For a certain subset of horrible men, there are few things more infuriating than the fact that women they find undesirable can turn down men for sex. For this upsets their primitive sense of justice: such women should be so grateful for any male attention, these men think, that turning down even the most boorish of men shouldn’t even be an option for them.
Consider the reactions of some of the regulars on date-rapey pickup guru Roosh V’s forum to the story of Josh and Mary on the dating site Plenty of Fish. One fine December evening, you see, Josh decided to try a little “direct game” on Mary.
That’s what the fellas on Roosh’s forum call it, anyway. The rest of us would call it sexual harassment.
Josh started off by asking Mary if she “wanted to be fuck buddies.” She said “nope,” and the conversation went downhill from there, with Josh sending a series of increasingly explicit comments to Mary, despite getting nothing but negative replies from her.
After eight messages from Josh, with the last one suggesting he would pay her $50 to “come over right now and swallow my load,” Mary turned the tables, noting that she’d been able to deduce his real identity from his PoF profile, and asking him if he wanted her to send screenshots of the chat to his mother and grandmother. He begged her not to.
As you may have already figured out, from the fact that we’re talking about this story in public, Mary did indeed pass along the screenshots, and posted them online.
Poetic justice? Not to the fellas on Roosh’s forum. Because, you see, Mary is … a fat chick.
While dismissing Josh as a “chode” with “atrocious game,” Scorpion saved most of his anger for the harassed woman:
Look how much she relishes not only shooting him down, but damaging his reputation with his own family. She’s positively intoxicated with her power. Simply spitting bad direct game is enough to unleash her vindictive fury.
“Bad direct game.” I’m pretty sure even Clarence Thomas would consider what Josh did sexual harassment.
At any point, she could have pressed a single button and blocked the man from communicating with her, but she didn’t. She didn’t because she enjoys the feeling of power she gets from receiving attention from guys like this and then brutally shooting them down. It makes her feel much hotter and more desirable than she actually is in real life. She’s not there to meet men; she’s there to virtually castrate them for her own amusement.
I’m guessing here, but I’m pretty sure that nowhere in Mary’s profile did she encourage the men of PoF to send her explicit sexual propositions out of the blue. And I’m pretty sure she didn’t hold a gun to Josh’s head and force him to send a half-dozen sexually explicit harassing messages to a woman he didn’t know.
Athlone McGinnis also relies heavily on euphemism when describing Josh’s appalling behavior:
I don’t think its primarily the revenge she’s after, its the validation. She is enjoying the power she has over this guy and wielding it brutally because it shows she can maintain standards despite her weight and the doubtless numerous confidence issues that stem from it. In blowing up this guy for being too direct in his evaluation of her sexuality, she affirms the value of her own sexuality.
Oh, so he was just being “direct in his evaluation of her sexuality.”
In short: “I am wanted, but I have standards and can choose. I have so much agency despite my weight that I can go as far as to punish those who approach me in a way I do not like rather than simply blocking them. I’m teaching them a lesson, because I’m valuable enough to provide such lessons.
So apparently in Mr. McGinnis’ world women who are fat aren’t supposed to have agency? They’re not supposed to be able to choose? They’re supposed to drop their panties to any guy who offers to be their fuck buddy or tells them to “suck my dick?”
Also, I’m a victim bravely standing up against online bullying/harassment-look at me!”
Yeah, actually, she is. Get used to it, guys, because you’re going to see a lot more of this in the future.
This isn’t just a laughing matter for her. She needs to be able to do this in order to feel worthwhile. She has to be able to show that even she is able to maintain standards and doesn’t have to settle for just any old guy asking for any old sexual favor simply because she resembles a beached manatee.
And it’s not a laughing matter for you either, is it? You’re actually angry that a woman said no to a sexual harasser — because you don’t find her attractive. And because Josh — from his picture, a conventionally attractive, non-fat fellow — did.
Mr. McGinnis, may a fat person sit on your dreams, and crush them.
Srsly. Eg:
Just pick a tense! It’s not that hard!
On the whole “he’s mean to you because he likes you” thing, again I have to thank my parents for not perpetuating that shit. Some other family members tried it, but my mother wasn’t having it, and my dad backed her up. Which meant that when I encountered it from teachers I was all “what nonsense is this?”.
Even if we pretend for a moment that people are right and boys really do hit girls and pull their hair out of some sort of confused childish desire for attention, we’d be much better off teaching them that if they want someone to like them they have to be nice to that person rather than teaching the victims to shut up and take it.
@cloudia: approval granted! they look soft and highly strokeable. 🙂
Just finished reading ‘Patricia’s Smartphone’…silly Patricia and Madison, they really need to wise up or Stig Greybeard won’t be coming down their chimneys this year (he only visits good, red-pill little boys and girls).
Coincidentally, I watched *He;s just not that into you* this afternoon. The start of that is asking exactly that – why do we mess with little girls’ minds by telling them that boys are horrible to them because they like them. Thus setting them up for confusion and abuse.
I was mean to girls because I thought they were gross and stupid. Seriously, kids aren’t that complicated. Later, I was best friends with a girl because she was cool and we’d go catch salamanders together. Adults always referred to her as my ‘little girlfriend’ and I got all mad because we were just friends.
Why would we expect pre-pubecent kids to be acting out romance?
*If we’re talking about pre-pubecent kids, which I just realized we might not be.
I just read the “Patricia’s Smartphone” story. And I have to say, at the end, if I had to pick between a man who would serve me like a queen and the companionship of my friends, I’d rather not be on the pedestal, thanks.
Patricia’s Smartphone is funny, but it doesn’t quite reach Stig Greybeard levels.
Also, does anyone actually know anyone who acts like that? I know some people who take what I think are an excessive number of photos, but hardly anything on those levels.
And I know Roosh was trying to make a ham-fisted point, but my god Patricia’s date sounds tedious, and I say this as someone who does enjoy taking hippie drugs and climbing mountains. Who claims spiritual enlightenment because they got high in Peru, and prattles on at length about it even when their date isn’t interested? A pretentious fool, that’s who.
I should clarify that I don’t take hippie drugs immediately before climbing mountains, since my sentence structure kind of implies that. That’s just dangerous.
cloudiah – d’awwww kitties!
OT news: Mads got hugely smoochy and affectionate yesterday. She doesn’t do laps, but likes getting ruffled and cuddled when she’s on the back of the chair, or on the little table that sits next to it. Yesterday she was on the table and not just enjoying being cuddled, but wrapping herself round my head (I had my face buried in her side) and doing mighty purrs.
<3 <3 <3
Also OT: new boots! The shoeshop near my hairdresser's has its last winter sale on, and I asked if they still had any boots in a 40-41. They did – these. Mine are forest green, and were $120, which is cheap for good boots.
They look very good with black leggings, especially with a ring of cat furs at calf height.
Anyone got their ear to the group re: the problem with women in teh atheist moovement?
It appears the forum known as rationalskepticism.org has been graced with the presence of self-proclaimed sysadmin to AVfM, victor.zen, and he’s splattering is textual misogynist diarrhoea all over one of their threads. Golly, what a gift.
Ooooh, marinerachel, gotta link? I love it when the AVfMers show their asses in public.
You betcha, ma soeur: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/sex-postitve-feminism-wtf-is-that-t41029-200.html
What a fucking ray of sunshine.
Note the forum hosted similarly minded individuals prior to His Majesty’s arrival (their preexisting presence in the thread will tip you off to the unfortunately lax attitude towards misogyny on the forum) so there’s actually big love for the turd. Even better are the ferocious individuals deflecting his and their stupid though. Go get ’em, friends.
Now that’d be an interesting combination. MRAs aren’t known for their ability to write or think clearly. What’s the rationalskepticism mob like? Hyperskeptics who scream “There’s no evidence!” when presented with first-person accounts of rape? Or actual decent human beings? If the former, even a bog-brained MRA would probably fit in to some degree. If the latter … well, it’d be like a Pharyngula troll-shredding.
Re: A Stigbeard Carol, the herbivorous dinosaurs might be a reference to “Herb”, Heartiste’s derogatory nickname for any guy who gets married, has kids, is devoted to his partner/family, and doesn’t spend all his time in bars insulting college-aged party girls in an attempt to get laid. Becoming a Herb is (gasp) a fate worse than death. Imagine the horror of adorable little tykes lovingly calling “Daddy!” and running to hug you when you walk through the door every day. Visualize the hellish ordeal of growing old with the person who is most beautiful to you in all the world, the one who knows you better than anyone else, who will stick by you no matter what. What kind of wussy beta loser would sign up for a lifetime of that?
Ironically, Daniel’s terrifying future of masturbating alone to tentacle porn seems a lot more likely if he keeps following Roosh’s example.
Would the Herb thing also be a reference to the “herbivores” in Japan? I know MRAs have got that phenomenon totally wrong elsewhere; do the PUAs do the same?
Roosh really is such a loser. He’s either terrified of or straight-out antagonistic to (or both) anything that smacks of affection, trust, care … the man’s an oxygen thief.
I like herbivorous dinosaurs. That actually sounds like my kind of date. Some of the most fun I’ve had on dates has been when we’ve gone to museum exhibits and libraries. But then, I’m really attracted to people with broad interests and preferably a handful of (intense) passions and particularly if those same interests are in some way comparable to my own, thus discussion, learning from one another, etc. But that isn’t the only thing I look for. You can have a beautiful mind but an ugly personality. Being proud of yourself is one thing, but being self-obsessed is another and I hate people that try to undermine the intelligence or potential of others to make themselves look like a “higher” kind of being.
Which is why the guy who kept talking about his mountaineering and “enlightenment” in Douche’s story puts me off. Frankly, I would like to talk to a person about those experiences if they have had them. I’m a traveller and I’m into the idea of experiencing other cultures so you can open your mind. But the fact that they don’t realise the woman is completely disinterested and don’t attempt at all to find some common ground upon which they can start a discussion, rather than a monologue… it seems more than a little bit “oh, I’m so great. Listen to all the great things I’ve done. You think I’m great, right? Tell me more about how you think I am great and wordly and deep and stuff.” – I mean, if a person has never once done anything like that and/or (shock! Horror!) isn’t particularly inclined to, then of course that topic isn’t going to get either party anywhere in conversation. Why not talk about something a little closer to home that she might relate to? Fuck.
Also, Turkey. I hope you enjoy it. I’m headed back there soon myself.
RE: AK
Also, does anyone actually know anyone who acts like that? I know some people who take what I think are an excessive number of photos, but hardly anything on those levels.
Enh, I’ve run into folks who’re REALLY into taking photos… but I’m not on FB, Instagram, or any of those social media, so I don’t really encounter it myself. I figure it’s akin to the folks who travel somewhere… and then are so busy documenting their experience that they aren’t actually mentally present.
Who claims spiritual enlightenment because they got high in Peru, and prattles on at length about it even when their date isn’t interested? A pretentious fool, that’s who.
Nobody I’d want to hang out with, for sure. And I’m a travel nut. But anyone who pontificates about their enlightenment ISN’T enlightened, in my opinion.
When I have a camera I try to take about a zillion pics, because then I’ll get ten or twelve good ones.
I took a photography class in college, y’see.
There is NO story more interesting than the story about the time I was having oral surgery and so I was totally high on laughing gas.
Actually, it’s boring. But it was really exciting for me! So let me tell you about it!
Hey, all!
I just finished reading (for class) the most MRA-ish book I’ve ever read that was written by a professed feminist. *shudder*
Myth of Male Power?
Hey, Sir Bodsworth!
What was the book?
No, “The First Stone” by Helen Garner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Stone
It’s about an actual sexual harassment/assault case in Melbourne in the 1990s. It is dire. It’s every dismissing and diminishing trope you can think of all thrown together, interspersed with interjections from the author about what an awesome feminist she is.
Oh, THAT fucking thing. Yeah, haven’t read more than excerpts but I remember the incident and the reactions at the time. Lousy piece of harassment apology, iirc.
Actually I don’t think Helen Garner’s written anything that didn’t skeeve me out.Monkey Grip was set for the HSC year I escaped after two days. One of many reasons I was glad to get out of high school and into the introductory art year at RMIT was that I was able to dump that piece of garbage two chapters in.
Aw man, I just assumed you were reading Paglia or something. How revolting, ugh.