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Red Pill Dudes: Marriage is worse than rape, but the feminist attack on marriage is even worser

Barley: The ultimate feminist weapon?
Barley: The ultimate feminist weapon?

So the uber-manly woman-hating woman-chasing alpha dogs over in the Red Pill subreddit are discussing the declining marriage rate. Which is a GOOD thing. Because marriage is for BETAs and FRUMPY WOMEN! It’s worse than RAPE!

Marriage is RAPE - so if marriage goes down, then it's a good thing.      permalink     source     give gold     save     hide child comments  [–]Max___Power 49 points 1 day ago (64|15)  No, it's worse. Marriage is institutionally promoted to men as a positive. If I ever took a contract to my lawyer where the other party could opt out at any time AND take 50% of MY shit with them, he'd chase me out of his office and yell at me to find a hobby. Yet men willingly purchase $30,000 flawed rocks for the privilege of asking a frumpy woman to sign such a contract. LO freaking L, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Huh. If any of these Red Pill dudes were to get married I’m pretty sure it would be be a completely, you know, consensual act on their part. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t rape a, you know, nonconsensual thing? (Reading the Red Pill subreddit, it’s sometimes hard to remember.)

At this point a fellow calling himself TheZimmerMan throws in his two cents on the subject. Like his fellow Red Pill alpha dudes, he’s no fan of marriage. But then he  remembers that feminists are supposedly plotting to take down western civilization by destroying marriage.  And feminists are bad, right? And so his brain sort of explodes, producing this wondrous bit of red pill word salad, sprinkled liberally with racism as well as misogyny:

TheZimmerMan 11 points 22 hours ago (21|10)  Society pressures men and women are fed that they need it since they are old enough to Disney. It is good that men are not allowing themselves to be victimized in this fashion, but remember that the dissolvation of the nuclear family was a feminist goal from day one. They want every one to be forced into a martiarchical structure by removing the father figure just like socially engineered anti-intellectualism and thug culture has influenced black families nationwide. They want everyone to be on welfare barley subsiding as the actual working men shoulder the burden by paying lifetime alimony, crippling child support, excessive taxes for entitlements, and other state enforced wealth transfers while being denied traditional provider respect and benefits. This is a mere segment of their war against everything it means to be a man as they seek social enslavement, state enforced burdens, and general malice towards our kind.  Thank God for red pill wisdom of female biological imperatives and alphaism allowing men to still retain personal control over our lives, it is the only thing confronting this madness of the ultimate shit test against the human race.

Wow.  Just wow.

I’ve never seen “Disney” used as a verb before.

Also, I’m not exactly sure what “they want everyone to be on welfare barley subsiding” means. Unless the government has started up some sort of barley redistribution system I can only assume he meant “barely subsisting.”

I also like the complaint about how the “actual working man” pays for all these evil welfare moms while “being denied traditional provider respect and benefits.”

In misogynist-speak, that’s code for “how come we have to pay money for welfare when we don’t even get to fuck the welfare moms and boss them around?”

Red Pill dudes: please continue your marriage strike. Also consider: A vow of silence? Moving to a desert island? Living the rest of your life in a hole in the ground?

(Thanks to Gemma_Lou in the Blue Pill subreddit for pointing me to this wondrous Red Pill discussion.)

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Michael Søndberg Olsen

LBT, yes, I know. But are you sure it’s a conscious choice?

Michael Søndberg Olsen

Not that it’d really matter in the outcome.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: Michael

But are you sure it’s a conscious choice?

In some people, sure, but most, probably not. Though like you said, it doesn’t much change the outcome.

Michael Søndberg Olsen

Yeah… That’s the saddest part.

kittehserf
7 years ago

It always seems worse than “just” empathy fail with MRAs – so many of them seem to be actively malicious. Not so much indifference to other people’s reality, to other people’s pain; it seems to be a combination of, on the one hand, actively denying that women are people, that we have the same complex thoughts and feelings as men, and on the other hand, wanting to inflict as much pain and distress on women as they can.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

And how can any large scale group function with everyone lacking any sense of empathy? Narcissism I can grok, but societies endorsing it? How’s that work?

Michael — titanblue did beat me to empathy, but yes, it seems surprisingly difficult a concept for some people.

Pecunium — ca. 1980 *does some quick math* wouldn’t you have still been a bit young? Or that’s the point? I could never tell if “humans are horrible” was supposed to be the message there. “Funny” story, one you can add to my list of complaints about my mother’s church, when I was about that age they had a speaker come in and talk about how anti-Christian Bambi was because of the anti-gun message (I think that was it, I kinda may’ve run off to the bathroom in tears, I was probably, uh, about four years younger than you were in ’80)

pecunium
7 years ago

Ermn… it might have been a bit later, but I was about 9 when I read it. The Message in the book wasn’t “people are horrible” but that you can’t trust them to be the same everywhere/everywhen.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Kitteh — yeah but not just women, they do have a far worse view of men than feminists. Manginas and all that, and how rape is because the victim asked for it and he just couldn’t control himself. Bull-fucking-shit, plenty of people with penī (it’s Latin plural day apparently) are entirely capable of not raping, not matter how bad they want to engage in sexytimes. And feminists know this, and expect men to have self-control because they are capable of it, and MRAs seem to say men have no self-control and can all turn into rapists in the “right” situation.

They can’t empathize with other men either, not even other straight cis white men where their experiences can be similar enough that it should come perfectly naturally (not that cis straight white men are a monolith, but that whole “like me” // “not like me” thing…of course, I just implied that pecunium is more like Elam than like me and I’m just going to noptopus away from that one)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Yeah I’m of the “assume capable of horrible things until given reason to believe otherwise school” and that makes my short list on inexcusable things.

Mind, I haven’t watch it since, gods, younger than you were in ’80?

Am I making you feel old too, or just myself?

pecunium
7 years ago

Just yourself. We are talking about when I was young (that was, IIRC, the summer Alien came out. I was all, “I know how to kill that… hide out in one place, stand watch and burn it with the flamethrowers!”.

Same summer as Jaws, too, which I saw in in a downpour (even for S. Calif. it was raining hard).

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Maybe it’s that I’m on a bit of a nostalgia movie thing. DL’ing Stand by Me now and you’d have been…fuck, the same River Pheonix actually was? Ok now I’m curious, I should know that one.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Ok, just a touch older than him, I was having a “wait, the early 90s don’t add then” moment.

If you didn’t notice already, I’m having a weird night.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Jeez you kids, it would have been the late 60s or early 70s, more likely, when I saw Bambi. Saw Jaws in the mid-seventies, at high school, so it was probably out of the cinemas by then. ::bangs walking stick on floor::

“how anti-Christian Bambi was because of the anti-gun message”

Well of course, because JC is always on about how only gun-owners will enter the kingdom of Heaven, isn’t he? There’s hardly anything else in the Gospels.

Argenti – no argument that those fuckers essentially hate men, too (or at least, all men who don’t hate women) but their specifically violent hatred is directed at women; it’s women they want to abuse, specifically sexually abuse. That’s the level of hatred I was talking about.

SpleenyBaggage
SpleenyBaggage
7 years ago

This used to be my favourite soup recipe – so simple, and so tasty! I guess I’ll have to stop making it, now that they’re onto my Fiendish Welfare Barley Subsiding Plan and all. Poo.

http://smittenkitchen.com/blog/2008/10/beef-leek-and-barley-soup/

kittehserf
7 years ago

I want to know what’s making all this barley subside, and can it be raised again?

SpleenyBaggage
SpleenyBaggage
7 years ago

It’s probably all the feminism eroding our culture and thus creating moral sinkholes. Or something.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Kitteh — no argument there! My point was just that they utterly fail empathy, they aren’t “just” raving misogynists. (Just being relative here of course)

And speaking of pecunium as “jeez you kids”, my mother referred to you as a kid earlier, to which I went “uh, mom?” and got “he’s younger than me, and therefore a kid” (to her credit, she borrowed the cousin that’s about your age to go see some snoopy movie since she felt weird going as an adult, so seeing that age gap as you being a kid relative to her does make sense, though I was a bit “huh, what?”)

leocigale
leocigale
7 years ago

One thing that always baffles me is how utterly heartless these cretins are… I try, time and time again, to put myself in their shoes and understand where the lack of human decency comes from. I try to imagine growing up in a world where half of the population is decried as weak and less than human, pile privilege on top of that, and then add the fact that I am not judged in any way on gender, colour, or interests. Even then, I myself still feel empathetic no matter how many times I run the thought experiment. I sincerely wonder if certain people are simply born without empathy, and there’s nothing they can do about it.

I suppose I am meandering to a nature vs nurture argument, but I think it is important to find out. Are some people just incapable of understanding or feeling for others who are different from them? I don’t think culture helps, but nearly every society in history has systematically oppressed women/minorities… It’s frightening that I can’t seem to figure it out or even begin to understand the mindset.

baileyrenee
7 years ago

So the message summed up seems to be “marriage is declining and that’s good, but feminists would be happy about it so it’s bad, but is marriage is evil anyway so it’s good.”

Shouldn’t they be thanking us evil feminists for showing everyone how awful marriage is?

@Tracy

#1 – Your ex is a bad person and he should feel bad

#2 – I’m celiac too. Brown rice maybe?

baileyrenee
7 years ago

@leocigale

I think for a lot of these guys have the same mentality as white nationalists. They had some bad experiences (or at the very least had what they perceived as bad experiences) and then found a whole community of people who told them that it was all a conspiracy by a certain group, that this group wants them to suffer, and is deserving of hate. Bitterness mixed with lies equals cruelty and stupidity.

baileyrenee
7 years ago

I think for a lot of these guys have the same mentality as white nationalists

Ignore that “for”

kittehserf
7 years ago

I just found a recent Oglaf (reasonably safe for work, though it uses some naughty words!) that could have been written for MRAs and MGTOW.

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
7 years ago

Part of my personal theory is that these guys see empathy as “girly” and they are very insecure about their masculinity.

I think also a lot of them honestly think women are monsters, presumably because of their upbringing. I’ve always been struck by their list of grievances – women don’t get long enough jail sentences, women get away with DV, women lie about rape, women do all kinds of horrible things and the media ignores it… I feel like the underlying theme is, “why doesn’t anyone else see how vicious women are?” The violent crime sentencing in particular seems very odd to me — most MRAs will start foaming at the mouth about Casey Anthony, but how are their lives going to get better by violent female criminals getting longer sentences? There’s something running deeper there.

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

Are some people just incapable of understanding or feeling for others who are different from them?

Having been married to a nasty man a looong time ago, (mrmagnificent and I are celebrating our 35th wedding anniversary this weekend), there’s more to it than that. I used to call it salesman’s empathy. He could, fairly accurately most of the time, pick up other people’s feelings and preferences. At which point he could identify how he could best them or take advantage of them in some way.

It’s not about whether they can understand other people, it’s what they intend to do with the understanding they have. It may be pretty good understanding, it may be mistaken, it may be completely inside out and upside down. Regardless of their competence in understanding, it’s the morality or lack of it in deciding whether you want to treat others as means to your own ends or as people deserving of recognition and acknowledgement as whole people in their own right. Not as bit players in the blockbuster Story of Me.

MisandryAintAThingFeministsToldMe
MisandryAintAThingFeministsToldMe
7 years ago

Check out this Anita Sarkeesian approved fanfic.

http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/58161053721/spider-man-recruits-the-help-of-anita-sarkeesian-to

In it, a real world, real life game developer is brutally gunned down.

Says Anita, “I kinda like it”

“She shot him once, twice, three times, the sound of the shots echoing in the grand hall of Gearbox Studios.

“Holy shit!” Anthony Burch said. He couldn’t stop typing.

“Anita…why, I said I wanted to change..” Randy said. He clutched at his open wounds. Blood was dripping in gouts from his gold gun throne.

“That’s for Aliens: Colonial Marines.” she said. Randy looked at her again, at first with anger, but then with a look of complete understanding, as though deep down he’d known that it was always going to end this way. He sighed one last time, and then died.”

I am not sure how to feel about this.

Can you girls help me understand why these expressions of hate against a man should be defended? I tend to see this story as hate speech and misandry, if such a thing were to exist.

What do you think David, are you just against misogyny, or do you blog against misandry too? Maybe you should do a post on this.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

YoullNeverGuess — the sentencing thing is about how not fair it is that men get longer sentences. Another instance of “racism, y’all never heard of it have you?” (Skin color matters far more than gender, and I can probably dig up the citation for that when it isn’t 3:30 am)

mildlymagnificent — first, happy anniversary! Second, so much yes on it mattering what you do with that info.

Michael Søndberg Olsen

Mildlymagnificent is so right that mildly seems wrong. It should be Wildly.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

In it, a real world, real life game developer is brutally gunned down.

Yeap, cos Spiderman is real. As are demonic game developers who spend their days on golden thrones forcing chained techies to write misogynistic games. Yep, that’s for real. That’s really really real. /sarcasm

Oh, and you know the other thing that is not real? Misandry. Not real. Like the demons. And Spiderman. All made up. Sorry to burst your bubble but there it is.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

you girls

Oh, and fuck off, you condescending asshat.

mildlymagnificent
7 years ago

you girls

Ha!

I suppose grandmotherly types like me might still qualify as girl – for certain values of “girl”.

Barbara
Barbara
7 years ago

I think the majority of MRA’s have unreasonable personalities, which was the reason they couldn’t attract or keep girlfriends or wives, and instead of taking any kind of realistic look at themselves, it it’s much easier to blame women for everything. If you try to point it out to them that maybe they need some work, they’ll bring up something that’s unrelated–it’s always “But look what SHE did”, like someone else’s faults automatically cancels theirs out. Someone needs to let them know that 2 wrongs don’t make a right, since they seem to get hung up on this simple fact over and over again. When I think of the men that I’ve known from my past that I can imagine being sympathetic to the MRM, they’re the fussy, tattle-tale types who resented being held responsible for their own actions–that type of guy.

I can’t think of any MRA’s that are reasonable people, and men who are reasonable don’t feel comfortable with the rhetoric of the MRM.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

TW: Murder, family annihilators

There is a new criminology article published (which got onto the BBC news site, hence me knowing about it)

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/hojo.12033/full

The authors propose 4 types of male family annihilator. Read the “self-righteous” and “disappointed” ones. Sound familiar?

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Trying to make up my mind whether Elam is being self-righteous or disappointed by the world …

Barbara
Barbara
7 years ago

You must have been reading my mind–I also think the worst of the MRA’s are criminal types—this is why they’re always complaining about women getting unfair advantage—because if they had unfair advantage, it would be perfectly fine. This is why they want to be able to get a woman pregnant and walk off like it’s no responsibility of theirs, why they want rape de-criminalized, and the whole ugly list of other things they want that always add up to getting away with something that’s inherently wrong.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

Yeap, cos Spiderman is real. As are demonic game developers who spend their days on golden thrones forcing chained techies to write misogynistic games. Yep, that’s for real. That’s really really real. /sarcasm

And they apparently missed the part in the beginning where the “real game developer” sent the utterly real Green Goblin to blow up the heroes (he missed and threw grenades into buildings instead, likely killing people inside).

When I watch these comic book and action movies, I’m the one who sits in the audience and feels bad for all the innocent bystanders who are getting their cars wrecked and likely getting injured or killed while the flashy car chase is going on.

Barbara
Barbara
7 years ago

Ah, the male family annihilator–it’s all about “I’m not happy, so NO ONE is going to be happy”. These guys are not givers.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

When I watch these comic book and action movies, I’m the one who sits in the audience and feels bad for all the innocent bystanders who are getting their cars wrecked and likely getting injured or killed while the flashy car chase is going on.

I was watching Con Air the other night (I know, guilty pleasure, ok?) & was going “Yes, shoot Nicholas Cage out of the sky, you have to. Cos otherwise all those people on the Las Vegas strip are going to die when the plane crashlands!” And yet the film narrative was that shooting Nicholas Cage’s plane was a “bad” thing & crashlanding in a built up area was just a-ok. How does that work?

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

I apologise to anyone who was planning on watching Con Air for the first time & has now had the ending spoilt for them. 🙁

kiki
kiki
7 years ago

Actually, Disney is a verb – or rather, the negative of one – if you have a Scottish accent.

As in, George Will, Brian May, Immanuel Kant, and Walt Disney.

(And Elijah Wood, if he could.)

kiki
kiki
7 years ago

I think Con Air is the only film of which I’ve ever thought, “This movie has too many explosions.”

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Can you girls help me understand why these expressions of hate against a man should be defended? I tend to see this story as hate speech and misandry, if such a thing were to exist.

I would have loved to help you understand the elements of this story and what can be understood as satire and how the inclusion of Spider-man with his strict no-kill rules contrasts with the real-world elements. I love a good literary deconstruction of fanfiction. (ask me about my current WIP!)

But, sadly, you specified that you wanted input from the women here, and not from manly men like myself.

Why do you hate men and their opinions so much?

Karalora
Karalora
7 years ago

So the message summed up seems to be “marriage is declining and that’s good, but feminists would be happy about it so it’s bad, but is marriage is evil anyway so it’s good.”

But the cursed frogurt toppings contain potassium benzoate!

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

I was watching Con Air the other night (I know, guilty pleasure, ok?) & was going “Yes, shoot Nicholas Cage out of the sky, you have to. Cos otherwise all those people on the Las Vegas strip are going to die when the plane crashlands!” And yet the film narrative was that shooting Nicholas Cage’s plane was a “bad” thing & crashlanding in a built up area was just a-ok. How does that work?

The two most recent Die Hards had several car chases in them, and the whole time I was *supposed* to be all excited about Bruce Willis’s cool maneuvers, I was too busy watching everyone else on the road and thinking, “These poor people are just driving to work and these assholes breeze by and destroy their lives.”

When you consider the third movie was about how terrible the terrorist was because his “fire sale” was going to kill a lot of average Americans, it made the car chase scenes pretty hypocritical. I get it, John McClane wasn’t *causing* the mayhem, however obviously the audience was supposed to be all excited by the flashy explodey car chase bits. I mean, he launches a fucking car into a fucking helicopter!

Anyway, weird tangent. Sorry!

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

Sorry, I lost count of my Die Hards. That would be the FOURTH movie in the franchise, the one that shows his daughter. The third movie was the one that featured Samuel L Jackson.

Shadow
Shadow
7 years ago

@Karalora

But the cursed frogurt toppings contain potassium benzoate!

That’s bad 🙁

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

But, sadly, you specified that you wanted input from the women here

He specified he wanted input from the female children here. And yeah, I’m echoing Titianblue in telling him to fuck off with that shit.

Seranvali
Seranvali
7 years ago

MisandryAintATthing said:

“Can you girls help me understand why these expressions of hate against a man should be defended? I tend to see this story as hate speech and misandry, if such a thing were to
exist.”

1. Don’t be silly.

2. It’s fiction, Spider-Man and his cohorts don’t actually exist. You do realize that, don’t you?

3. Why do we, as feminists, have to “defend” this?

If we started trying to police all the …odd.. things that fanficcers write we’d be here ’till doomsday. Trying to impose any particular ideology on them would be totally against the rules and about as pointless as trying to herd cats. The most you can expect are warnings but I don’t see any here. Someone should drop the author a note and tell her how much her story had upset MisandryAintAThing and suggest very nicely that a warning might be appropriate.

4. Personally, I don’t particularly like it because, in my opinion it’s badly written. Oh, and the lack of warnings. Last time I checked some fanficcers were still uncomfortable with fic involving real people but most don’t make a lot of fuss about it because of, you know, herding cats.

5. Please don’t refer to me as a girl. I haven’t been one for a very long time, and since I’m quite proud of my occasional wrinkle or grey hair, it’s not a compliment.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

“That’s for Aliens: Colonial Marines

vs

Can you girls help me understand why these expressions of hate against a man should be defended? I tend to see this story as hate speech and misandry, if such a thing were to exist.

What do you think David, are you just against misogyny, or do you blog against misandry too? Maybe you should do a post on this.

You haven’t actually played Aliens: Colonial Marines, have you?

Oh god, I just remembered that Aliens: Colonial Marines exist.

Oh god. The rage. The rage. Aaaaaaah.

[Goes to burn down an orphanage]
—-

There, an instructive example of humor. Everyone easily realizes I haven’t actually gone to burn down the orphanage, but the main point still stands. And Colonial Marines is still a thing. And… and… I’m going to curl up in a ball and weep with rage now.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Sorry, new troll who judging by his writing style may be a sock, but I don’t answer people who address me as a “girl”. It’s fairly obvious that I’m an adult so clearly they can’t be talking to me, right?

“Why do girls always do X?”

“Girls? I don’t see any girls at this table.”

cloudiah
7 years ago

Just want to make sure I’ve got this right.

The MRHM position:
* Rape jokes targeting female rape victims are totally cool FREEZE PEACH. (Rape jokes about raping men are, of course, misandry.)
* Rape and death threats against women daring to exist in public are simply a result of those women existing in public and should be understood to be both fine, and not coming from the MHRM.
* A clearly satirical piece of fanfic with multiple fantasy elements is MISANDRY because at the end a game developer is killed (but the fact that a bunch of people of indeterminate gender likely died because of his actions earlier is irrelevant).

Is that about right?

They were making fun of this over on r/againstmens rights yesterday:
http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/1kdfgc/anita_sarkeesian_reblogs_a_fanfic_written_about/

MRAs find the weirdest things to get upset about.