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A Voice for Men’s Dan Perrins: Great White Hope for Jamaica’s Gay Men?

Mighty white of you, Dan!
Dan Perrins has launched an international boycott of Jamaica. Mighty white of you, Dan!

So the other day, Canadian Men’s Rights activist and all-around crank Dan Perrins apparently noticed for the first time that gay men face massive bigotry in Jamaica. He reported his findings in a post on A Voice for Men:

Right now in Jamaica lesbian sex is legal while male homosexual sex acts can get you up to 10 years in prison at hard labor.

In other words, homosexual women are accepted as a normal part of society. Homosexual men are criminals, for just existing.

Wait, what?

Yes, it’s true that Jamaica’s sodomy laws make gay male sex — “buggery” — illegal. And it is true that gay men are often the targets of violence. But Jamaican lesbians also face tremendous bigotry and terrible violence — often in the form of “corrective rape.” (You can find several gruesome examples of this detailed in this US State Department report.)  As do others who stray from traditional gender and sexual roles: last month, a gender-nonconforming* teenager was brutally “chopped and stabbed” to death by an angry mob after attending a party dressed as a woman.

But of course Perrins and his AVFM pals aren’t really interested in what’s actually happening to gays or lesbians or trans* folk in Jamaica. They’re interested in making hay out of what they see as another example of evil anti-male bigotry. Here’s how the site is promoting Perrins’ post on its front page:

In Jamaica, you can go to jail for being a gay male, but not for being a lesbian. It is time to quit rewarding this country with tourist dollars that they will use to persecute men for not being of utility to women. Had enough of this shit?

Homophobia has about as much relation to male “utility to women” as the Men’s Rights movement has to a legitimate civil rights movement. That is, approximately none.

Naturally, Perrins doesn’t let his complete ignorance of Jamaican culture — or LGBT issues — get in the way of his grandstanding on the issue, which seems mainly intended as a weird sort of “gotcha” aimed at feminists.

Jamaica’s legal system is in serious need of redress. And folks, since the feminist community, you know, the one that keeps telling us to shut the fuck up because they have teh menz covered, is apparently too busy slut walking to notice this injustice, we need to take up the slack.

And so, with the help of his “activist” friends at A Voice for Men, he’s decided to lead an international boycott against the country. As he puts it:

Folks, it is time to Boycott Jamaica, and to do so for the sake of Equality. And to create an eye-catching ‘hashtag’ in one move ‘#BJ4Equality’.

Yep. AVFM is taking on the Jamaican tourist industry all by itself. And using a hashtag created quite deliberately to evoke the word “blowjob” rather than “boycott” or “jamaica” at first glance.

He’s even put up a little petition you can sign. Last I checked, it had gotten 78 signatures. The Jamaican tourist industry will surely be quaking in its boots.

I doubt that even Perrins is delusional enough to think that AVFM’s petition will make any difference at all to Jamaica’s economy or to the lives of its gay citizens. But he is delusional enough to think that he’s somehow scoring points against feminists.

Feminists are … wrong in their constantly regurgitated claim that the MHRM is homophobic and racist. You are about to help me prove them wrong, again, and also to provide all the ‘nice feminists’ [with an opportunity]  to ‘sign up’ or ‘stfu’ about men’s issues.

Actually, Perrins’ little crusade itself offers ample evidence of both homophobia and racism.

The idea that a white dude in Canada — with basically no knowledge or understanding of Jamaican culture beyond what he’s managed to Google in a few minutes — can swoop in and save Jamaican gays from homophobia reflects a stunning sort of colonialist arrogance and, yes, racism.

What real activists do when they want to help those in other countries is that they look for existing activist groups — both in country and internationally — in order to understand what they’re doing already to fight the problem and how someone outside the country can best aid their efforts.

In the case of Jamaica, the most prominent LGBT activist group is the Jamaica Forum for Lesbians, All-Sexuals and Gays (JFLAG) — which has in the past been strenuously opposed to boycotts like that proposed by Perrins.

Indeed, when a group of American LGBT activists tried to launch a Boycott Jamaica campaign in 2009 — also without checking in with JFLAG first — the Jamaican group found itself having to explain in detail why a boycott was not in the best interest of those the boycott was ostensibly trying to help:

Jamaica’s deeply ingrained antipathy towards homosexuality and homosexuals is a social phenomenon that will not be undone by boycott campaigns or government dictate. It requires the painstaking effort of confronting the society and talking to social actors who can bring change in the way society sees LGBT people. We have been doing this through a small but growing group of increasingly aware opinion leaders who are concerned about the damage homophobia does to our society. We need those ears to continue being open to us and we need the relative safety that some of us have been given to speak to them.

The group also took the American activists to task for their obvious ignorance about gay activism in Jamaica — as evidenced by their targeting of Red Stripe beer, despite Red Stripe’s cooperation with Jamaican LGBT activists and its refusal to sponsor anti-gay reggae performers.

We believe that any overseas entity or organisation seeking to agitate for change in a context with which it has only passing familiarity should first do its homework to ensure that it does not do harm to its credibility and ultimately to the cause of the local community whose interest it seeks to defend.

So, yeah. White people, try not to assume that you know better than black people how to solve the problems of black people. Especially when you don’t actually know shit. Because that’s racist.

As for homophobia, well, I think it’s pretty clear that any (alleged) gay rights campaign that starts from the assumption that Jamaican lesbians have it great is pretty homophobic. AVFMers are the only (alleged) gay rights activists I’ve ever run across who not only think it’s ok to ignore the L, B and T of LGBT but who also enjoy attacking transwomen as self-hating self-castrators and tossing around anti-lesbian slurs for fun. (Indeed, see this anti-lesbian screed from an AVFM regular in the comments to Perrins’ post.)

Meanwhile, the 2nd most energetic Twitter propagandist for the #BJ4Equality campaign, our old friend Fidelbogen, is a fellow who, only a day before the campaign launched was tossing around slurs on Twitter aimed at gay and/or effeminate men. In Jamaica, one of the standard slurs for gay men is “batty boy.” Fidelbogen likes the similar term “poodle boy.”

According to Urban Dictionary, “Poodle Boy” means

A guy who’s a little too much in touch with his fem side. Walks with a sashey and holds his left wrist to his upper chest while gliding forward with his right. Understands house plants and window dressings.

Fidelbogen, mocking gay men one day before launching his career as a putative gay rights activist.

A Voice for Men, so full of hatred and bigotry that they can’t even pull off a momentarily convincing simulacrum of social justice activism.

* The murdered teen has been identified in news accounts as a crossdressing gay male. Some have also described the teen as a transwoman, but it isn’t clear from what I’ve read if the teen identified as one. Hence my use of the term “gender-nonconforming,” which is the terminology used by JFLAG in its statements on the case.

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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I’m still not sure if SandinaFem is a dude trolling or just an idiot. Either way, do not want.

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

@emilygoddess

But of course! The more propaganda the better 😛 Though God knows Boston might as well be another planet for me. Any time I make plans to come down there, something invariably screws up 😎

cloudiah
8 years ago

Shadow’s comment and David’s tweet on the sidebar both lured me back to this post. I’d just like to point out that, after promoting this petition for 6 days on the two most important and well-trafficked MRA sites (AVfM and r/mr), they’re up to 108 signatures.

To me, it looks like maybe MRAs don’t care about gay men very much. Or maybe MRAs are too fucking lazy to sign an e-petition, since as I recall their “Mancouver” one got about the same number of signatures, about 30% of which were jokes (Zombie Andrea Dworkin springs to mind).

emilygoddess
8 years ago

Cloudiah, are you suggesting that The Movement is NOT growing by leaps and bounds every day, poised to become the human rights movement of the 21st century?

kittehserf
8 years ago

emilygoddess – well, it’s growing if you insert the word Bowel between The and Movement.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

It’s really weird to think that without really trying, I’M being more successful as a fucking artist than these guys are at fucking activism.

Good
Good
8 years ago

This is textbook MRA modus operandi:

Step 1: Fin a situation where (you think) women have it better than men.

Step 2: Do no research to find out what the actual situation is or how it came to be.

Step 3: Blame women.

If we reverse genders, isn’t this precisely what feminists do? You’re quite hypocritical. At least the MRAs are factually addressing a clear cut double standard in the actual LAW. So there is no “you think” about it. Lesbians in Jamaica don’t fear going to jail. Gay men do. Corrective rape is a crime in Jamaica. What exactly has been left out of the research?

cloudiah
8 years ago

Feminists don’t blame men, you asshat. And the situation for gay men, lesbians, trans* folks, etc., in Jamaica is terrible, and you should follow the lead of LGBTQ organizations there if you want to try to fix it, rather than assuming you know better than them.

Hey Good, it’s now been more than a week that since AVfM and r/mensrights promoted the idea of signing this petition, and you guys have only gotten 122 signatures. Obviously, the men’s rights “movement” doesn’t care much about gay men. How are you going to blame that one on feminists/women?

Ally S
8 years ago

If we reverse genders, isn’t this precisely what feminists do?

Not really, no – at least not nearly as much as MRAs.

“At least the MRAs are factually addressing a clear cut double standard in the actual LAW. So there is no “you think” about it.”

But their explanation for why lesbian sexual acts are legal is full of shit; it doesn’t even try to explore any possible gender dynamic – it just pins the blame on anti-male lesbians. And most of all, it does not in any way support their absurd conclusion that “homosexual women are accepted as a normal part of society” in Jamaica.

inurashii
inurashii
8 years ago

If we reverse genders, isn’t this precisely what feminists do?

Nope

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

Good, are you ready to direct us to all that scientifical data that proves feminism is wrong yet?

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

Oh wait, that was Rui. I got my trolls mixed up. Sorry.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
8 years ago

Good, here, let me sum up your entire opinion in a few badly phrased, pithy paragraphs.

“I’ve spent a lifetime hunted by the opinions of others
And have therefore decided they’re wrong
Rather than consider how things fit together
My delusions and disregard makes me strong!

Feminists are all out to blame men
And blame must mean evil must mean wrong
So I know Feminists all lie and are nasty people
they said bad things about my schlong…

This twisted mockery of knowledge I sprout
Is only made better for being all wrong
Because if its powered by denial and msiinformation
At least me and my pals’ll get along”

cloudiah
8 years ago

That’s awesome, Fibinachi!

chibigodzilla
8 years ago

I believe that Good has just given us cause to revise the MRA MO:

Step 1: Find a situation where (you think) women have it better than men.

Step 2: Do no research to find out what the actual situation is or how it came to be.

Step 3: Blame women.

Ally S
8 years ago

We can revise it once more:

Step 1: Blame women.

Step 2: Blame “manginas.”

Step 3: Blame women.

emilygoddess
8 years ago

@Good

What exactly has been left out of the research?

The voices of LGBT+ Jamaicans, especially regarding what form of support they actually want from allies. Indeed, the people behind this petition/boycott don’t seem to be in contact with any actual Jamaicans, period. Rather a glaring omission, don’t you think?

kittehserf
8 years ago

122 douchebags saying “Don’t go to Jamaica! Evil lesbians have all the power and are cruel to gay men!” doesn’t sound like something anyone who isn’t a douchebag would call activism. Nope, just more of the same MRA hatred of women. Nothing to see here folks, move right along.

Good
Good
8 years ago

The voices of LGBT+ Jamaicans, especially regarding what form of support they actually want from allies. Indeed, the people behind this petition/boycott don’t seem to be in contact with any actual Jamaicans, period. Rather a glaring omission, don’t you think.

I have the sneaky suspicion that you didn’t give a hoot when ‘Boycott Jamaica’ was launched in 2009 by LGBTs in San Francisco, despite opposition from Jamaican LGBT activists. You just see this as a good straw man argument that enables you to ignore a national law that persecutes a group of men for certain behavior while no such law applies to women who practice the same behavior.

And the fact that women in Muslim countries don’t see themselves as oppressed doesn’t stop Western feminist activism on their behalf.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/world/middleeast/08women.html?ex=1307419200&en=aa38dff50cc6324f&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Shut up, not Good. WTF do Muslim women have to do with Jamaican men?

According to Good, corrective rape for lesbians would be A-OK, since there’s no laws against them. Good is a bad person.

Good
Good
8 years ago

Not really, no – at least not nearly as much as MRAs.

Yes, really. Far more than MRAs. MRAs target modern feminism not women.. Feminism has historically targeted men.

Good
Good
8 years ago

According to Good, corrective rape for lesbians would be A-OK, since there’s no laws against them. Good is a bad person

Do you not understand the ignorance and childishness of your response?

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

Yes, really. Far more than MRAs. MRAs target modern feminism not women.. Feminism has historically targeted men.

Citations or GTFO.

No, just GTFO.

Targeted men?

When feminists point out ONE IN FIVE WOMEN IN THE US HAS BEEN RAPED… that’s targeting men, right?

GTFO.

cloudiah
8 years ago

UnGood, why have so few MRAs signed the petition? Why don’t MRAs care about gay men? Even leaving aside whether or not this petition/boycott is the right thing to do, why aren’t a significant number of MRAs taking the tiniest step possible to support gay Jamaican men?

PJ
PJ
8 years ago

Good

JFLAG have said they don’t want any boycotts, why not just accept that they know how best to deal with this? Why does it mean more to you that MRAs should have the last say? Could it be because you don’t actually care?

Oh, what am I saying? Of course you care, you signed a petition!

cloudiah
8 years ago

I love that UnGood’s best argument isn’t that AVfM’s efforts are not fucked up, just that other largely white organizations have also historically failed to consult with people of color before deciding what is best for them.

Good
Good
8 years ago

When feminists point out ONE IN FIVE WOMEN IN THE US HAS BEEN RAPED… that’s targeting men, right?

Promoting this falsehood is not a good thing:

http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html

When MRAs point out that as many women initiate domestic violence as men, are MRAs targeting women?

cloudiah
8 years ago

WHY DON’T MRAS CARE ABOUT GAY MEN IN JAMAICA, GOODIE?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

OMG, Good’s idiocy know no bounds.

Hey Good, got any more bullshit MRA tropes you’d like to throw out there?

Good
Good
8 years ago

I love that UnGood’s best argument isn’t that AVfM’s efforts are not fucked up, just that other largely white organizations have also historically failed to consult with people of color before deciding what is best for them.

Interesting that gay Russians are against Olympic boycotts and I’m quite sure that most Russians are white.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Good, are your arms tired from moving the goalposts? You should go lay down.

cloudiah
8 years ago

This little meltdown is getting hilarious.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I think Good needs his binky and a nap.

cloudiah
8 years ago

White organizations substituting their judgment for POC organizations isn’t racist, and I can prove it. One time my mother told me to take out the trash, and I told her “Nuh uh, I’ll do it later,” AND WE’RE BOTH WHITE.

Ally S
8 years ago

Promoting this falsehood is not a good thing:

http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html

Was that an attempt to make people here laugh? Because I must say that it was a decent attempt.

If not, I really hope you don’t seriously think it’s a good critique.

chibigodzilla
8 years ago

White organizations substituting their judgment for POC organizations isn’t racist, and I can prove it. One time my mother told me to take out the trash, and I told her “Nuh uh, I’ll do it later,” AND WE’RE BOTH WHITE.

CHECKMATE, FEMINISTS!

katz
8 years ago

Ah, Christina Hoff Sommers, that bastion of intellect.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Good, that you think it’s some kind of gotcha that feminism has well documented race issues speaks volumes to your ignorance.

Good
Good
8 years ago

I know that you are familiar with it, but it serves well to show your hypocrisy in this conversation.

PJ
PJ
8 years ago

Good

Muslim women don’t see themselves as oppressed > MRAs target modern feminism not women > Feminism has historically targeted men > MRAs point out that as many women initiate domestic violence as men > gay Russians are against Olympic boycotts > Russians are white > feminism is racist > you’re hypocrites

What does ANY of this have to do with it being illegal to be a gay man in Jamaica and how is it helping them?

Ally S
8 years ago

“I know that you are familiar with it, but it serves well to show your hypocrisy in this conversation.”

It would only be hypocrisy if there was a denial that feminism has a racist history. But quite a few feminists are not only ashamed of this history, but are also working to change it. So yeah, you don’t really know what you’re talking about here.

Ally S
8 years ago

@me

But quite a few feminists are not only ashamed of this history, but are also working to change it.

Oops, that’s misleading. I meant “But quite a few feminists are not only ashamed of this history, but are also working to make feminism as a movement less biased towards white people.”

Ally S
8 years ago

Also, David, please put a trigger warning for rape apologia and victim-blaming on the Christina Hoff Sommers article linked by Good. It’s not obvious from the title, but she engages in some horrible rape apologia somewhere in the middle of the article.

emilygoddess
8 years ago

I know that you are familiar with it, but it serves well to show your hypocrisy in this conversation.

What hypocrisy? “White feminists should listen to WOC voices” and “white queers should listen to queer Jamaican voices” seem pretty consistent to me.

katz
8 years ago

Hey, nobody mentioned the Virgil kickstarter in this thread yet, did they? Of interest to anyone who actually cares about gay rights in Jamaica.

pecunium
8 years ago

Good: When MRAs point out that as many women initiate domestic violence as men, are MRAs targeting women?

No. They’re misrepresenting the data.

Glad to clear that up for you.

Carlo
Carlo
8 years ago

@Nitrina
“Gays are discriminated against in Jamaica, and they’re immediately pissed that (they perceive) gay women aren’t. How much you wanna bet that if the bigotry were “equally” attacking both gays and lesbians, they’d have no problem with the bigotry? Shorter perrins: “No ones doing anything to address this agregious not hating on lesbians enough!”

So by that logic, saying for instance that women infibulation is a discrimation on women is in fact said by feminists who are pissed that men aren’t discriminated against too? And that noone’s doing anything to address this agregious not hating on men enough?

Do you think women are angry at men because their sisters get infibulation in some countries? I bet they are, rightly so. Does that mean those women are pissed off because men aren’t evirated too?

What the fuck of a logic do you use?

Carlo
Carlo
8 years ago

@Howard
“ONE IN FIVE WOMEN IN THE US HAS BEEN RAPED”

Provide the source of that statement. That’s about 20 to 30 million women. You really think that claim is true? how many men would have to be rapist to stack up those numbers? Do you see what a bunch of BS you just wrote? Also, you claim that’s what feminists point out. If that’s what they actually point out, unless I see actual numbers and report, then you just put a case against feminism.

katz
8 years ago

Carlo, protip: When you’re necroing a dead thread, it’s best to leave a drive-by comment. That way, there’s a chance that no one will notice. If you leave multiple comments, you’re increasing the odds that someone might *shudder* answer you.