Our old nemesis Fidelbogen — the Would-Be Counter-Feminist Philosopher King — has taken on a dire, if altogether hypothetical, threat to the men’s rights movement as we know it today: the danger that actual activism that benefits men in the real world will get in the way of the feminist bashing that he thinks is job #1 for all good MRAs.
As he argues in a recent post:
Doing good things for men – opening DV shelters, men’s centers, passing male-friendly laws, and so on – is all very excellent and fine, but it does not attack the root of the problem.
This is kind of a remarkable statement for him to make, given that the Men’s Rights movement that Fidelbogen has attached himself to — or at least its very vocal online contingent — has so far succeeded in opening precisely zero DV shelters and/or men’s centers and has successfully lobbied for zero “male-friendly” laws.
Indeed, it’s only in recent months that any MRAs active online have managed to raise even a miniscule percentage of the money it will take to open much less operate a single shelter for men.
But apparently Fidey is worried that even these paltry efforts from MRAs will get in the way of the noble task of yelling about feminists. As he puts it, in LARGE BOLD TYPE so you know he’s extra serious:
Fidey, I don’t think you need to worry for a minute that MRAs are going to actually accomplish anything in the real world. And you can quote me on that,
Starstorm I believe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what quid pro quo actually means. I mean, unless you knew you were talking about sexual favors, then I whole heartedly apologize.
I’m gonna treat this as an open thread for a sec and complain about/mock one of my MRA-ish* coworkers.
At work they sent out a baby announcement–one of my (male) coworkers is now a parent. It said “Congratulations to [coworker]! Baby was born on [date]. Both mother and baby are doing great.”
MRA-ish coworker’s response was, “How Dad doing? I presume Dad is doing well also…..is there no longer any consideration for Fathers.”
My response was, “My understanding is that there is special concern for the mother and baby at this time because they went through the physical process of labor. But I hope and trust that [coworker] is doing well also.”
I think I showed great restraint in not using words like “obviously”…
*He’s talked to me before about how he thinks people wish everyone “Happy Mother’s Day” and not “Happy Father’s Day”, and how people raise awareness for breast cancer but not prostate cancer. I asked him if he was a Men’s Rights Activist and he didn’t seem familiar with the term, so I don’t think he’s involved with the Manosphere.
I feel like there’s actually an interesting conversation to be had about the commercialization and creepy sexualization of breast cancer awareness… but probably not with that dude.
Even if you had said “obviously”, you would have still been showing restraint to such an asinine comment. Your coworker and typhonblue could get together and discuss how hard childbirth is for cis men. It’s so sad for them in the labor room dealing with their wives whining about “contractions” and “pain”, when they are the ones suffering from mediocre hospital cafeteria food and no wifi for their phones.
I think words like hysterical are strongly connotative, and who is saying them in what context will make/break the usage.
They are, in that regard problematic.
But arguing that. “I use them in this way” can’t remove that. Intent isn’t magic, and how the audience takes it matters more than what one means when one is hitting that wall.
I remember when my second sister was born. My mother wasn’t having a good time (she opted for a no-drug delivery), and my stepfather was close to losing it (she was obviously in a great deal of pain).
When all was said and done, none of us (he included) thought there was any reason to be all that concerned for him.
How hard labor is for fathers? Mine was drunk for one of our births, I think my brother’s, just because being drunk for 30+ hours of labor sounds like quite a feat.
And yes, I said 30+, she says 36, by my birth certificate it was 32, we’re assuming the gap is her including the afterbirth (fair enough). But sure, that was just so hard on my father! (Her mother did wear a path in the rug pacing though)
Re: hysterical — hilarious is very often a perfectly apt synonym. If anyone has ideas for mass hysteria though? Cuz I got nothing on that one. Mass panic perhaps?
(Pecunium — “it was an exodus, like in Exodus!”…my freshman dorm was hilarious some days. Including the day of “do you have anything I can feed a newt for the night? I intend to let it go in the morning” [betta bites to the rescue!])
My mother went drug free for the first 24~ hours too, other than the drug to induce my 2+ weeks late little self. (This was not an elective induction, this was “get your ass in here first thing in the morning, that baby needs to come out NOW”…I was stubborn before I was born ^.^ )
This is starting to irritate me. *I* have acknowledged that words have different meanings depending on the times and the social group. IRL, if someone at my office said, “this client won’t stop bitching and moaning,” that wouldn’t convey any information about the client’s gender.
I have repeatedly said that the community represented in the comments section has the right to set its own standards, and that I will try to conform to those standards, rather than insist that my own connotations “win.” But those community standards hold for this community, not the universe. Maybe you hear the word hysteria as gendered. That’s fine. Please don’t tell me it is *officially* still gendered because language doesn’t work that way. Bloody is a curse in the UK, but not in the US.
If I object to you “scolding” me, do you hear that as a slight on your masculinity?
Can someone help me find my eyeballs? I think they just rolled all the way under the couch, and I don’t want them to get covered in lint.
Youllneverguess, you’re going down a baaaaad road here.
Also, has ANYONE had an argument with pecunium and won on this blog? Seriously?
We’re scolding you by noting that how the audience (that is, us, the people here) take it is more important than what you meant, and me musing in alternatives?
Trust me here, when either pecunium or I start scolding, you’ll be sure of it.
*hands Cassandra a lint roller*
Eh? I don’t know? I may’ve but we never argue really, and as we’ve noted, that wouldn’t be pretty. Point here is I imagine on minor matters people have, things like hobbies and such.
Of course, we don’t get to decide what the connotations of a word are! Only you get to decide that!
Well, given how stupid this conversation already is, maybe Pecunium and I can argue about his hatred of mangoes and my love of them. Has to be more interesting than reading another “why are you all being so mean to me, hysterical is not gendered because I say so” comment.
Not this shit again.
“Bitching” as a synonym for “complaining” is obviously gendered. The word is only ever used to refer to what are considered to be negative characteristics of women. It is used to disparage bossy women, assertive women, angry women, women who don’t do everything men ask them to do, and, of course, women who complain. “Bitching” does not merely mean “complaining”; it means “complaining like a woman.” It is used to not only disparage certain types of people by referencing negative female characteristics (as defined by the patriarchy), but also to trivialize those complaints because of the assumed association with womanhood.
So yes. It is a misogynistic word. You can’t simply make words mean what you intend them to mean, sorry.
It’s not only impenetrable to most people, but her ideas aren’t really that interesting or new in the first place. And it just reminds me of the same old shit used to put down trans* people.
Oh, and one more thing on the word “bitch” as a pejorative term; it’s also used to disparage men because of its association with femaleness. So yeah, non-gendered insult my ass.
Youlneverguess: This is starting to irritate me.
Dude, this ain’t all about you.
LBT: Also, has ANYONE had an argument with pecunium and won on this blog? Seriously?
Depends on what you mean by argument. Has anyone convinced me I was in error. Yes. More often (I hope) than people recall, because I should like to think I was graceful. I have certainly made errors of memory/understanding/interpretaion and fact.
Have I been convinced I was taking a fundamentally immoral stance? Not here.
Have I been properly accused of being too harsh? Once or twice (usually because I misintreprted someone’s intent and ripped them a new one as if they were acting in bad faith). I like to think that is more rare than it probably is, because I try to take people who have shown some goodwill as being of goodwill (see Ruby).
But it’s hard to get me on a logical failure. I may be pig-headed, but I can usually defend my reasons for being so.
Cassndra: I can tell you why I dislike them. I can tell you what little I have done to prepare them for other people (it’s harder than things like avocado, which I can be near without a visceral revulsion, since what it tastes like to me is so far from anything I can imagine being edilble that pairing it to anything has to be formulaic).
How do you feel about cilantro?
Now that he’s being a wanker I finally feel I can ask this question:
Did anyone else cast a major side-eye at the handle “YoullNeverGuess”? Instantly makes me think it’s a sockpuppet who thinks he’s being really clever this time.
I love cilantro. Actually the only herb that I dislike in its raw form is dill.
@ katz
Yep, I pretty much assumed the name indicated a return visitor, and was curious how long it would take before grudge-wank ensued.