I’m back from a brief vacation in Migraineland, and thinking about the ways in which Men’s Rights Activists love to appropriate the language of feminism and other progressive movements, usually in ways that are face-palmingly ass-backwards.
Take this recent discussion on the Men’s Rights subreddit of the dire threat of “fake gamer girls” invading the “male space” of gaming. The generically named guywithaccount sets up the discussion with this post:
![I want to talk about "fake geek girls" (self.MensRights) submitted 9 days ago by guywithaccount For those of you who don't know about this, there's a bit of a controversy in what I'll call the geek community. Apparently, when women attend geek conventions (that is, those celebrating e.g. video games, comic books, sci-fi and fantasy), some men accuse them of being "fake geeks" or demanding that they prove their "geek cred" by correctly answering trivia questions made up on the spot. Here's one article (of many) that talks about it: [1] http://bookviewcafe.com/blog/2013/08/08/the-fake-geek-girl-nonsense/ My concern for this issue is that, like anything else that involves gender, feminists and feminist sympathizers are attempting to dominate the discussion and frame the whole thing from a feminist and gynocentric perspective. The prevailing analysis might be summed up as "geek culture is deeply misogynistic, and the people complaining about fake geeks are just sad little losers who hate women." IMO, the geek subculture has provided a somewhat-safe space for many men who have been snubbed by the rest of society, where they are not expected to prove their value to each other by carving notches in a bedpost or exemplifying traditional masculine traits. The increase in mainstream appeal and female participation over the past decade or so threatens the safety and exclusivity of this space, and the backlash from male geeks is a somewhat-predictable response to the invasion of their space. Of course, there are few spaces just for men, and when someone tries to create or preserve one, they're accused of misogyny. I suspect that some of you don't give a crap about any of this and see the whole thing as petty, but realize that it's not happening in a vacuum. I believe it's merely a symptom of the fact that men have almost no voice in gender discussions and their needs are routinely denied or ignored.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/fakegeek.png?resize=573%2C541&ssl=1)
Now, there is a teensy bit of gold in this pile of bullshit: the notion of a “safe space,” where oppressed people can come forward and discuss their issues without fear of being talked over or shut down by those outside their group — who have more power in the world and who may not have their best interests at heart (or who may just be Blabby McBlabbypants types).
But there are a couple of giant problems with this notion when it comes to gamer dudes declaring gaming a “safe space” for men. The first is that, despite lingering resentments over being “snubbed” in high school or wherever — evident in the OP and in comments throughout the discussion — these guys are not actually an oppressed people by any measure that really matters.
Indeed, many of them — as tech dudes in a male-dominated tech world — are in fact in fairly privileged positions. For them to claim they need a “safe space” to protect themselves from the evils of “fake gamer girls” is a bit like Klan members claiming they need a “safe space” to protect themselves from blacks, Jews and Catholics. (Which is more or less what Klan members have argued over the years, albeit in less PC language.) No, I’m not claiming that all MRAs are the equivalent of hood-wearing Klan members. Only some of them are.
The second problem with the “game world as safe space for men” aregument is that YOU CAN’T JUST DECLARE BIG CHUNKS OF THE WORLD TO BELONG TO MEN. Yes, men dominate the gaming world in sheer numbers, both as game-makers and game-players. (While women make up nearly half of all game players — 47% — men tend to dominate the “serious” games that many geek dudes claim are the only ones that really count.) But gaming doesn’t “belong” to men any more than, say, novel-reading “belongs” to women — even though surveys suggest that women make up a staggering 80% of the fiction market in much of the English-speaking world.
Yep, that’s right: Women dominate “noveling” much more dramatically than men dominate gaming. Yet you don’t find women denouncing “fake noveler boys” or declaring that the male brain isn’t wired to understand the subtleties of written fiction.
No, in fact men are actively welcomed into book clubs. And my best friend, a woman, has spent much of the 18 or so years or our friendship trying to get me to read this novel or that novel, though over the years she’s only succeeded in getting me to read maybe one or two of her suggestions, which were pretty good, I have to admit. (I do plan to read some of the others, really.)
If you’re a socially awkward guy and want a safe space to discuss that, find a therapist, find a support group. Don’t pick on women gamers and pretend this is somehow your right because you’re oppressed as a socially awkward guy.
Anyway, here are some other dumb comments from the Reddit thread. YetAnotherCommenter warns feminists that they may lose some powerful allies if they continue acting so feministy.
Speaking of nerds who can’t get laid — which we weren’t but which these guys keep bringing up (and identifying themselves as) again and again — guia7ri seems to harbor some lingering resentments from high school, and who better to take that out on than attractive geeky women?
Hey MRAs, if you wonder why feminists sometimes describe MRAs as bitter men who hate women because they can’t get laid, it’s because MRAs like gui7ri so often EXPLICITLY DECLARE THEMSELVES BITTER MEN WHO HATE WOMEN BECAUSE THEY CAN’T GET LAID.
Meanwhile Byuku blames it all on evil feminists pretending to be geeks in order to make trouble. Because that’s what feminists do.
That’s how they get you!
EDIT: Added a sentence to temper and clarify my assertion that men “dominate” gaming.
There are more guy nerds than girl nerds because in elementary school, boys are far more likely to be the victims of aggressive bullying than girls. Another reason is that the rate of Asperger’s, which involves social deficiencies in men is 4-10x higher than in women (newsflash, women and men aren’t the same gender).
I have no problem with girls being involved in nerd culture. What I have a problem with is girls calling themselves “nerds” but then saying that I am “too nerdy” for me, yet demanding equal representation. There are some exceptions though. I also know other guys that call themselves “nerds” but bully me for being “too nerdy”. For me, the fundamental definition of a nerd is someone who lives outside the given boundaries of our 9-5 reality. This was the original definition of a nerd, although it has greatly expanded in the past decade.
If they are not willing to live up to this demanding state of mind, then they don’t get equal representation. Plain and simple.
I find it deeply offensive that you compare nerd safe spaces to safe spaces for Klan members. These privileged careers are only for nerds with good social skills, not real nerds like me.
Hey, I picked up my copy of Shaenon’s anthology The Big Feminist But, and everyone should buy it.
(Shaenon did not pay me for this endorsement.)
Why aren’t you approving my post? Jealous of my logic?
Really? I don’t approve your comment within 12 minutes and you assume I’ve been defeated by your powerful man logic?
I was doing other things.
Entitled much?
Right, atdevel, David is jealous of your logic. No, he’s in awe of your towering STEM LOGIC.
Or you know, maybe, you could look at the comments policy up above and see that all new commenters start out on moderation until he can get around to approving you.
Now let me just sit here and gaze adoringly on your LOGICAL LOGIC.
When I first started reading this, I thought it would be about PUA gaming; perhaps girls using the techniques of “game” to “pick up” men. Guess I’ve been lurking on this site too long.
Ninja’d by our dark lord and master hisself. 😀
Well, that self-definition seems to fit this latest whiner.
@Uriah the Dancing Kitty, hi! Have a Welcome Package!
Ha ha, atdevel made a post about it over on r/mr.
You do realize you can’t really brigade in a place where there aren’t up/down votes, right?
And that bit of LOGIC you pooped in this thread? It doesn’t even make any sense.
Laughage. So much laughage.
atdevel, the LOGIC DUDE who can’t even construct a sentence.
http://s29.photobucket.com/user/Locke2007/media/Funny%20Pictures/spock-illogical.png.html
“these guys are not actually an oppressed people by any measure that really matters.”
I’m pretty sure it’s only the “bad guys” who dismiss out of hand the pain of people they don’t even know, becase they can’t be bothered to empathize.
“There are more guy nerds than girl nerds because in elementary school, boys are far more likely to be the victims of aggressive bullying than girls.”
According to whom or what?
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Alex, you came straight from r/mr, didn’t you?
Alex Reynard, I think I had a conversation with you on youtube. You defended JtO’s awful video about not giving a shit about rape victims (the real ones, he specified). And now you talk about empathy as if you were capable of having it.
“Wimminz won’t let me dictate what they can and can’t like and won’t let me treat them as sexthings as the price for existing! Oh the pain, the pain!”
(I find it ironic, it’s all)
Like your avatar, arukaberu. Fierce fang cat!
Thanks kittehserf, I like yours too!
Thank you! 🙂
(You can call me kittehs.)
This is hilarious. Alex comments here, and then runs back to r/mr to tell them what he said.
They are like 8-year-olds. Seriously.
😀
Logic fail in aisle one.
To start with, troll, we are discussing geeks…not nerds. There is a difference.
Second, being the victim of bullying does not a geek make. Geeks are defined by their interests and enthusiam in pursuing interests in things considered childish by mainstream society. While geeks are often bullied, its not the number of punches a person takes that defines a geek.
A safe space is not an entire entertainment industry.
Kim mentioned geekery in craft circles upthread, iirc – can you imagine any of these troglodytes allowing that CRAFT could be geeky?
RE: atdevel
There are more guy nerds than girl nerds because in elementary school, boys are far more likely to be the victims of aggressive bullying than girls.
First of all, all who are bullied are not nerds, and all who are nerds aren’t bullied. Also, aspies are necessarily nerds either. You’re comparing apples, oranges, and kumquats.
Also, nerdom isn’t a fucking political party. You don’t get to decide who gets represented and who doesn’t. Please, get off your cross, we need the wood.
I find it deeply offensive that you compare nerd safe spaces to safe spaces for Klan members. These privileged careers are only for nerds with good social skills, not real nerds like me.
…please tell me you didn’t just say being a Klansmen requires social skills.
I’m pretty sure it’s only the “bad guys” who dismiss out of hand the pain of people they don’t even know, becase they can’t be bothered to empathize.</em
Dude, nerds aren't fucking oppressed. I was a nerd, okay, you aren't goddamn oppressed. GET OFF YOUR FUCKING CROSS.