So the uber-manly woman-hating woman-chasing alpha dogs over in the Red Pill subreddit are discussing the declining marriage rate. Which is a GOOD thing. Because marriage is for BETAs and FRUMPY WOMEN! It’s worse than RAPE!
![Marriage is RAPE - so if marriage goes down, then it's a good thing. permalink source give gold save hide child comments [–]Max___Power 49 points 1 day ago (64|15) No, it's worse. Marriage is institutionally promoted to men as a positive. If I ever took a contract to my lawyer where the other party could opt out at any time AND take 50% of MY shit with them, he'd chase me out of his office and yell at me to find a hobby. Yet men willingly purchase $30,000 flawed rocks for the privilege of asking a frumpy woman to sign such a contract. LO freaking L, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/wnosemarriagerape.png?resize=580%2C236&ssl=1)
Huh. If any of these Red Pill dudes were to get married I’m pretty sure it would be be a completely, you know, consensual act on their part. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t rape a, you know, nonconsensual thing? (Reading the Red Pill subreddit, it’s sometimes hard to remember.)
At this point a fellow calling himself TheZimmerMan throws in his two cents on the subject. Like his fellow Red Pill alpha dudes, he’s no fan of marriage. But then he remembers that feminists are supposedly plotting to take down western civilization by destroying marriage. And feminists are bad, right? And so his brain sort of explodes, producing this wondrous bit of red pill word salad, sprinkled liberally with racism as well as misogyny:
Wow. Just wow.
I’ve never seen “Disney” used as a verb before.
Also, I’m not exactly sure what “they want everyone to be on welfare barley subsiding” means. Unless the government has started up some sort of barley redistribution system I can only assume he meant “barely subsisting.”
I also like the complaint about how the “actual working man” pays for all these evil welfare moms while “being denied traditional provider respect and benefits.”
In misogynist-speak, that’s code for “how come we have to pay money for welfare when we don’t even get to fuck the welfare moms and boss them around?”
Red Pill dudes: please continue your marriage strike. Also consider: A vow of silence? Moving to a desert island? Living the rest of your life in a hole in the ground?
(Thanks to Gemma_Lou in the Blue Pill subreddit for pointing me to this wondrous Red Pill discussion.)
MRA’s want unfair advantages across the board, want to be able to get away with rape, etc., and are dedicated to spending an enormous amount time working very hard at trying to appear not only innocent, but victimized.
I’m not sure if they know they’re basically criminal, and are trying to camouflage it, or if they’re so self-deceived that they don’t realize that what they’re doing boils down to an apology for, and a support of, criminal activity–probably both, depending on who you’re talking about.
I don’t think they perceive themselves as criminal. Their arguments have more of a “once upon a time these things were not seen as criminal, and then feminists fucked things up, and we must restore the previous order of things, which was the true and righteous order”. Which is why their rants so often end up reading like a Gor novel.
Good point!
I keep hoping they’ll pick up the word “modalities” from Norman, just because it would be funny.
And while weeping with a rage – an activity I didn’t think I’d be doing on the day I turned 22, mind you – I’m going to just continue on and derail this entire thread.
Why? I haven’t slept in a long time, and I need to wait 45 minutes for something to happen. Also, II’m sort of upset at Tumblr. Sorry.
I am not a girl, and I think I turn into a man today, based on sheer chronology, so I’m not going to tell you what to think, since I’m neither David nor Ferrets (Or maybe I am? CATS).
For the record, killing people is not okay.
For the record, stating that you will kill someone can be okay (“I will kill you for that! Drop that cookie now, they’re so delicious you know I’ll put on extra weight because I’ll eat all of them!”).
I don’t advocate the murder of anyone, but I do advocate the notion that as long as no one is offended nor slighted, you are allowed to make jokes and have fun, and that exaggeration is a valuable tool of instructive information sharing. It’s still a little crass, but, then again, so was Colonial Mar—nonononoitdoesn’texist.
Let’s play a game of Tumblr: The Hatening. If you’re a child, a minor, a person with no sanity points to spare. a human being and or a duck, you might want to not read further. Sometimes, Tumblr gets a little irate. It’s a great site actually and some fan fiction is wonderful and I’ve seen some beautiful, beautiful things.
In fact, here’s some beautiful things on Tumblr to balance out the instructive stupid we’ll soon be looking at. Consider it your inoculation against virulent idiocy. http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/beautiful-things
And now, instead, for an inculcation of hate:
Notice the, at the time of this writing, 384 notes pinned to the this fan fiction wherein Spider-man (A man with a no kill code) helps Anita Sarkesian (A real person who does not own a gold plated border lands gun) shoot and kill a man on a giant golden throne made of guns for the crime of attempting to resurrect a weathered old symbol of action gaming past and bring it back as a lich.
Since liches, giant golden thrones, spider-man, the green goblin, web slinging, gold plated guns, guards in psycho desert Walker uniforms and school-girls helped imprisoned to prop up a corpse are all fictional things, my reasonable conclusion is that this fan-fiction, written by someone who is not Anita, and is a fictional story of fictional events presented in an exaggerated and satirical manner. How does the internet respond to this? A HAND PICKING OF COMMENTS:
( Edit: Please, please remember the beautiful things )
By not knowing what words mean:
Yes. Merely touching a man in this world means that you hate yourself. Men are loathsome creatures, you know? And if you can’t fly under your own power, and fear falling from a great height, you are clearly insisting that women should be hated.
By not understanding fiction, stories or messages. Liking something doesn’t mean you think killing people is okay. And liking fictional violence with a point doesn’t mean you actually want to inflict violence on other people, because in most cases, the violence is fictional.
My weekly Dungeons and Dragons game and my novel both rely kind of heavily on that aspect, and if it turns out I’ve been wrong all along, I will have committed a crime as great as Colonial Marines — aw aw aw it’s like a Pavlov reflex, it just makes the cortex scream.
You’re allowed to have fun. And even as a woman, you’re allowed to to think stories are entertaining.
Also, coincidentally, I think this is also a person who hasn’t played Colonial Marines. Oh shit no I remembered Colonial Marines exist again. The caustic sting of hatred. It is like an acid of the mind. Pain. Pain and rage. RAGE. RAGE.
It’s not “men”, it’s a “Person”. Incidentally, it’s actually possible that Fiction-Sarkesian in this story doesn’t just murder “men”, the gender of the two cosplaying guards is never revealed.
Also, notice how expressing an opinion (“Princesses and women who constantly need saving might tie into the idea that women are passive objects to be acquired after a struggle between two men or more men”) is clearly a death threat against all men, everywhere, who are pigs and should die.
Did the MRA infiltrate Tumblr? Or is MRA-Internet-Idiocy like a transporting meme that gradually converts sectors of the Internet into cesspools of bile and rage?
Oh well.
Probably the same kind of rage this person feels about feminists and their conversation. Someone doesn’t like conversation or debate, huh.
Being told “You know, there are people who occassionally have it worse than you” is the same as being told “You’re not allowed to have an opinion!”
And that means everyone else and Feminism is wrong, don’t’cha know? If it wasn’t because my brain was already on fire for remember Colonial Marines, this little feat of proxy reversal of tone would make me quite irrate.
Huh, there was no brief flash of pain there. But… my nose is bleeding. And my hands feel numb.
Aw.
And this one is really interesting.
I get that “Liking” something that involves the murder of a real person by another person, and also Spider-Man is, possible, crossing a kind of line. I’m not sure Randy Pitchford, who always seemed like a genial, friendly man in the videos and press releases, would particularly relish this image of him being shot with a gold plated gun.
But no one is advocating that anyone actually go out and shoot him, and the take away from this particular short story isn’t “Murder Men”; it’s that Colonial Marines was a crime against humanity.
But, of course, representatives of a movement who are women and have opinions must be chaste, soft spoken and kind, and never, ever relish any kind of anything, because if they do so, they are evil and mean and cross a line.
As a person who got exposed to Sarkesian’s work, by the way, I can tell you she voiced the same opinion many, many other people have made before (And, yeah, voiced that one kind of poorly, in my mind): Not that violence in games is bad, but that violence in games need not be everything a game is.
I was told a term once that I quite like to remember, called “Fragmentation”. I’ve been told that the psychological term is actually “Splitting”, but essentially, it’s the problem the human has with keeping two ideas with divergent viewpoints in mind at the same time.
Beautiful people get higher wages in some studies, they’re seen as smarter, someone who is kind to you is also percieved as being more beautiful, things that taste well are also “Healthy” and things that taste bad are “Bad for you” (Spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down…).
Heuristic Fragmentation is a term for making shorthand analysis of a subject by rapidly grouping together negative traits or positive traits.
So Feminist Frequency has an opinion, and that opinion must mean Sarkesian hates men. And if Sarkesian hates men, it must mean that she is a horrible person.
And that must men she “Murders men” (instead of just a man, singular) and that must mean she hates men, which automatically also means that her otherwise expressed opinions are all invalid and useless and suck and are just expressions of her own base hatred.
So she crosses a line by liking something, because you need to be pure all the time, and if not, your stated opinion on entirely unrelated material means you’re a man hater.
@MisandryAintAThingFeministsToldMe
The hatred of men should be defended for the same reason that the hatred of women should be defended, for the same reason that the hatred of dogs should be defended, for the same reason that the hatred of knobs should be defended.
Because you are allowed to have opinions, and you are allowed to state them, but you aren’t allowed to cause injury with your words. Freeze peach. Free speech. It’s a kind of a thing. For everyone.
For instance, my freely expressed opinion is just how bloody trite it is to harp that same point when everyone must know that it’s not quite the case. It’s perfectly okay to fantasize killing real people. No, really. That’s the bare minimum requirement for any kind of post-apocalyptic setting, a mass die-off, of real, people, in this world, today.
I’m not saying it’s a good, or that you should do it, but you’re certainly fucking allowed to, as long as you also point out – dear god, murder is actually bad. Fantasties. They’re a thing! Like Alien: Colonial Marines! Which I would wish where a real person just so I could sit down and have a conversation with that person and finally, finally understand why it had to hurt everyone. Why it did what it did. We only wanted to like the game, but, no. No.
Only ash and pain and broken dreams. And the flickering thing that used to be a heart. Alien: Colonial Marines is so that when I read your post, all I could think of was “Oh, well. It’s certainly stupid and silly, but it’s not Alien: Colonial Marines”.’
Ahem.
In this fantasy of fiction, multiple people die. Some are blown up by a goblin bomb. That’s a shitty way to go.
But the element fixated on is the woman and the gun. What does that really say about anything?
What, so the Green Goblin is allowed to kill people? And Randy Pitchford can just casually order his guards to murder visitors?
But, no. No. Of course not. Because this isn’t about the ludo-narrative dissonance of fan fiction as it applies to social justice goals and personal responsibility, nor is it about the nature of opinion versus fact and fantasy, this is about people not like a woman. For saying things that somewhat relate to them. And so anything, anything she does is wrong.
The vary and constant attacks against someone expressing the opinion that “You know, you don’t have to draw the armor of that female warrior as consisting of nothing but a thong” is utter affirmation that the way women are generally perceived, explained and thought about it culture-wise and the codes for interactions that shares between every member of that society is stupid, wrong and utterly, utterly inane, and exists on a level that fundamentally makes the world a worse, bitter and more boring place.
Sort of like, in fact, Aliens: Colonial Marines. Only, you know, real and bad for everyone, not just the sanity of gamers and fans.
And now I’m going to go eat a cake.
RE: lacking empathy
There are people who genuinely have trouble empathisizing with others due to neurological differences (I can’t remember the exact causations so anyone who knows feel free to fill in the blanks I’m leaving), but I don’t think it’s fair to conflate them with bigots who refuse to empathise with others. The people that I’ve met/known (and they’re less than five, so this is anecdata and a half) who are neurologically unable to empathise still managed to by empathetic in actions by mimicing others and having a strong ethical stance in how they treat others.
MRAs and other bigots are fully able to empathise, they just choose to other large swaths of people and see no reason to empathise with them.
Happy birthday Fibinachi!!! I still can’t get over a lot of manboobzers’ youth vs how much more mature they are than me 😛
and now, hi ho, hi ho, it’s off to work I go 🙁
Happy Birthday, Fibinachi. Go eat mountains of cake. And ice cream, if you’d like it.
The idea that bigotry is the same thing as an inbuilt lack of empathy is really sketchy because, even if you ignore the implications about some non-neurotypical people, you’re still left unable to explain things like fascism, where entire societies display no compassion or empathy towards a particular targeted group. Societies can be very effective at teaching people that they aren’t supposed to feel empathy for people who’re outside their in-group.
Damn Fibinachi. It’s your birthday; you aren’t supposed to be giving US presents.
Well said, and Happy Birthday. Torment us with cake descriptions, please. 🙂
At some risk to my own sanity, I’m going to ask for a point-of-reference: what was the exact problem with Colonial Marines? I am not more than a dabbler in computer games, so I don’t know what the context is for the kill-shot.
QFT
A good activity for ANY day!
And happy birthday, Fibi!
@freemage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines#Critical_reception
This.
The whole problem with misogyny is that men, as a group, are perfectly okay with women not being paid as much for the same work, being stuck with the housework, the childcare, etc. Why? Because men are your in-group, women are out-group, and so anything that advantages your group must be fine.
The way the MRM thinks about women and has no empathy for them is built from that societal groundwork.
Ignoring this and saying ‘there must be something wrong with their brains’ is not only damaging to those of us who do have something wrong with our brains, but it also lets society off the hook altogether.
And, um, society? We may not be able to change MRAs, but society is made up people, adn they DO change their minds.
balleyreneee: Shouldn’t they be thanking us evil feminists for showing everyone how awful marriage is?
No. Because it’s feminism (and that pesky “women are people” idea they worked so hard to make an actual legal fact) which made spoiled marriage.
So it’s all our fault, no matter what.
MATFTM: What do you think David, are you just against misogyny, or do you blog against misandry too? Maybe you should do a post on this.
Start your own blog.
(and I’m confused: Spiderman is real? Or are you alleging a real murder was drafted into the story to make a point about “evil men”? Are you seriously trying to argue SUPERHERO COMICS ARE A FEMINIST PLOT??)
OT: our pal Vox Day was voted off the Sci-fi and Fantasy Writers of America island yesterday, after his unsuccessful bid for president. For those who haven’t been following the story: those of us who’d already encountered Vox Day were unsurprised a couple of months ago when he responded to fellow SFWA member N K Jemesin’s call for diversity and inclusion in Sci-Fi with a string of racism and threats (some of them on the SFWA’s official Twitter feed). Several prominent writers circulated a petition to have him removed, and it appears the board finally caved.
If you don’t know who Vox Day is, you’re in luck: you can see some of his greatest hits without having to actually visit his site.
Jemesin, as always, <a href="http://nkjemisin.com/2013/08/time-to-pick-a-side/"is fantastic.
Okay, thanks Howard. I’d read the wiki article, but sometimes that’s missing crucial intel. Basically, I wanted to know if fanficSark was shooting the guy motivated by feminism (ie, A:CM had been some sort of misogynistic stewpit, which many games unfortunately are) or by gamer rage at a generically shitty product. Given that it seems to have been the latter, it becomes even harder to credit newtroll with anything other than sheer malice in his portrayal of the post as ‘misandry’. Gamers wanting to commit fictional violence over companies that fail to deliver is, like, 95% of web culture.*
*: Statistics derived from reports made by the Dept. of Myass.
Emily: Your link got borked. I’m a helper!
http://nkjemisin.com/2013/08/time-to-pick-a-side/
Hey, happy birthday Fibinachi. We have the same one!
Racism and misogyny have everything in common–both racists and misogynists feel safe that there will never be a day when they wake up as a different race or a different sex–it’s bulling at it’s finest and least empathetic.
Happy birthday Fibinachi!
Happy birthdays to Fibinachi and grumpycatisagirl!
Did someone say something about cake?