So the Red Pill subreddit, as you may recall, is a place for dudes to discuss the devious and possibly not altogether ethical or even consensual strategies they’ve come up with to … have sex with anyone they want. But their real goal is not just to have sex, but to control other people’s opinions and thoughts of them doing so. They want to silence all critics, and then even demand praise for their morally reprehensible or at least morally questionable actions.
Woah. It feels like my brain was just taken over for a second. Did I even write that? I don’t think I did. I swear I’ve read most of that paragraph before.
Oh wait.
Oh yeah. That’s where it came from. I must have been possessed.
The Red Pill subreddit, where lying to women to get them into bed is perfectly acceptable but a woman having consensual sex is a reprehensible, narcissistic slattern with a gymnastic hamster for a brain.
NOTE: I found this quote through the always helpful Blue Pill subreddit.
Also I think it’s an interesting data point that literally the only times men have ever called me a slut have been directly after, and as a result of, my declining their suggestion that I should have sex with them. I think that’s a pretty good indicator that “slut” does not, in the way it’s typically used, actually mean “woman who has a lot of sex”. It mostly seems to mean “woman who’s pissing me off by not having the specific kind of sex I want her to have”.
That’s how I interpret it. Those guys will say they want a challenge, and then brag about overcoming her “last minute resistance”, if they’re PUA’s. Oh, but they get mad when feminists say it’s coercive and rapey.
To make it even, better, make it Scott Bakula dressed like a handyman. He could also pull off the sexy farmer thing, too.
Yeah, that was awesome. I’m almost looking forward to the next time someone says the key/lock thing just so I can use that comeback.
This. And the whole rule of “man must get his orgasm” also means that a cis woman on her period or recovering from childbirth is then obligated to give blow jobs or hand jobs rather than piv sex. Maybe it’s selfishness like that causes so many hetero women to consider sex to be a chore.
And it fits into the view of women being property. An unmarried woman doesn’t have an “owner” but she could in the future. That means that any sex she has is at the expense of her future husband, or “owner”. Some people would describe her as being the property of the father until she gets married, too.
Now if she was having sex with other women, then she’d deal with both homophobia and slut shaming, although there are some who wouldn’t slut shame her the same way because they think that sex without a penis involved doesn’t count.
Why can’t people just look at it like any other physical demonstration of affection/warm feelings/source of enjoyment? You don’t see people going around sulking about their partner having hugged other people before and that making the hugs they share somehow less valuable/meaningful/enjoyable. If you tell your partner about that awesome meal you had one time while on vacation they don’t throw a tantrum about how unfair it is that they weren’t a guest at the same meal too.
Did I hear that someone else needs a welcome package?
I also remember the slut shaming line “If she had as many dicks sticking out of her as she’s had stuck in her, she’d be a porcupine!” Um, what? Please show me a penis porcupine woman before I can decide this is a valid concern.
I don’t think that being covered in cocks would be a very good self-defense mechanism for a small animal. Evolution fail.
Yeah, I agree that slut-shaming of women is much worse.
I think guys who, um, asshole-shame?, other men are usually “incels” who’re all like “women are so horrible, they won’t sleep with me who’s NICE and RESPECT them but they’ll happily sleep with an asshole like X over there who totally DISRESPECTS women by having sex with them all the time. Women just want assholes and I can’t get laid because I’m too nice!”.
I do think this is fairly common, and that’s why it’s not entirely correct to say that men are totally only admired for having sex with lots of women… Although the above is obviously motivated by jealousy, it’s not “X over there is such a great guy for having sex with all these women!” but “X is horrible because he has sex with all these women (and I CAN’T!)”
And whether slut-shaming is motivated by the belief that women are acting against their own interests (because women don’t really want sex, only love) or merely that female sexual agency is a bad thing because female sex ought to be owned by a man… I think these two are usually so tangled up that it’s hard to see what’s what.
On this topic, I just remembered that there was this troll here once who just assumed that me and Hellkell were lying to our husbands about our slutty past, because obviously nobody would have married us knowing that we used to sleep around quite a lot. Troll was like “Well, if there’s nothing wrong with sleeping around, how come you LIE TO YOUR HUSBANDS about it? Ha, gotcha!” and me and Hellkell were like “Um, we don’t?”.
My husband knows pretty much everything I got up to back in the day. Doesn’t care.
I’m curious; can you please elaborate on why you think both beliefs are tangled up? I’ve never heard of that perspective.
Hey, did everyone see there’s a brand new A Voice for Pierre?
Oddly, the only time I’ve heard someone called a “slut” was when a college friend of mine referred to her ex-boyfriend by that word. He actually was one of those who have a really hard time saying “no”.
Bu if women decided to be chaste, these guys would be bitching about what stuck-up prudes we are.
Sorry if this is TMI, but I’ve had some fun back in my day. And my husband thinks it’s hot. Instead of being jealous, he’s like “Details, please!”. So these guys are just projecting their own jealousy and insecurity onto all hetero men.
I’ve been called a slut. IRL, but a majority of the time online. Actually, several of us were called sluts on here by a troll…….I can’t remember who though.
Ally, I was thinking that “this person doesn’t know her own good” and “this person shouldn’t have any agency” can be two sides of the same coin. If someone doesn’t know her own good, then it’s better that others decide for her and control her, right?
I haven’t given super much thought to this, but it seems to me as if the same people often talk about women who sleep around having “low self respect” (i e they’re not doing what’s good for themselves) and throw around ideas indicating that female sexual agency is a bad thing.
Didn’t we just finish a big wankfest over this?
It’s foolonomics. Like economics, but for people who think the women aren’t people – fools.
IF female sex (and the female sex, pun pun) is really the property of a man, THEN any female who does anything other with her sexuality than using it to ensare some alpha is doing badly. She is doing her future prospective owner a bad thing, and she is doing herself a bad turn by devaluing her sex to other, future prospective owners.
I am so, so sorry I had to write that sentence.
Why is that economics, or, errr, foolonomics, the silly name I just made up?
Because it assumes sex is a payment women make to men, for a purpose. They trade their sex for love / affection / safety / belonging / bonding / whateverthefuck.
Sex is the unit of transfer for something else, because no woman really wants just-sex, in this little shorthand. It’s a price they pay for some other, nebolous service.
So any woman who does something with her own sexuality that doesn’t led directly, inexonorably towards getting set up with a man is doing herself a disservice, and also devaluing the market for everyone else. So she’s really acting against her own interests, by having all that consenual, interesting and enjoyable sex with people she likes, becauser her own interests are not hers to decide – her interests are actually something else, and she is selling herself short by not securing them, with her sex, that is of limited payment value, because it’ll degrade over time and then no man will sell her affection, care and love for it any more! She needs to be more responsible, and respect herself more, right? Right?
Fuck. That.
You hear that kind of jargon a lot, and it’s really, really, really, really, really, really, I would keep going but you get the point, stupid.
Like the quote in OP – “They say they want, and they do, but they really are… and really do…”
Sigh.
I’m pretty sure that’s supposed to be a Pedobear costume.
Cloudiah – thanks for the link to Pierre. I quite enjoyed that one, and may share it with my sixteen year old son. Whenever I see a particularly apt anti-misogynist cartoon online, I’ll show it to him – conditioning him to see misogyny as a bad thing might help.
*snort* My husband was the designated rebound man for a while, and had PLENTY of sexual history before me. This does not bother me; I wouldn’t have married a serial flirt if it did. Hell, it makes me feel better, because it emphasizes to me that my rapey past wasn’t the norm. He had a long, happy sex life before meeting me, and that’s a good thing.
He knows about the shit that happened to me, but honestly, I’ve probably shared fewer details about mine than his; it’s upsetting and makes him sad.
@Fibinachi
I see. Thanks for the explanation.
Also, long time no see!
Hm. Maybe the reason these guys accuse feminists of saying all sex is rape is because *they* believe rape is sex.
Aw, thanks for the welcome, everybody. I’ve been reading Manboobz and chortling for months, and I feel like I know many of you. I’ve also been led to many great blogs from here.
I should have mentioned also that I’m a cis woman.
Cloudiah, I read your interchange with that person about Ms. Magazine which is why I mentioned it. Ms. Magazine, far from being a hotbed of hate, was just a bit boring, more for women who wanted to succeed in a man’s world rather than tear down the patriarchy. Or so it seemed to me.
Hey, I think you’re right, BritterSweet. Some people don’t want to wrap their heads around the idea that the time-honoured method of getting someone so drunk they don’t know what’s happening and then doing what they want is actually rape, because that would make them rapists.
Any bloke with a willy like this would be mostly out of luck, I’m thinking.