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Men’s Rights Redditor on Gaming: “It would be nice if women/feminists … f**ked off and created their own thing rather than moving into a men’s space … .”

George Eliot: Should she have been alllowed to play video games?
George Eliot: Should she have been allowed to play Call of Duty?

So the other day the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit were having another thoughtful and nuanced discussion about OMG WOMEN PLAYING VIDEO GAMES GET OUT GIRL GERMS EWWWW GAMING IS FOR MEN ONLY HELP HELP WE’RE BEING OPPRESSED and the always insightful IHaveALargePenis offered this little suggestion to the “feminists/women” of the world:

IHaveALargePenis 25 points 6 days ago (51|26)  It would be nice if women/feminists for once fucked off and created their own thing rather than moving into a men's space (after decades of berating it and the men participating in it) and demanding things change to suit them.  Remember revenge of the nerds? A movie that's about 30 years old? All those "nerds" are the ones in charge of modern technology. They're the Bill Gates' and Steve Jobs' of today and people love their products. They didn't have it easy getting to where they did, they sure as shit weren't given a green light for simply being men. So why is it that women aren't walking down the same road? Hell it's not even the same road since most people don't actively insult them or tell them they can't do it for simply being women.  It would be nice if feminists for once proved everyone wrong and themselves right by getting a bunch of women together and creating a new system/industry from the ground up which men want to flock to.

Huh. So in return I guess men would agree to hand science fiction over to the ladies — after all, it was one of them, Mary Shelley, who basically invented the whole genre back in 1818 with her mad-scientist classic Frankenstein.

Mr. Penis also gets bonus points for explicitly conflating women and feminists — most MRAs do this only implicitly, and then pretend they haven’t — and wins this month’s “Really? You Really Just Said That?” MRA Irony Award for declaring in his second paragraph that “people don’t actively insult [women] or tell them they can’t [get involved in nerdy pursuits] for simply being women” after he JUST DID EXACTLY THAT ONE PARAGRAPH EARLIER.

One brave commenter responded to Mr. Penis’ screed with a detailed list of infliential women in the gaming industry. Amazingly, this comment wasn’t downvoted into oblivion, though it is worth noting that it got considerably fewer net upvotes that Mr. Penis’ masterpiece.

The thread, naturally, is full of poop from other contributors as well. Cthulusbaby not only doesn’t want women playing or expressing opinions about games; he doesn’t even want imaginary women in his games. No Manic Pixel Dream Girls for him!

Also, he seems to be under the impression that there are no men in romance movies.*

Cthulusbaby 4 points 5 days ago* (9|5)      what right do men have to claim an entire subculture as "their own space"?  When they are the overwhelming majority of consumers for it? Seriously, look at the demographics of men vs women for games like COD and Gears of War and explain how these online communities AREN'T male spaces?  I don't want female soldiers in my games about elite special forces, because in real life there are no female navy seals or SAS. Women just don't belong, there's no need for them in these games. I like my shoot-em-ups to be testosterone fuelled aggression simulators, not equal opportunity political propaganda.  It's exactly the same as a small but vocal minority of men complaining about male representation in sappy romance movies, and a shit ton of other men jumping on the bandwagon even though they've got no actual interest in it.      Also, you put an unfair and extremely skewed amount of blame on women for the amount of stigmatization placed on "nerds" back in the day. Sure there are women who berate gamers but I think mass media as a whole hasn't been doing that subculture any favors and to say that women are more to blame for that is completely unfounded and absurd.  I think you'll find that women are the primary consumers of TV media, and women are the ones who decide what is attractive and desirable in men. You'll notice that since the "nerd" archetype became more attractive to women, it's moved more into the mainstream and is no longer as socially unacceptable. You really think that is coincidence?  Upvoting you for providing an alternative viewpoint, but you're really misguided.

Acolmiztli, meanwhile, sheds a tear for the nerds that came before him:

acolmiztli 3 points 5 days ago (5|2)  Men were raised in a culture where playing video games was grounds for social pariah status and open hostility. It was amazing that anyone developed a love for computer games to the point of wanting to make it their career!!

Evidently the only way to rectify this past injustice is to do the same thing to women today? It’s the MEN’S RIGHTS WAY!

And hey, if women don’t like it, well, they can always just hide their gender identity. (On the Internet no one knows you’re George Eliot.)

poloppoyop 2 points 5 days ago (4|2)  A lot of free tools have been available for years to make games. Anyone can take the time to learn things, participate in open source softwares etc. If teenagers do it, I don't see what prevents women to do the same. Their gender? Nope, internet offers anonymity so you can participate in some project and people will consider you male until proven otherwise.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

Sometimes all it takes to solve these silly lady problems is some good old-fashioned male ingenuity,

H/T to Againstmensrights on Reddits for pointing out Mr. Penis’ lovely remark, and making the same point about science fiction.

* Note to extremly literal-minded readers: I am not actually suggesting that Cthulusbaby thinks there are no men in romance movies. It is just that the way he is framing the issue is so ridiculous he might as well think that.

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marinerachel
marinerachel
11 years ago

How are any of David’s criticisms exclusive to men? All of them apply equally to women who spew the same nonsense.

ahostileworld
11 years ago

Really? Mary Shelley ‘invented’ science fiction? The ancient Greeks didn’t have anything to do with it? Voltaire did not live before Shelley’s time?

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

Wait, wait, we just mentioned that women PLAY games and design them. How does this make them better than men?

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
11 years ago

I’m first going to comment to the fact that the writer indicates Mark Shelley as the founder for science fiction

Freudian slip?

cloudiah
11 years ago

Apparently talking about women in anything other than the most negative ways is male-shaming. MISANDRY.

I have so many questions about this post, but as they expose my total ignorance of how people game that I am loathe to ask them.And I am also too lazy to Google for the answers. Also, I need to go to the market. … I may never learn the truth.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

LBT — email me that shit! Please.

Re: Frankenstein’s Monster and that writing contest in general — Polidori’s The Vamyre is credited as invented vampires stories as we know them. Very Eurocentric as vampires have a long history in places like Romania, but nonetheless they both pretty much started new genres from what was a friendly writing contest (backstory, the Shelleys and Polidori went to visit Lord Byron and got stuck inside thanks to shitty weather, the results of their boredom made history)

serrana
serrana
11 years ago

Really? Mary Shelley ‘invented’ science fiction? The ancient Greeks didn’t have anything to do with it? Voltaire did not live before Shelley’s time?

Brian Aldiss, who wrote Trillion Year Spree: The History of Science Fiction is of the opinion that modern science fiction originated with Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. You could argue with this, sure, but it’s not something David just made up.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
11 years ago

There’s ancient Greek sci-fi? You’re not talking about stuff like the Odyssey, are you?

But yeah, there’s a difference between the occasional fantastical work and a viable, relatively popular genre, and the publication and popularity of Frankenstein seems to have been the watershed moment for the latter.

ignotussomnium
11 years ago

I love the idiot who said that if you don’t state what gender you are people will assume you’re a guy. They got so, so close to self-awareness and then jammed their fingers in their ears and ran blindly past it.

Civilization II is what my cousin used to keep me busy whenever he baby-sat. xD I still love the franchise, though I really wish that they’d make a new Alpha Centauri. That game was the best.

But no, women should create their own completely separate thing all on their own. It’s not like things women create with women in mind are deemed “stupid girl stuff,” hounded by assholes whining about misandry, or become popular with men who then complain loudly when it doesn’t pander to them.

lane deau
11 years ago

I like my shoot-em-ups to be testosterone fuelled aggression simulators

Sometimes I’m really glad for using an OS incompatible with almost all games.

By the way, his argument of “other kids were mean with nerds, and it’s all women’s fault” is pretty weird. I don’t know how it worked in MRA High, pretty much 100% of the bullies in my school were men.

Shaenon said:

“Yoshi’s Island” is pretty much the best game of all time.

Yoshi’s Island was great! It was sort of a guilty pleasure for me. Even though I never owned that cartridge, I still remember some of its music.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
11 years ago

Oddly, ahostileworld isn’t completely wrong. Most of the elements of modern science fiction were around when Mary Shelley put them together. Then Mary Shelley put them together.

This is what inventing something means. You know — like the Wright Brothers didn’t invent wings, propellers, the internal combustion engine, timber frames or canvas, they just put all these things together to make something new.

The concept that a great invention is the work of a singular act of inspired personal genius is a trope popularised in the novel Frankenstein, by Mary Shelley

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

Wow, I had no idea some folks would get so whiny about the idea that Mary Shelley created fanfiction. Why does Voltaire or the Greeks get the credit? At least with Mary Shelley, we have a REASON. (It’s about a scientist using SCIENCE! which uses it to explore the human condition and the possibilities of the future.)

RE: Argenti

I can’t email a CD to you! (Two, actually — one has the installation, the other the game itself.) And I don’t know if I COULD copy them.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III
11 years ago

Also to the “there was science fiction before Shelley!” crowd: you always seem to forget proto-sf authors Margaret Cavendish and Aphra Behn. Wonder why that is…

yaoi huntress earth
yaoi huntress earth
11 years ago

Anyone else getting images of the Fat, Ugly or Slutty website while reading that?

BigMomma
BigMomma
11 years ago

I am 42 and my husband is 41. Both of us started gaming in the late 70s and a feature of the early part of our relationship in the early 90s was gaming until the sun came up. Not so much now cos kids and work. I have to say,neither of us was an outcast because of gaming. People who gamed were interested,those who didn’t, weren’t. The most I can say is that MrBigMomma’s interest was never questioned, whereas people have been mildly surprised by mine.

Running Civ 5 at the moment, hubby playing assassins’ creed.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

“I can’t email a CD to you! (Two, actually — one has the installation, the other the game itself.) And I don’t know if I COULD copy them.”

Shit, and my CD drive is dead! I have the windows install, but it breaks under XP and I can’t find a license key for 95. However…bring them? I assume pecunium has a working CD drive and I have a flash drive and skillz…we’ll see what I can do?

Falconer
11 years ago

Lately I’ve been spending all my free time on Nature Games’ Infant Simulator 2013. It is awesome, and the graphics are cutting-edge. It’s a real edge of the seat game, no saving allowed.

Pity the DLC’s so pricey.

radiantsophia
11 years ago

Hey… MtG isn’t a “niche geek pursuit”, is it? Not a video game, but same kind of overwhelmingly hostile to women, “you aren’t supposed to be here” thing. Most Fridays I am the only female-bodied person out of ~40 at the local brick & mortar.

BigMomma
BigMomma
11 years ago

Lol Falconer…I just got that, slow on uptake much?

Am able to comment as my 4yr old is still asleep at 9.30am. Have checked to make sure she is alive of course.

BigMomma
BigMomma
11 years ago

Damn, that’s a cute baby. How old are they now? Teething yet?

Hyena Girl
11 years ago

The college DLC’s expensive but its safer on the save integrity than the CoD DLC for the simulator.

Biot
Biot
11 years ago

Darnit, Falconer, you had me at that one. “Infant Simulator 2013” sounded so much like “Street Sweeper Simulator 2011” or “Surgeon Simulator 2013” that I thought, “Oh great, ANOTHER shoddily-built game designed to make a quick profit off of the lulz generated by its nonsensical premise?”
Only then did I put my brain into gear.