an excuse for context than “’cause I felt like it”), but just about everyone – popular or unpopular – was into them. Given a lot of these guys are probably around my age, I call bullshit on their claim.

The reality is that bullies don’t give a shit what you are into as much as how open you are as a target for derision and a candidate as a human punching bag. They simply used those hobbies, as long as they weren’t mainstream, as a way to deflect the real reason they were doing so in the first place.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

@Howard

AoE II was my favorite game when I was a preteen. I just found an updated version of the first and second game at my local Half Price Books. Best investment ever.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

That’s the point, the stuff is an excuse to bully someone, it’s not the actual reason for the bullying. If the person being bullied wasn’t into games or comics then the bullies would have found something else to torment them about.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Let’s see…

Bullied for —

Being a techie? Nope.
VtM? Nope (heck, I got invited to a failed attempt at D&D)
President of the GSA and openly bi? Nope.
Androgynous look? Nope.
Goth? Well, only the day I accidentally wore my cape on the Harry Potter opening (the rest of the techies wanted to see it and I scheduled that around when I knew I wouldn’t be painting, pure bad luck)
Bookworm? Sorta, but not exactly.
Pulling Bs without trying? Only when I wouldn’t let the jocks and cheerleaders cheat.
Math whiz? Nope, and that sort doesn’t take honors math (I opted out of honors science to avoid the teacher from hell and dissecting a cat, a rat was bad enough [though I did leave the skin attached at the neck and fly it around the room as Super Rat before continuing {laughed with, not at for that}])

Awkward kid who preferred books? Dum dum dum! There we have it!

lowquacks
lowquacks
7 years ago

@sarahlizhousespouse

Same here! Except sub “illegally torrented” for “found at Half Price Bookshop”. Excellent game even some 10 years later, and I’m not even one for videogames at all usually.

katz
7 years ago

Whether they actually got bullied for the reasons they say is not the point; the point is that regardless of why they were bullied, it’s not reasonable to exclude other people as a response.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Not least since those people aren’t the ones who bullied, them, and if being-a-geek were the real reason these guys were put upon, the geek women would have copped exactly the same shit.

Jessay (@jessay)
7 years ago

Yeaaaah, pretty much everyone I knew at least played some video games, male or female, in all social groups. My brother was always given the video game systems for Christmas and birthdays but I always played with him, along with my male and female cousins, and all our friends of both sexes. I had my own gameboy, but we shared the nintendos and whatnot. It wasn’t so much the playing video games that made people outcasted as “nerds” but something more about their personality. But for every nerd group there were girls who were just as much outcasts, and so they just dated each other. I’m really puzzled when I hear about the plight of the nerd. No, they generally didn’t get the cheerleader girlfriend, but the female nerd wasn’t exactly landing the BMOC either. I had just as hard a time landing a man in high school as an “emo” drama geek as my brother did being into video games and heavy metal. But these dudes will say I was just friendzoning men and that’s why I was alone. LOL, yeah, ok buddy. Me and all my girlfriends were just turning men down left and right and complaining about nothing, surrreee.

If you’re an adult still stuck on high school drama you have bigger problems than women playing your video games.

Jessay (@jessay)
7 years ago

Oh and speaking of Sci-Fi and MRA’s, I watched the Matrix in full tonight for the first time maybe since it came out, and I was laughing at how MRA’s use the “red pill” analogy and completely ignore the pro-feminism aspects of the movie, including the main female character rolling her eyes at Keanu Reaves for reading about her hacking skills and assuming she was a man just like most men do. Women in male spaces amirite?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Trying to understand why people cling to those social dynamics is even harder if you didn’t go to that sort of high school. I went to a girls boarding school with a bunch of toffs – I was as alternative as it gets and one of my best friends was a hardcore jock, best runner at our school. Me – goth looking, dating dudes with long hair, into obnoxiously loud music. Her – blonde and blue eyed, loved boy bands, wholesome as it gets. Nobody thought it was weird that we were friends.