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A Voice for Men falsely accuses a male feminist blogger of being a “confessed rapist,” because “karma is a BITCH.”

A Voice for Men's Paul Elam: Serial False Accuser
A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam: Serial False Accuser

When is a false rape accusation not a false rape accusation? When it’s leveled against a feminist man.

That, in any case, is the logic behind an appalling post on A Voice for Men attempting to smear a male feminist blogger named Jason Thibeault, who posts on FreeThoughtBlogs as Lousy Canuck, by proclaiming him a rapist.

The post is a typical bit of AVFM “satire” — that is, sophistry — arguing that “by his own feminist standards” Thibeault is a rapist … because he was once accused of rape by a girlfriend, as he wrote about in a recent post. And since feminists believe that ALL accusations of rape are true, AVFM’s Birric Forcella argues, Thibeault is thus a “confessed rapist.”

Obviously, this argument is ludicrous on its face. Feminists don’t believe that all accusations of rape are automatically true. And Thibeault, for his part, says that he was falsely accused.

This doesn’t stop AVFM from giving their piece the frankly libelous headline: “FreeThoughtBlogs’ Jason Thibeault, confessed rapist.”

AVFM may defend its post as “satire” — they have a rather expansive definition of the word — but that headline is pure libel. It’s false — and would be so even if the accusations of rape were true, as Thibeault (who’s responded to the AVFM post here) maintains his innocence.

And AVFM’s intent is clearly malicious. In the first comment to the piece, AVFM founder and publisher Paul Elam declares frankly, and revealingly, “Karma is a BITCH.”

Thibeault’s real crime, in AVFM’s eyes, is that he has publicly supported women who have come forward in recent weeks to accuse prominent skeptic writer Michael Shermer of rape and sexual assault.

And so they have responded by making what is an unequivocally false accusation against him in a headline on their site.

Of course, this isn’t the first time A Voice for Men has falsely accused someone of something based on bad evidence or no evidence at all.

In April of this year, Elam (along with a number of other MRAs and an assortment of White Supremacists as well) worked himself into an uproar over a blog post from an alleged feminist allegedly working in a college admission office who claimed she was routinely trashing applications from white males.

Though even the most rudimentary amount of fact-checking would have revealed that the woman they blamed for the blog had nothing to do with it, she had her contact information posted online by MRAs and others, leaving her open to harassment and widespread vilification. Elam contributed to the hubbub by posting a vituperative post identifying the wrong woman by name — and only after being called on his mistake by numerous other MRAs did his finally retract the post.

You can read about the whole appalling affair here.

Elam has also made false accusations against little old me. In yet another case of libel-by-headline, he accused Jessica Valenti and me of being “child abusers” … because we’re feminists. (Seriously, that was the entire basis of his accusation.)

And at one point, either lying outright or misled by a  troll, he put forth the absurd conspiracy theory that I was somehow responsible for an appalling Reddit forum known as the Beatingwomen subreddit.

In his post on the subject, he claimed to have “intel” from two separate sources that “confirm[ed]” my involvement in the subreddit — he provided none of this evidence — and promised that “further word” on the subject would be forthcoming.

Of course, this evidence never materialized — because it was fraudulent and/or imaginary. Elam dropped the subject. I had and have no connection to the subreddit.

And not long ago, AVFM’s Dean Esmay very publicly accused its former Canadian News Director Kristina Mendez (AKA TheWoolyBumblebee) of (maybe, possibly) running off with the money she collected for a center devoted to the memory of Earl Silverman, a Canadian MRA who committed suicide partially out of frustration over the difficulties he had in funding the DV shelter for men he ran out of his home. The folks at AVFM have admitted quite plainly that they have no evidence of wrongdoing here.

Apparently, AVFM’s strategy is to prove that false accusations are common by making as many of them as they possibly can.

EDIT: Added the bit about Valenti and me.

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Shiraz
Shiraz
7 years ago

Dudes who show up trying to dictate to feminists can’t let go of the notion that they’re not the center of the universe (which apparently has an asshole).

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Hey CassandraSays, speaking of which, do you have any advice on how to help teenagers with creeps they can’t recognize?

It hasn’t come up lately, but back when I was on chats more often, there were a couple REALLY skeezy creeper guys who would hit on ANYONE presumed female–even lesbians and me. (It was a GLBT chat, he was a “straight ally.”) A bunch of the girls didn’t seem to recognize the creepery, and I didn’t really know how to warn them, especially since he was a self-pity sot.

He would do things like randomly send chat actions like ‘hugs you,’ and I would be like, “I don’t know you. Don’t do that.” And get a response like, “y do you hate me? :(” I, of course, am old, married, and prickly, so had no problem saying, “I don’t even know you. I’m not talking to you,” but kids, you know.

katz
7 years ago

It is a contradiction in terms, a logical impossibility. The two things necessarily exclude each other.

Fidelbogen: Never saying something once when he can say it 3 times.

In unrelated news, I stayed up last night eating frosted mini-wheats, then had a giant donut for breakfast and nothing for the rest of the day except cake in the afternoon. I now have a stomach ache. Causal relationship?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

@ LBT

Hmm, I’d have to get more directly involved in the situation to help, because it depends on the kids and how good they are at setting boundaries, but in general I feel like the best thing older people can do to help is make it clear that setting boundaries is a GOOD thing and not something you should feel guilty about. Also if/when they tell you about the sketchy behavior making it really clear just how not OK you think that behavior is. Reinforce their own sense of something’s not quite right about this and let them know that you have their backs, basically.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Also! Pointing out manipulation when you see it. Like, that “do u hate me, wah sadface” thing? So manipulative, and so worth pointing out what bullshit it is.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: CassandraSays

Yeah, this was something I ran into fucking YEARS ago, it’s just something that still bugs me because I’m sure I’ll run into it again. (We’re kinda a weird Multi Dear Abby for teenagers on DeviantArt. Still not sure how that happened.)

I tried to deal with it by laying down my boundaries firmly and refusing to be guilt-tripped, (“I don’t hate you; I don’t know you. I don’t want to talk to you.”) but still pretty sure it was spun to be, “Aw, why you being so mean, he’s such a Nice Guy!”

Dude, you were hitting on lesbian teenagers and ME, who is married and has no interest in your heterosexual ass. You are NOT nice.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

For some reason I never get the “but why are you being so mean?” crap except from the creeps themselves. Not quite sure why, actually.

kittehserf
7 years ago

markb – sorry, I should have expanded on that! There’s been a lot of rape-related threads on Pharyngula lately, and the usual complement of “but what if” trolls, whether of the “but what if you’re both drunk?” or “but what if she’s underage in this state but not that state?” types. The latter invaded when talking about that poor girl in Montana.

Someone described the situation vis-a-vis underage people very well, talking about a society where Class A has all the legal power, as well as the power of age, experience, etc, and Class B has no legal power at all; they can’t drive, vote, drink, etc, etc, and spend at least eight hours a day in a setting where they are under Class A’s direct control. The point was about how even someone on the cusp of going from Class B to Class A – reaching legal adulthood – still has none of the legal power of a Class A person. The relationship cannot be equal, simply because of that power differential.

That’s what I had in mind with your MRA troll and his claims of a child being able to make up her own mind about whether she’s ready for sex. He’s presumably not talking about kids together but about children being available to adults.

I’ll go look for the comment if you like, it was laid out much better than my summary here.

kittehserf
7 years ago

My own wish is for feminism to walk through the exit door of the universe.

My god.

THE UNIVERSE HAS AN ASSHOLE???

Yes, and it’s closer than you think! One of our former Prime Ministers said Oz was the arse end of the world. 😛

cloudiah
7 years ago

@katz, CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION. EAT MOAR CAKE. (No seriously, I think that correlation does equal causation in this case, and you should have an antacid and no more sugar for a while.)

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Kittehserf

That seems highly unfair! I went to your country and what I saw was quite nice.

RE: katz

I can’t imagine eating that much sugar in a go. I’m with cloudiah on this one.

kittehserf
7 years ago

LBT – yeah, Keating didn’t win any friends by saying that!

lousycanuck
7 years ago

LBT: I don’t think a lot of people *really* have that much trouble with my name, since the prime folks motivated to abuse it have presently taken to calling me “Thimbledick” (um, hello, misandry?). This is marginally better than my previous appelation, “Justin Bieber”.

Also: hells yes, more The Tick.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“or “but what if she’s underage in this state but not that state?” types.”

Argh do they have issues with the concept of age difference? Cuz I’ve violated that one. Had my ex-fiancé’s mother known we were fucking, my ass would’ve been toast as MA is a strict over/under 18 while CT has age brackets — I’m two months older, so sexytimes in MA between our birthdays was technically stat rape. Perfectly legal in June, and October, but the end of July through the end of September? Nope, stop fucking your fiancé.

Versus a goddamned teacher in his 30s and a young teen! 14 being legal in some states is moot to the power differential! (It’s legal here…assuming the older partner isn’t more than two years older, or in a position of authority)

That’s never okay (looking at you Hugo. Fucking. Schwyzer.) — like, I have a friend who had a crush on his TA — senior undergrad and young grad student TA, he waited until the semester ended, asked her to coffee, and asked her out over coffee, she declined, life moved on. Why’d he wait? Didn’t want to put her in the awkward position of still having authority over him and being asked that.

Why do these people not have functioning logic centers? Replacing motherboards and logic boards is maybe within my skill set, but theirs are BERs (beyond economical repair and about half the electronics in the shop have been stamped with that stamp)

markb
markb
7 years ago

“Versus a goddamned teacher in his 30s and a young teen!”
The teacher was 49. 30 was the number of days the judge gave him.

pecunium
7 years ago

Some context for Dworkin, McKinnon, et al:

I remember the radio explaining that men raping their husbands was now a crime someplace, and finding this shocking. I also recall (about the same time) hearing that non-marital cohabitation was taken off the list of illegal things in some other place.

This was ca 1977. The ’70s were a strange mix of progressive, regressive, and aggressive. Plato’s Retreat was a business (public sex club), there was a whole lot more nudity in movies, but Anita Bryant was dominating the headlines (and explaining that “original sin” was Eve giving Adam a blowjob, and that was the big sin of homosexuals).

Against all of that (and the ERA being killed, and women becoming cadets at West Point, and all the hullabaloo that caused) the feminists who were actually looking at how society looked at sex don’t seem all that out of place.

I also don’t think they were all that, “sex negative” so much as, “this is a fucked up dynamic, and until it’s changed sex is really problematic”. Not so much that there couldn’t be relationships that had healthy sex, but that society put a gloss on sex that meant even healthy sex carried unhealthy baggage.

pecunium
7 years ago

One of the things that I see (speaking as someone who was coming to the age of reasoned thought in the middle seventies, and sexually active in the middle eighties) is that the 2nd Wave had a strong effect on me. When I look at people like Scalzi (who is just a bit younger than I), I think the same.

My sense of “That shit is WRONG!” is strongly shaped by having read those women talking about how the male/female dynamic was fucked up, and not wanting to have anything to do with it.

That (I hope) has made things better (at least in my part of the world). If enough people came to that same set of moral views, then the world will get better by that much. Not overnight, but one small step at a time.

leftwingfox
7 years ago

“A Feminist who is an “MRA”, is like a Square Which is a Circle”

(Because I’m feeling devastated after the massive rape story thread on Pharyngula and need Muppets.)

kittehserf
7 years ago

Argenti – of course they ignore the power differential, age differences and positions of authority, because it suits them to. These guys may not be rapists but it’s crystal clear they want to be.

It’s like the other thing pointed out in Pharyngula – the grenade thread, iirc, or one of the ones that followed it recently – re: all the talk about grey areas.

Crossing the line into a black area (consent-wise) means you’re a rapist; crossing the line into a grey area means you’re willing to be a rapist.

kittehserf
7 years ago

leftwingfox – hugs if you want ’em.

pecunium
7 years ago

and now I need to get to bed (because I have to work tomorrow. Hell, the only day I’m not working until at least next sunday [about which I don’t know yet] is Monday).

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Cat gifs also upthread if you want them.

And yeah, part of my discomfort about some of the modern criticisms of second wave feminists is that honestly, those women changed our sexual culture in a really profound way. The stuff they say may seem dated now, but that’s not because they were wrong when they said it, it’s because to a certain extent they succeeded in what they set out to do.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“Versus a goddamned teacher in his 30s and a young teen!”
The teacher was 49. 30 was the number of days the judge gave him.

Well shit, that’s what I get for not looking these things up before commenting! Thanks for the correction.

Pecunium — there’s a reason I’m fond of “that’s some shit right there”. Too bad MRAs are so far over the line that I never have cause to say it here.

Kitteh — well yes, of course they want to excuse rape. I’m wary on labeling all grey area sex as wannabe rapist though — “is this consent?” = wannabe rapist, “is this thing we both really want to do actually legal?” = consent (dear gods I number of times I have violated CT obscenity laws! [with consenting people and thus fuck that noise])

Maybe I’m just disinclined to give a shit about the exact wording of the laws (I am, after all, playing a pirated copy of a game I do own, but lost the key for) and more inclined tmworry about the actual morality of the situation — making their creepy really creepy even if legal, and consensual but illegal things not remotely creepy.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Pecunium — oh is that where you’ve been? I’m sorry, that sucks. G’night!

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Bleh. Rape threads always tend to send me into emotional upset. The mass amount of apologism (HI THERE ANONGUY) still serves to send me into frothing rage sometimes.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

LESS CREEPY ANONS, MORE KITTIES.

kittehserf
7 years ago

It’s the trolls’ ideas of grey areas that get the “you’re willing to be a rapist” response, Argenti. They’re seldom talking about two people wanting to do something, or getting consent before getting drunk, or getting ongoing consent. The few who are tend to get the response of “If in doubt, don’t,” when it’s about drunk sex on Pharyngula. Which seems fair: it’s not like Not Fucking Immediately ever killed anyone, and who would prefer to take the chance on genuine consent than leave it for another time except … someone who’s willing to be a rapist? But the majority are the usual rules-lawyers who want to know precisely how drunk they can get a woman before it might be called rape.

kittehserf
7 years ago

To add: not wannabe rapist but willing to be a rapist. Willing to go ahead even if they don’t know they’ve got real consent. Wiling to take that chance, though they might not even think much about it.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Yeah wannabe rapist is kinda one of those things that one can’t spend long wanting to be now is it? Your wording is definitely better.

And yeah, I figured you meant as much, I just don’t really like saying that all grey area sex means someone’s willing to be a rapist, not if LEGALLY grey but consensual is included in that definition. Which, you know, it isn’t with these tools.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Yeah, these creepsters are definitely looking for just-squeaked-in legality and ways to brush off the idea of consent. That non-consent is the default is something they do not want to hear. I’m not sure that legally grey but consensual got into it; the creepsters do what they always do when age comes into it, of course – talk as if adult-underage was comparable to kids very close in age. The situations talked about in these threads were broad, but each and every one was rape, not consensual fooling around that might be legally dubious but was between equals.

I tend to think of wannabe rapists as wanting to but being afraid they’ll get caught, or haven’t got past fantasising about it yet.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I’m 36 so I’m too young to have experienced that whole “sexual revolution” thing, but I’ve been told by people who did that basically it wasn’t that liberating for women. As someone already pointed out in this long comment thread (I think), it was about women no longer being allowed to say “no” because if they did they were prudes and not sexually liberated. So I guess (yeah this is obviously fairly simplifying) in the seventies you had these options

1. Traditional unmarried woman – weren’t allowed to say “yes” (or possibly could “give in” after the man had been insistent enough) or you were a HORRIBLE SLUT.
2. Traditional married woman – weren’t allowed to say “no” to her husband.
3. Sexually liberated woman – obligated to sleep with any “revolutionary” guy whatsoever, or else she was a HORRIBLE PRUDE.

As far as I understand things, the whole “there’s no such thing as real consent from women” was mostly aimed at 3, since it was presented as the grand alternative to the criticized 1. And it was probably very much needed criticism, I guess? I mean, I mentioned Simone de Beauvoir’s fucked-up views on sex in another thread, but I guess that’s basically her not realizing that 3 is as fucked-up as 1. A bit later we had feminists who did realize the enormous problems with 3, only that sort of caused them to give up and go “all hetero-sex is fucked-up”.

Regarding sex-negativity there’s at least the blogger “radtransfem” who uses it about herself, and I also saw a Swedish feminist use it… And I think their main point is that sex-positivism easily slips into 3 above (not that sex-positivists explicitly embrace 3, but that they in praxis tend to veer into that direction), and they want to criticize that. Possibly they do have a valid point with regards to at least some writers calling themselves sex-positivist?

kittehserf
7 years ago

Great summary, Dvarg! And yes, it does seem that some sex-positive feminists do slip into that, from what people mentioned upthread. The only sex-pos blogger I ever read is Cliff Pervocracy, who’s very good and doesn’t do that at all, so I couldn’t name names for others.

lousycanuck
7 years ago
Reply to  kittehserf

I don’t think it’s particularly emotionally healthy for me to keep fighting this fight right now, but I have a part 2 post up.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2013/09/01/a-voice-for-men-willing-to-publish-libel-to-prove-points-about-fake-rape-claims-part-2-logic-and-language/

You know. In case you want to watch me mud-wrestle an MRA over my own personal life experience for ~7500 words. :/

If not… I don’t blame you.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I haven’t personally run into any feminists calling themselves sex-positivists and then veering into 3, but since I don’t read lots of bloggers or authors calling themselves sex-positivists, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. What I can say for certain is that there does exist, in some circles/subcultures, prude-shaming. Someone mentioned Savage. Jezebel has also veered into that territory sometimes. Like, they’ve written pieces about anal sex which are basically about “all men and women who’ve actually tried to be anally penetrated loves it so everyone ought to try it whether they feel like or not!”. There are people who talk about vanilla sex as being “boring” and, by extension, people who engage in it as being boring. I know a couple of feminists who also write a lot about sex who actually came out as heterosexual, since everyone assumed that of course women like that are bisexual, since only prudes are straight (in one case she even managed to tell herself that she was bi for a while before she had to admit to herself that nope, lesbian sex really doesn’t do anything for me). There’s also this thing that if you’re a slut, you may feel a bit bad about turning down sex with some dude you’re not attracted to, like you have this nagging feel at the back of your head that maybe you’re being discriminating in some way or not open-minded enough or something… We have polyevangelists who argue that the only reason that someone could ever be in a monogamous relationship is because they regard a romantic partner as property.

So, well, gotta say “yes” to all sex or else you’re a bad person is definitely a pressure that still exists and needs to be talked about.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Dvarg, my eyes are rolling so hard right now at those people. I’ve heard of all of those nauseating attitudes you describe but not encountered them directly – I mean, not read the blogs (except Dan. Fucking. Savage) where this shit is trotted out.

It sounds like they’re just playing out rape culture and adding even more horrible twists, so there is no way any woman can refuse any sexual act from anyone, ever. Like they’ve absorbed Gor without even realising it, and have the hide to pretend this is feminist. (Did I just do a No True Scotsman then? But damned if I’m gonna acknowledge someone pushing any of that shit as caring one iota about other women.)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“We have polyevangelists who argue that the only reason that someone could ever be in a monogamous relationship is because they regard a romantic partner as property.”

My eye twitch is at it again. “Poly, it’s not for everyone!” should be a shirt or something, maybe with a smaller print “but it is for me” also available. Maybe a coffee mug, the only poly person I know who doesn’t live off the stuff is my now monogamous ex-FWB (who I can not, in any way, see regarding his girlfriend as property, I’m fairly sure he doesn’t even regard his cats as property [and they’re both super sweet and would be okay with that!])

Speaking of cats! Lousycanuck scroll up // back a page, cuteness is almost always good for one’s mental health.

Randomly, do we have any puffer fish experts? I was playing with mine earlier and I think the little guy may be a green spotted, not a figure 8, this isn’t a problem per se, but I’d like to know if I need to rearrange tanks so I can put the plants elsewhere since GSPs are marine as adults (I think?) Dude has the whole tank currently, and it’s 30g, so it’s fine either way, but both other tanks have catfish and catfish and plants *rolls eyes* I like my plants as not fish food!

Probably not, seeing how I’m the resident fish geek, but no harm asking? (Besides the derail but randomness is my calling in life)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Kitteh — I No True Scottsman about TERfs (see the little f? That’s because no true feminist…)

kittehserf
7 years ago

Good point about TERfs, Argenti, good point!

That whole poly thing … fuuuck. They talk about monogamous partners seeing each other as property ::exchanges baffled look with L:: but insisting that everyone must go poly is utterly denying other people’s choice, freedom, bodily autonomy, you name it. They’re fucking talking rape and slavery. That’s what it would be for me.

pecunium
7 years ago

re the “sexual revolution” I came of sexual age in the tail end of it (herpes was the big scare, AIDS was only sort of on the radar [in a culture with a lot of LGBT people in it; I think I met my first openly trans person in 1980, or so. The first person I personally knew to being getting reassignment surgery was a friends husband in 1987]).

What I recall is that it was mixed; even in a moderately progressive, a bit more than moderately feminist grouping, is that women were allowed to be more free with what they wanted. I don’t think I initiated a sexual encounter for the first two, maybe three years, of my sex life. Some of those were fairly aggressive women, who had no problem saying no.

But then I look at the wider world, and the way Plato’s Retreat (and whomever’s Grotto, and the other open to the public sex clubs which existed here and there) where the policies were, “single women, and couples”.

The vibe that gives off is more than a touch creepy.

There was a lot of, “a liberated woman is down for anything”, but there was a lot more grey area too. It was sort of assumed (by the later ’70s/early ’80s, that women were having sex. It was sort of assumed that most women were having sex. Which meant some of the pressure was off (at the cost of some different pressures. The bar scene was PUA everywhere. “How to Pick-Up Girls was being advertised in mainstream magazines, as well as some skeevy ones; it’s a lot better now).

But once given, consent was pretty much assumed to be permanent. If you had six with a guy once, he was pretty much going to assume (and culture would back him up), that he could have sex anytime he wanted it. The first time was the important one. Until then the woman had “kept” something, and so had it to give. Once she had sex, she had, “given it up”, consent was no longer hers’ to control.

That’s what was being decried. It’s why the arguments about how society made all sex into rape; because consentual agency was a one way street.

pecunium
7 years ago

kittehs: That whole poly thing … fuuuck. They talk about monogamous partners seeing each other as property ::exchanges baffled look with L:: but insisting that everyone must go poly is utterly denying other people’s choice, freedom, bodily autonomy, you name it. They’re fucking talking rape and slavery. That’s what it would be for me.

I think you are confusing religious polygamy, with secular “polyamory” (which is an ugly word, but the one we seem to be stuck with).

And now I have to go to work.

talacaris
talacaris
7 years ago

So why are TERfs called that and not TPRfs Because doxxing and harassing (see bugbrennan) and working to limit trans* rights is a bit more than just “exclusive”.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

“Fidelbogen obviously has not met Tom Martin.

I kinda want to put the two of them together in a room. Just to see who would drown in verbiage first.”

THAT is your documentary, Martin, should you choose to accept it. Find fiddlebogen. Engage in conversation. Film. Sell. Gold.

And, what the heck… let’s throw Whoriarchy in there for good measure.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

Thanks for the insight, Pecunium.

I don’t think Kitten is guilty of mixing up polyamory with something else; I just think she meant that if everyone were required to have several sex partners, it would be like rape and slavery for her since she’s got zero interest in having sex with anyone but her husband. (Correct me if I’m wrong, Kitten.)

Personally, I feel about polyamory the same way I feel about having children. I totally understand that other people want it, because there are tons of sexually attractive people in the world/children are cute and funny. But nowadays, I feel like it would be too much work and I just don’t have the energy; Nowadays I think life is simpler mono and childless.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

My god.

THE UNIVERSE HAS AN ASSHOLE???

I’ll have to watch a few Nova astronomy specials before I could answer that question. Or I could write a letter to Neil deGrasse Tyson to see if he knows.

Like, they’ve written pieces about anal sex which are basically about “all men and women who’ve actually tried to be anally penetrated loves it so everyone ought to try it whether they feel like or not!”. There are people who talk about vanilla sex as being “boring” and, by extension, people who engage in it as being boring.

That’s so sad, because there really is a need for spaces where people can discuss things like kink or anal sex without feeling embarrassed or judged. If someone has questions about that kind of stuff and goes to the Internet, they’ll either end up at medical sites or porn sites. Medical sites are boring and clinical, and porn is well, let’s just say it’s not a realistic how to guide for sex.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

Folks, Elam has posted his 20/20.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Ooh, David, is it something you can host here so we don’t have to give them any traffic?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

@LBT

My god.

THE UNIVERSE HAS AN ASSHOLE???

Yep. It’s called “A Voice For Men”

@ Dvärghundspossen

I think their main point is that sex-positivism easily slips into 3 above (not that sex-positivists explicitly embrace 3, but that they in praxis tend to veer into that direction), and they want to criticize that. Possibly they do have a valid point with regards to at least some writers calling themselves sex-positivist?

There’s also the way sex-positive feminism has been embraced and evangelized (and too often, used to shame women into bed) by certain kinds of men. I’ve seen men who self-id as sex-positive go on at length about how important women’s sexual liberation is, and they give me the heebie-jeebies.

I’ve also seen people who try to have critical discussions of BDSM or object to people claiming pedophilia as a totally legit kink get immediately shouted down as kink-shaming, but that was mostly on Tumblr, which has a really problematic SJ culture.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: emilygoddess

I’ve also seen people who try to have critical discussions of BDSM or object to people claiming pedophilia as a totally legit kink get immediately shouted down as kink-shaming, but that was mostly on Tumblr, which has a really problematic SJ culture.

Ohhh god. Tumblr is just… fucking TUMBLR. It’s like a bunch of kids learned just enough about privilege theory to babble the jargon, without actually knowing shit about intersectionality, and then cranked it up to eleven. If I never have to see a ‘asexuals stealing our queer oppression’ fight ever fucking again…

As for the pedo stuff… it was about shota/loli, wasn’t it?

kittehserf
7 years ago

Pecunium – Dvarg has it right. I wasn’t even thinking of the situation that already exists with cults; I was thinking of precisely what she said, of what poly being demanded of everyone would be.

Dvarg – thanks! 🙂