I’m back from a brief vacation in Migraineland, and thinking about the ways in which Men’s Rights Activists love to appropriate the language of feminism and other progressive movements, usually in ways that are face-palmingly ass-backwards.
Take this recent discussion on the Men’s Rights subreddit of the dire threat of “fake gamer girls” invading the “male space” of gaming. The generically named guywithaccount sets up the discussion with this post:
![I want to talk about "fake geek girls" (self.MensRights) submitted 9 days ago by guywithaccount For those of you who don't know about this, there's a bit of a controversy in what I'll call the geek community. Apparently, when women attend geek conventions (that is, those celebrating e.g. video games, comic books, sci-fi and fantasy), some men accuse them of being "fake geeks" or demanding that they prove their "geek cred" by correctly answering trivia questions made up on the spot. Here's one article (of many) that talks about it: [1] http://bookviewcafe.com/blog/2013/08/08/the-fake-geek-girl-nonsense/ My concern for this issue is that, like anything else that involves gender, feminists and feminist sympathizers are attempting to dominate the discussion and frame the whole thing from a feminist and gynocentric perspective. The prevailing analysis might be summed up as "geek culture is deeply misogynistic, and the people complaining about fake geeks are just sad little losers who hate women." IMO, the geek subculture has provided a somewhat-safe space for many men who have been snubbed by the rest of society, where they are not expected to prove their value to each other by carving notches in a bedpost or exemplifying traditional masculine traits. The increase in mainstream appeal and female participation over the past decade or so threatens the safety and exclusivity of this space, and the backlash from male geeks is a somewhat-predictable response to the invasion of their space. Of course, there are few spaces just for men, and when someone tries to create or preserve one, they're accused of misogyny. I suspect that some of you don't give a crap about any of this and see the whole thing as petty, but realize that it's not happening in a vacuum. I believe it's merely a symptom of the fact that men have almost no voice in gender discussions and their needs are routinely denied or ignored.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/fakegeek.png?resize=573%2C541&ssl=1)
Now, there is a teensy bit of gold in this pile of bullshit: the notion of a “safe space,” where oppressed people can come forward and discuss their issues without fear of being talked over or shut down by those outside their group — who have more power in the world and who may not have their best interests at heart (or who may just be Blabby McBlabbypants types).
But there are a couple of giant problems with this notion when it comes to gamer dudes declaring gaming a “safe space” for men. The first is that, despite lingering resentments over being “snubbed” in high school or wherever — evident in the OP and in comments throughout the discussion — these guys are not actually an oppressed people by any measure that really matters.
Indeed, many of them — as tech dudes in a male-dominated tech world — are in fact in fairly privileged positions. For them to claim they need a “safe space” to protect themselves from the evils of “fake gamer girls” is a bit like Klan members claiming they need a “safe space” to protect themselves from blacks, Jews and Catholics. (Which is more or less what Klan members have argued over the years, albeit in less PC language.) No, I’m not claiming that all MRAs are the equivalent of hood-wearing Klan members. Only some of them are.
The second problem with the “game world as safe space for men” aregument is that YOU CAN’T JUST DECLARE BIG CHUNKS OF THE WORLD TO BELONG TO MEN. Yes, men dominate the gaming world in sheer numbers, both as game-makers and game-players. (While women make up nearly half of all game players — 47% — men tend to dominate the “serious” games that many geek dudes claim are the only ones that really count.) But gaming doesn’t “belong” to men any more than, say, novel-reading “belongs” to women — even though surveys suggest that women make up a staggering 80% of the fiction market in much of the English-speaking world.
Yep, that’s right: Women dominate “noveling” much more dramatically than men dominate gaming. Yet you don’t find women denouncing “fake noveler boys” or declaring that the male brain isn’t wired to understand the subtleties of written fiction.
No, in fact men are actively welcomed into book clubs. And my best friend, a woman, has spent much of the 18 or so years or our friendship trying to get me to read this novel or that novel, though over the years she’s only succeeded in getting me to read maybe one or two of her suggestions, which were pretty good, I have to admit. (I do plan to read some of the others, really.)
If you’re a socially awkward guy and want a safe space to discuss that, find a therapist, find a support group. Don’t pick on women gamers and pretend this is somehow your right because you’re oppressed as a socially awkward guy.
Anyway, here are some other dumb comments from the Reddit thread. YetAnotherCommenter warns feminists that they may lose some powerful allies if they continue acting so feministy.
Speaking of nerds who can’t get laid — which we weren’t but which these guys keep bringing up (and identifying themselves as) again and again — guia7ri seems to harbor some lingering resentments from high school, and who better to take that out on than attractive geeky women?
Hey MRAs, if you wonder why feminists sometimes describe MRAs as bitter men who hate women because they can’t get laid, it’s because MRAs like gui7ri so often EXPLICITLY DECLARE THEMSELVES BITTER MEN WHO HATE WOMEN BECAUSE THEY CAN’T GET LAID.
Meanwhile Byuku blames it all on evil feminists pretending to be geeks in order to make trouble. Because that’s what feminists do.
That’s how they get you!
EDIT: Added a sentence to temper and clarify my assertion that men “dominate” gaming.
How many non-geeks would know or care about geek conventions anyway? I’m sure there are such things here, albeit not on the scale of the US (frex) but the idea of going to the bother of finding ’em and paying to get in for the dubious pleasure of giving poor ickle geekboys a hard time is just … surreal. Not to mention ironic, given it’s women at conventions who’re likely to be on the receiving end of harassment.
Pecunium — damn, taking this back to email though as epically off topic.
When I run across people who like stuff that I’m really into in places where I wasn’t expecting it then I’m always happy, not pissed off that they’re “stealing” my identity. If stuff that you like gets more popular that eventually gives you more access to the stuff, because that’s how the business works. Why is this a bad thing?
The whole idea of building your identity around liking a particular literary/musical/film genre and then feeling like that identity is being threatened when more people start liking the same stuff is just really childish.
This thread
Cassandra – especially since a genre wasn’t [generic] yours to begin with. Did these geeks invent the game, write the book, make the film, write the music? No, they did not. They don’t own it.
::smh:: Not exactly the same, but when I found out our commenter Theda Bara knew heaps about Louis and had been reading about him forever, I was over the flippin’ moon!
@ Shiraz
My generation and Star Wars in particular is just…how can you possibly claim that as some sort of unusual identity marker? I’m just about the most non-geek-looking person you could find and always have been, and I had Star Wars bed sheets and curtains, an inflatable light saber, a toy Millenium Falcon that I built with my dad, and bubble bath that you unscrewed Leia and Vader’s heads to use as a kid. That franchise was both a huge commercial success and a big part of childhood for a whole generation of people, so when I see people trying to use liking it as proof of their special snowflake-ness I just end up going sorry, buddy, but I remember how packed the theaters were for Empire Strikes Back.
WordPress has eaten Viscaria! :O
Please tell me you put the wrong heads back on sometimes. 😉
Yeah, I saw Star Wars when it came out (I was 14) and it was packed for the first film. Rare, special geekery? Nope.
Random story time!
“Outta my way, nerd!”
Baz nearly chuckled at the flustered security guard that tried to prevent him from entering the building. He didn’t see, but Baz’d bet money the guy had about three or four pocket protectors. Too bad his stomach didn’t have a pocket. The poor guy was pretty dedicated to his job though, managing to wheeze out the word “ticket” while he was still on the ground.
Ah well, time to move on to the next chump. And this place had a lot of chumps.
Comic Con, practically nerd-central. Baz felt a rush he hadn’t felt in… oh, about six years. The world was a different place outside of highschool; the real world had different kinds of bullies that Baz couldn’t compete with. They socked you in the wallet, where it really hurt. Teachers at least couldn’t touch you once you left school grounds, but the whole world was your boss’s playground, and the boss plays dirty. It felt good to be the big fish in the pond once again.
Baz finally entered the main room in the con. God dang this place was huge. And crowded. A dude tried to walk past Baz and ended up bumping against him. Baz shoved him to the ground, where he lay dazed for a second.
“Hey man,” the dude shouted above the drone of voices, “what’s your problem?”
“You.” Baz sneered and flexed his arms menacingly. The guys face visibly paled even beneath the makeup as he scrabbled to his feet and practically bolted into the crowd.
He still had his touch.
Another dude in some sort of black-and-white armor tried to walk past, but then turned towards Baz and stopped, taking off his helment.
“What are you, some anime character?”
Baz frowned. What the fuck was an anime? It suddenly dawned on him that a big muscley dude in a t-shirt with skulls might be a tad out of place in this sea of weaklings. Maybe he should get a disguise later…
“Umm… yeah, sure.”
The dude in the armor, frowned, as if thinking…
“Which one?”
Baz felt a weird mix of panic and anger. On the one hand, he could tear this guy a new one. On the other hand, pushing the other guy over was already tempting fate. Better just play this one cool…
“Oh, you know, that one… from… err… bathroom?”
The guy motioned over his shoulder with his gun. “That way.”
“Thanks,” Baz mumbled as he started wading through the crowd.
Nailed it.
Good thing he’d have plenty of practice being a pussy at work. Still, as he continued through the crowd, his spirits lifted. Sure, this was a bit more crowded than he was used to, and he still needed to build up his reputation, but there was no question he was top dog around here. He vented a little by lifting some t-shirts that looked about his size from the stands, then smiled as he heard some surprised shouts lifting above the din before fading away.
This was the moment he had been training for his whole life; a huge pack of fresh meat ripe to be messed with and beaten down. As long as everyone thought he was a nerd, kept the bullying subtle, he probably wouldn’t even be caught.
For the first time in years, Baz smiled.
He was home.
This has been your random story time.
Yup, totally meant to hit “Post Comment” there.
Anyway. This thread is like 4 pages longer than it was when I was almost caught up before funerals and hospital visits and things O_O how even you guys. I can’t read it all now but I will say that this new troll you all dragged up is adorable. I particularly like how his twin obsessions are accusing others of intellectual dishonesty and treating his opinions as fact. I am, however, confused on two points: Firstly, when an unmarried woman worked in The Olden Days, whose income was she supplementing? Or did unmarried women not work? Or did unmarried women not exist? Secondly, when I ask my boyfriend if he’d like to do sexy things with me and he declines am I failing as a gatekeeper or is he failing as a gate… stormer? Or does that never happen? Or do we not exist?
And some of the most popular films of all time have been in the sci-fi genre. There’s a huge chunk of the public that loves sci-fi on a casual level, especially when filmed. I’d say that the disparity between that and the percentage of people who read it has more to do with how few people read voraciously in general than with anything else. But really -Alien, Terminator, BladeRunner – huge pop culture phenomenons loved by millions of people all over the world.
Cassandra: Exactly. Jesus. Star Trek: The Next Generation — a “weird identity marker”? No way.
XD. Also how were there like 8 comments between my flub and my actual comment? Be ye Manboobzers or be ye machines??
OT, but I just found out that Chelsea Manning is going to be denied hormone therapy and GRS while in prison. I’m pissed off beyond belief.
@Ally S:
At least the ACLU is supporting her.
Or, right now, Game of Thrones. If anyone tries to tell me that’s not a fantasy series I will pee myself laughing, and it’s huge. Angry defensive nerdboys do not and cannot own sci fi and fantasy, no matter how hard they try.
Yes! **Fistbump** Cassandra.
John Scalzi nailed it:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/26/who-gets-to-be-a-geek-anyone-who-wants-to-be/
And most women with geeky interests do do that “you love this thing that I love? maybe we can be friends!” thing. But apparently the angry defensive geekboys were expecting “you love this thing that I love? please allow me to give you a blowjob while you lecture me about how I’m not doing fandom right!”, and they will never forgive women who’re into geeky things for failing to live up to that totally ridiculous expectation.
Yes. Love to all on this thread who understand. I must go to sleep, however. Night all.
Neither. We have more than mere hands for typing.
Sorry guys, I finally collapsed at the keyboard and got dragged off to bed. BUT I HAVE RETURNED! And I’ve decided to ignore Asher, because he is oddly less entertaining when I’m not high off my ass on sleep-dep.
RE: Deoridhe
LBT – you got disability? Yaaaaaaaay yayayayayayayayayyay. 8D
Yes! I did! WOOOOO!
Welp, I know what MY gender identity is now!
RE: CassandraSays
While it’s technically possible that somewhere in the world there’s a person less interesting than Asher, I’m going to need to see some objective evidence.
Brandon. (Citation: Brandon, Journal of Brandon, Publisher of Brandon, 2012)
RE: concept vs. execution
This, I’m pretty sure, is exactly what people pay me for on writeathons.
RE: atdevel
Maybe the people harassing female geeks are just normal people with nerdy interests
Aha. AHAHAHAHAHHA. You naive fool.
Seriously, allow me to reiterate how ANNOYING I find this romanticized bullshit that nerds are always the sad, bullied underdogs who were just so goshdarned nice. In high school and undergrad college, the nerds did us WAAAAY more damage than our jockboy bullies, because our bullies didn’t have rape on their agenda. Yes, our bullies had HIGHER STANDARDS.
Like I said ten pages ago: GET OFF YOUR FUCKING CROSS.
manboobzers:
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d1/17/98/d11798570c229633ae097210e244c35d.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f2/5e/0d/f25e0dd1b477bd8fcc2340cbfd52259e.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4a/22/96/4a229640aa49cda8a50482b39734f997.jpg
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/c9/29/b3/c929b3b3bf518044b91981e8ced1bcd6.jpg
“When a geek sees someone else grooving on the thing they love, their reaction is to say “ZOMG YOU LOVE WHAT I LOVE COME WITH ME AND LET US LOVE IT TOGETHER.””
*RAT CLAWS!!*
This has been your daily test of the plague rat fan system, you may now return to your regularly scheduled Emilie Autumn XD
They’ll have to stop identifying as nerds and start identifying as hipsters instead.