Categories
a voice for men all about the menz antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? fidelbogen grandiosity gross incompetence homophobia irony alert misandry misogyny MRA pig ignorance racism rape transphobia

A Voice for Men’s Dan Perrins: Great White Hope for Jamaica’s Gay Men?

Mighty white of you, Dan!
Dan Perrins has launched an international boycott of Jamaica. Mighty white of you, Dan!

So the other day, Canadian Men’s Rights activist and all-around crank Dan Perrins apparently noticed for the first time that gay men face massive bigotry in Jamaica. He reported his findings in a post on A Voice for Men:

Right now in Jamaica lesbian sex is legal while male homosexual sex acts can get you up to 10 years in prison at hard labor.

In other words, homosexual women are accepted as a normal part of society. Homosexual men are criminals, for just existing.

Wait, what?

Yes, it’s true that Jamaica’s sodomy laws make gay male sex — “buggery” — illegal. And it is true that gay men are often the targets of violence. But Jamaican lesbians also face tremendous bigotry and terrible violence — often in the form of “corrective rape.” (You can find several gruesome examples of this detailed in this US State Department report.)  As do others who stray from traditional gender and sexual roles: last month, a gender-nonconforming* teenager was brutally “chopped and stabbed” to death by an angry mob after attending a party dressed as a woman.

But of course Perrins and his AVFM pals aren’t really interested in what’s actually happening to gays or lesbians or trans* folk in Jamaica. They’re interested in making hay out of what they see as another example of evil anti-male bigotry. Here’s how the site is promoting Perrins’ post on its front page:

In Jamaica, you can go to jail for being a gay male, but not for being a lesbian. It is time to quit rewarding this country with tourist dollars that they will use to persecute men for not being of utility to women. Had enough of this shit?

Homophobia has about as much relation to male “utility to women” as the Men’s Rights movement has to a legitimate civil rights movement. That is, approximately none.

Naturally, Perrins doesn’t let his complete ignorance of Jamaican culture — or LGBT issues — get in the way of his grandstanding on the issue, which seems mainly intended as a weird sort of “gotcha” aimed at feminists.

Jamaica’s legal system is in serious need of redress. And folks, since the feminist community, you know, the one that keeps telling us to shut the fuck up because they have teh menz covered, is apparently too busy slut walking to notice this injustice, we need to take up the slack.

And so, with the help of his “activist” friends at A Voice for Men, he’s decided to lead an international boycott against the country. As he puts it:

Folks, it is time to Boycott Jamaica, and to do so for the sake of Equality. And to create an eye-catching ‘hashtag’ in one move ‘#BJ4Equality’.

Yep. AVFM is taking on the Jamaican tourist industry all by itself. And using a hashtag created quite deliberately to evoke the word “blowjob” rather than “boycott” or “jamaica” at first glance.

He’s even put up a little petition you can sign. Last I checked, it had gotten 78 signatures. The Jamaican tourist industry will surely be quaking in its boots.

I doubt that even Perrins is delusional enough to think that AVFM’s petition will make any difference at all to Jamaica’s economy or to the lives of its gay citizens. But he is delusional enough to think that he’s somehow scoring points against feminists.

Feminists are … wrong in their constantly regurgitated claim that the MHRM is homophobic and racist. You are about to help me prove them wrong, again, and also to provide all the ‘nice feminists’ [with an opportunity]  to ‘sign up’ or ‘stfu’ about men’s issues.

Actually, Perrins’ little crusade itself offers ample evidence of both homophobia and racism.

The idea that a white dude in Canada — with basically no knowledge or understanding of Jamaican culture beyond what he’s managed to Google in a few minutes — can swoop in and save Jamaican gays from homophobia reflects a stunning sort of colonialist arrogance and, yes, racism.

What real activists do when they want to help those in other countries is that they look for existing activist groups — both in country and internationally — in order to understand what they’re doing already to fight the problem and how someone outside the country can best aid their efforts.

In the case of Jamaica, the most prominent LGBT activist group is the Jamaica Forum for Lesbians, All-Sexuals and Gays (JFLAG) — which has in the past been strenuously opposed to boycotts like that proposed by Perrins.

Indeed, when a group of American LGBT activists tried to launch a Boycott Jamaica campaign in 2009 — also without checking in with JFLAG first — the Jamaican group found itself having to explain in detail why a boycott was not in the best interest of those the boycott was ostensibly trying to help:

Jamaica’s deeply ingrained antipathy towards homosexuality and homosexuals is a social phenomenon that will not be undone by boycott campaigns or government dictate. It requires the painstaking effort of confronting the society and talking to social actors who can bring change in the way society sees LGBT people. We have been doing this through a small but growing group of increasingly aware opinion leaders who are concerned about the damage homophobia does to our society. We need those ears to continue being open to us and we need the relative safety that some of us have been given to speak to them.

The group also took the American activists to task for their obvious ignorance about gay activism in Jamaica — as evidenced by their targeting of Red Stripe beer, despite Red Stripe’s cooperation with Jamaican LGBT activists and its refusal to sponsor anti-gay reggae performers.

We believe that any overseas entity or organisation seeking to agitate for change in a context with which it has only passing familiarity should first do its homework to ensure that it does not do harm to its credibility and ultimately to the cause of the local community whose interest it seeks to defend.

So, yeah. White people, try not to assume that you know better than black people how to solve the problems of black people. Especially when you don’t actually know shit. Because that’s racist.

As for homophobia, well, I think it’s pretty clear that any (alleged) gay rights campaign that starts from the assumption that Jamaican lesbians have it great is pretty homophobic. AVFMers are the only (alleged) gay rights activists I’ve ever run across who not only think it’s ok to ignore the L, B and T of LGBT but who also enjoy attacking transwomen as self-hating self-castrators and tossing around anti-lesbian slurs for fun. (Indeed, see this anti-lesbian screed from an AVFM regular in the comments to Perrins’ post.)

Meanwhile, the 2nd most energetic Twitter propagandist for the #BJ4Equality campaign, our old friend Fidelbogen, is a fellow who, only a day before the campaign launched was tossing around slurs on Twitter aimed at gay and/or effeminate men. In Jamaica, one of the standard slurs for gay men is “batty boy.” Fidelbogen likes the similar term “poodle boy.”

According to Urban Dictionary, “Poodle Boy” means

A guy who’s a little too much in touch with his fem side. Walks with a sashey and holds his left wrist to his upper chest while gliding forward with his right. Understands house plants and window dressings.

Fidelbogen, mocking gay men one day before launching his career as a putative gay rights activist.

A Voice for Men, so full of hatred and bigotry that they can’t even pull off a momentarily convincing simulacrum of social justice activism.

* The murdered teen has been identified in news accounts as a crossdressing gay male. Some have also described the teen as a transwoman, but it isn’t clear from what I’ve read if the teen identified as one. Hence my use of the term “gender-nonconforming,” which is the terminology used by JFLAG in its statements on the case.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

161 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Hyena Girl
Hyena Girl
8 years ago

Sadly they miss the fact that historically lesbians are ignored because they’re not men and thus not important to a male dominated culture. Are they going to boycott Christianity as a whole now because the God of the Bible has some nasty and threatening things to say about the gays but he’s evidently cool with lesbians?

sarahlizhousespouse
8 years ago

I wonder if Danny boy has ever heard of a term called “White Man’s Burden”.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

People who never leave their basements won’t go to Jamaica? That’s some fine activism. HAHAHAHA.

#bjforequality? OK, gotta go find the mister, BRB.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

WTF is a poodle boy? Is it a guy with short, fluffy curls, like Christopher Atkins in The Blue Lagoon?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I mean, I’ve known people who’ve owned poodles. In my experience they’re a. very smart, and b. often rather bad tempered (I would be too if people gave me a haircut like that). They mostly seem to see house plants as something to either chew on or pee in.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

(The poodles, I mean. Not the people who own them. That sounded awkward.)

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

David: Thanks for the arrow to JFLAG, and the general idea of working with local groups when you’re hoping to influence social justice issues outside your own backyard. It’s a crucial thing, and a lesson that some genuinely earnest groups have not yet learned, creating significant problems.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Fiddle-dee-fee, the poodles would like to have a word with you:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/43/99675645_d2bdb22287.jpg

entropistanon
8 years ago

Yet another case of MRA dudebros just not getting it. Here’s a tip, guys: don’t take up a (unbidden) gay rights movement for the sole purpose of trying to show the evil feminists that you’re not homophobic. There are so many things wrong with that I can’t even list them all here.

leftwingfox
8 years ago

Awesome work, David. I’ll look into tossing some money the direction of JFLAG.

Ally S
8 years ago

You are about to help me prove them wrong, again

Wait, so they’ve proven us wrong about their homophobia and racism in the past? I don’t think so.

gillyrosebee
8 years ago

They don’t just get a few details wrong, they are fundamentally idiots from soup to nuts. Wrong on the parameters and context, wrong on interpretation of the situation (lesbian sex isn’t specifically called out in the law = it’s totally promoted by the Jamaican government, yo!), and wrong in that they think making a petition online = activism.

Of course, given how very wrong they have it, perhaps we should be glad that all they are doing is making petitions…

Lloyd
Lloyd
8 years ago

While reading the definition of poodle boy I looked down to see my hand against my upper chest, it was my right hand though and not my left. I do know what curtains, blinds and sashes are. I’m terrible with plants but I do walk with a sway, do I still count as a poodle boy?

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

The whole homophobia = not being of utility to women thing . . . . NO.

How far beyond ridiculous can you go?

katz
8 years ago

I love that the goal of the petition is 100 signatures. He’s not even hoping that it might take off.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

For bonus points, explain why, if women hate gay men because they are of no “utility” to us, yaoi is a thing.

Hyena Girl
Hyena Girl
8 years ago

@CassandraSays
And it is such a lovely lovely thing at that.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Also explain why every boy band (and a fair number of the rock bands) in Japan and Korea does yaoi-themed fanservice. That should be hilarious even by MRA standards.

Linds
8 years ago

On the other hand, this kinda makes me want to donate to JFLAG.

Michael Søndberg Olsen

This is so grotesque. “To prove our maley-male solidairty we’ll gripe about how gay men are treated in Jamaica… in the dumbest most oblivious racist way possible: Gay men are surely being punished because women have no need for them!” (What the everfucking HELL?) I’ve read stupid before, but this takes the cake. And eats it. I hear weird circus music and am afraid to die of incredulous laughter.

Barbara
Barbara
8 years ago

So now the MRM supports gay men? Since when?

Somehow I don’t think that they will have much success in convincing gay men to hate women with the same blind rage that they do–this just an attempt to lend themselves legitimacy.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I’m not sure that it’s possible to hate women as much as MRAs do without there being an element of sexual frustration underlying it.

(Please note that sexual frustration is not a valid excuse for being an asshole.)

cloudiah
8 years ago

It’s such a classic mansplaining situation, assuming you have the solution for other people so there’s no need to consult them.

Michael Søndberg Olsen

Seriously, I’m laughing so hard that now I have the hiccups. Fuck.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

My husband really likes the term ‘all-sexuals.’ Go JFLAG!

Though actually Dave, there are PLENTY of gay rights activists who are totally okay with throwing bi folk or trans folk under the bus. (And I’m sure lesbians have had trouble as well.) Just Google “Human Rights Campaign” and “transphobia” for some examples. Also read up on Sylvia Rivera. (Or don’t. It’s a very sad story.)

Michael Søndberg Olsen

LBT, give your husband a highfive from me. (Hey, that rhymes!)
All-sexual is great.
And yeah, the tendency of some gay groups to hate on bi and trans people is sad.

entropistanon
8 years ago

@LBT: I will use that term ALL THE TIME now. I hope I don’t infringe on any sort of copyright…

Yeah, it just continues to be demonstrated over and over that activists for a certain specific cause can still show bigotry toward another – even though they should know better. It’s just as sad every time I see another case of it, though. 🙁

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
8 years ago

There are a few gay male MRAs, and they hate women just as much as the heteros do. I had a fun conversation with one who told me I was a terrible person because I’m a woman with gay male friends. The gist of his argument was that the only reason that men are friends with women is possible sex, and since these men didn’t want to have sex with me, I was forcing them stay friends in order to use them to lift heavy things and kill spiders, all the while knowing that I would never have to pay them back with the only currency women possess.

hometeampaper
hometeampaper
8 years ago

@YoullNeverGuess

As opposed to straight male friends, who would be entitled to sex? “Forcing them?” What?

Jesus.

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

“I was forcing them stay friends in order to use them to lift heavy things and kill spiders, all the while knowing that I would never have to pay them back with the only currency women possess.”

Oh, barf. For the record, this woman does NOT ever want ANYONE to kill spiders for her. Long live the spiders!

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

Also, how on earth were you *forcing* them to be friends with you? Did they explain that one?

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

Given that the MRM insists women are entirely incompetent at government and yet are in charge of everything, I’m pretty sure that they think women have magic powers.

leftwingfox
8 years ago

YoullNeverGuess: Wow. Just… wow.

hometeampaper
hometeampaper
8 years ago

When I hear things like that I just feel bad for them. If I thought like they did I wouldn’t have some of my best friends.

(Cue MRA asking why I couldn’t just replace them with MALE friends. Misandry!)

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
8 years ago

He didn’t explain how I was forcing them to be friends. It tied into the terrible injustice that is friendzoning, and how gay men were just preemptively friendzoned, though that doesn’t explain anything. At that point, he went off onto a tangent about how some of his gay male friends were stupid enough to be friends with women, and his assessment was that as long as everyone was aware of The Situation, that being that his friends were getting used and receiving nothing in return, that it wasn’t his business. He didn’t seem like he had the sunniest outlook on life.

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

“If I thought like they did I wouldn’t have some of my best friends.”

Right. Ultimately, thinking like that only cheats you out of the best part of life.

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
8 years ago

Oh, right, I remember. Gay friends show how selfish a woman is because she gets “orbiters” without even giving a poor hetero male a CHANCE to be a Nice Guy and earn sex from her. So it’s like friendzoning, without the woman putting in the effort of explaining to her entourage that she doesn’t like them That Way.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

Gay friends show how selfish a woman is because she gets “orbiters” without even giving a poor hetero male a CHANCE to be a Nice Guy and earn sex from her.

…which just goes to show you the root of the mindset. A woman is a resource, not a person. All her time is owed to those who want to have sex with her. Any friends of her own, any interests, these are like stealing from the poor menz.

I feel icky now.

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
8 years ago

Okay, last comment – I especially appreciate this post by Manboobz, because if I had seen the AVfM petition, I would have thought that it seemed… wrong… but I don’t want to support homophobia, so perhaps I should sign the petition and boycott Jamaica? This sorted a lot of issues out, so thanks!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

But, um, if a man is gay he’d probably prefer to be “friendzoned” by a woman than to have her pining after him/hitting on him/in general refusing to accept the fact that he’s gay. What’s the point of offering someone a “payment” for their friendship (ick) that they wouldn’t want anyway?

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
8 years ago

It’s easier to understand when you realize that while male companionship can be a bonus, female companionship is just one more burden men must shoulder. It also helps to view all relationships as transactional.

cloudiah
8 years ago

It’s easier to understand when you realize that while male companionship can be a bonus, female companionship is just one more burden men must shoulder. It also helps to view all relationships as transactional.

Ick. That’s not directed at you, YoullNeverGuess, just at the sad reality that many people view it exactly that way.

kittehserf
8 years ago

Sounds like it’s just as well that MRA is gay, You’llNeverGuess – I bet he’d add “creep” to “jerk” in his behaviour to women if he were interested in us sexually.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Except that MRAs don’t enjoy the company of other men either. They don’t seem to enjoy anything, other than screeching at women on the internet.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: YoullNeverGuess

Wow, that is special behavior there. Then again I find the ‘friendzone’ concept absurd on its face.

You know, sometimes I wonder how I’ve managed to get as many friends and fans as I do. But seeing how awful some people are at treating other people like people…

WeeBoy
WeeBoy
8 years ago

Seriously, MRAs, fuck right off with your white, straight, saviour complex. YOU ARE NOT HELPING. Don’t use queer folk to prove just how activisty you are and try to blame women for gay oppression.

Ugh, though I must say, some of the most virulent misogynists I’ve met have been gay men. They weren’t MRAs, but they were of the opinion that women are fundamentally worthless and pity straight guys who have to spend time around them just to get laid.

MaudeLL
8 years ago

I know it’s been said, but… what is it with those guys thinking that conservative ‘values’ are feminist? It’s weird enough when they equate traditional marriage to feminism, but sodomy laws targeted at gay men? Men who are of no ‘use’ to women are punished? A blatant exercise in projection.

He also seems unaware of the irony of: “those feminists saying they have men covered! But don’t you worry! Here at AVfM, white folks got you covered, Jamaican people! We’ll fix it for you, ‘women are cunts’-style!”

MaudeLL
8 years ago

Perrins prediction that ‘BJ4Equality’ would cause a feminist meltdown because of the BJ part is quite risible. He actually rebuts his imaginary feminist. Oh yeah, of course, he writes she would call him a creep, not a non sequitur at all.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Soon they’ll start posting entire arguments with their imaginary feminists, and then the conclusion where the feminists repent.

Oh wait, they already did that with the rape-the-comfort-women-into-submission fanfic.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

Oh my god. I just realized.

I’ve joked for a while about what I call ‘tumblr activism,’ a form of slacktivism that pretty much involves:

1. Making a vague statement about oppression.
2. Stating your intent to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about this oppression.
3. Pat yourself on the back for being such a daring activist.

But that’s actually EXACTLY what they’re doing! I mean, seriously now, how many Jamaican products do these guys have, that they CAN boycott in the first place? And even so, they aren’t actually doing anything about the oppression, they’re just… not buying Red Stripe. Or going to Jamaica. (Which I doubt was a common pasttime of theirs in the first place.)

I’m embarrassed for them.

1 2 3 4