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Red Pill Dudes: Marriage is worse than rape, but the feminist attack on marriage is even worser

Barley: The ultimate feminist weapon?
Barley: The ultimate feminist weapon?

So the uber-manly woman-hating woman-chasing alpha dogs over in the Red Pill subreddit are discussing the declining marriage rate. Which is a GOOD thing. Because marriage is for BETAs and FRUMPY WOMEN! It’s worse than RAPE!

Marriage is RAPE - so if marriage goes down, then it's a good thing.      permalink     source     give gold     save     hide child comments  [–]Max___Power 49 points 1 day ago (64|15)  No, it's worse. Marriage is institutionally promoted to men as a positive. If I ever took a contract to my lawyer where the other party could opt out at any time AND take 50% of MY shit with them, he'd chase me out of his office and yell at me to find a hobby. Yet men willingly purchase $30,000 flawed rocks for the privilege of asking a frumpy woman to sign such a contract. LO freaking L, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Huh. If any of these Red Pill dudes were to get married I’m pretty sure it would be be a completely, you know, consensual act on their part. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t rape a, you know, nonconsensual thing? (Reading the Red Pill subreddit, it’s sometimes hard to remember.)

At this point a fellow calling himself TheZimmerMan throws in his two cents on the subject. Like his fellow Red Pill alpha dudes, he’s no fan of marriage. But then he  remembers that feminists are supposedly plotting to take down western civilization by destroying marriage.  And feminists are bad, right? And so his brain sort of explodes, producing this wondrous bit of red pill word salad, sprinkled liberally with racism as well as misogyny:

TheZimmerMan 11 points 22 hours ago (21|10)  Society pressures men and women are fed that they need it since they are old enough to Disney. It is good that men are not allowing themselves to be victimized in this fashion, but remember that the dissolvation of the nuclear family was a feminist goal from day one. They want every one to be forced into a martiarchical structure by removing the father figure just like socially engineered anti-intellectualism and thug culture has influenced black families nationwide. They want everyone to be on welfare barley subsiding as the actual working men shoulder the burden by paying lifetime alimony, crippling child support, excessive taxes for entitlements, and other state enforced wealth transfers while being denied traditional provider respect and benefits. This is a mere segment of their war against everything it means to be a man as they seek social enslavement, state enforced burdens, and general malice towards our kind.  Thank God for red pill wisdom of female biological imperatives and alphaism allowing men to still retain personal control over our lives, it is the only thing confronting this madness of the ultimate shit test against the human race.

Wow.  Just wow.

I’ve never seen “Disney” used as a verb before.

Also, I’m not exactly sure what “they want everyone to be on welfare barley subsiding” means. Unless the government has started up some sort of barley redistribution system I can only assume he meant “barely subsisting.”

I also like the complaint about how the “actual working man” pays for all these evil welfare moms while “being denied traditional provider respect and benefits.”

In misogynist-speak, that’s code for “how come we have to pay money for welfare when we don’t even get to fuck the welfare moms and boss them around?”

Red Pill dudes: please continue your marriage strike. Also consider: A vow of silence? Moving to a desert island? Living the rest of your life in a hole in the ground?

(Thanks to Gemma_Lou in the Blue Pill subreddit for pointing me to this wondrous Red Pill discussion.)

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guffaw-ferrets
guffaw-ferrets
8 years ago

I never knew feminists *wanted* me to be on welfare! Mind, the only other option for me right now would be “literal starvation and homelessness” in the Howard Bann1ster sense of ‘literal’, so I do actually *want* to be on welfare and anyone who disagrees can kiss both my hairy dimpled buttcheeks (jk, my butt cheeks aren’t actually hairy, at least moreso than anyone else’s).

Here I’d thought a lot of feminists across the many and multiple grains of feminism (grains! barley! I digress again) were kind of clueless and class-privileged^? Must be that my connection to the Hive Mind is shorting out.

^ Unlike when antifeminists point this out, I point it out not to discredit feminism, but simply because it’s true. Just like “many feminists still have race issues” is true. Because, you know, we don’t live in a post-race, post-class world any more than we live in a post-feminist world and, as human beings (yes! yes we are!) feminists absorb wider cultural messages that aren’t magically expunged as soon as we take up the mantle of feminism. Here’s a big fat Ha Ha Fuck You to all the morons who say “feminists think all women, including other feminists, are perfect and blameless in every way!”

guffaw-ferrets
guffaw-ferrets
8 years ago

Also wouldn’t it be hilarious if one of the ZimmerMen was actually the real George Zimmerman, hiding behind the assumption that it couldn’t possibly be him, and he was caught in the act of being a disgusting racist? It would seem only fair, given that he wasn’t caught in his biggest act of disgusting racism, ie the act of profiling, stalking, and killing Trayvon Martin.

It would make awesome evidence if his case ever does go before a federal grand jury.

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

Civilization has Gorean roots? Oh dear.

And oh dear to everything else too. What is it these dudes have about chairs?

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Okay, as abysmal and pathetic as that screed was, can I take a moment to say I actually kind of like “to Disney” as a verb? Maybe it’s just because my wife used to work at Disneyland, and her best friend/man of honor still does, but it appeals to me.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

And yes, Vox Day getting the boot is a lovely, lovely thing.

Falconer
8 years ago

first, that civilization needs to return to its Gorean roots.

LOLwut

Karalora
Karalora
8 years ago

civilization needs to return to its Gorean roots.

Someone needs to tell these guys that the thing with cavemen hitting cavewomen over the head with clubs and dragging them off only happens in cartoons.

Barbara
Barbara
8 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri–

Barbara — if this comes off as angry, it’s that I’m particularly touchy in the matter currently, sop lease take this as a reasoned argument, not an attack.

But they aren’t mentally ill. Or rather, if they are, which, statistically, some of them are, it isn’t relevant to them being hateful bigots. Plenty of mentally I’ll people, such as myself and more than a few other people here, see the MRM as the assholes they are. And plenty of mentally healthy people don’t.

I really am sorry–I should have put it some other way–like emotionally healthy.

Barbara
Barbara
8 years ago

@guffaw-ferrets |

Here’s a big fat Ha Ha Fuck You to all the morons who say “feminists think all women, including other feminists, are perfect and blameless in every way!”

They can’t help projecting their own inability to see any men as blame-worthy.

Does anyone know what the current idea is in the MRA community on men raping other men in the military? Do they think the men who say they’ve been raped by other men are just making it up?

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

I’m a bit confused… I’m a woman married to a man. Does that mean I rape him? Or does he rape me too? Do we rape each other? How does it work in gay marriages? Help me out here!

Also: We only have plain wedding rings. We had to give up on our engagement rings because they were of too poor quality and were breaking into pieces. We got engaged at a rock festival and bought the rings there, fake silver rings that looked like spiders encircling the finger, but yeah, not the best quality.

drst
drst
8 years ago

@Barbara – I would steer clear of using the word “healthy” like this no matter what descriptor you’re going to associate with it. Health isn’t a virtue, illness isn’t a moral failing. Plenty of people have illnesses (physical, mental or both) without losing all basic decency. Generalizing “people who believe this must be unhealthy” implies being unhealthy makes a person less than fully human. Hence the objection.

Lili Fugit
Lili Fugit
8 years ago

I thought “Gorean roots” was a reference to some faction of half-assed environmentalism, but upon reading it in context– MY BAD!

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Morally fucked up is my usual descriptor here, it’s accurate and to the point.

“Does anyone know what the current idea is in the MRA community on men raping other men in the military? Do they think the men who say they’ve been raped by other men are just making it up?”

The “I’m not an MRA” troll I was rereading last night thought that was the only way male on male rape could occur…no wait, even he said prison rape.

NWO blamed Teh Gay since a man “having sex with” another man was inherently gay, thus all men who rape men are gay. But Owly, Spanish and Russian share an alphabet, super dogs…he’s a strange strange man.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Oh and thank you. Your second try has similar issues, but you are trying, and that’s more important to me, personally — mistakes, careless comments, they happen, refusing to learn from them is my big pet peev (besides my psych, which is why I prefixed it as I did)

kittehserf
8 years ago

My engagement ring cost $10 and my wedding ring $12. Where’s the other $29978 worth of rocks I should have had???

@katz
How many tigers would that buy?

One, with a year’s supply of Tiger Kibble.

I totally want to use millet as a verb now.

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
8 years ago

MRAs believe that man/man rape in the military doesn’t get enough attention because all the lady militaries crying rape, and this is why women don’t belong in the military. Women keep trying to hog all the rape attention.

leftwingfox
8 years ago

first, that civilization needs to return to its Gorean roots.

LOLwut

North Gorean or South Gorean?

L
L
8 years ago

I loooove when men flounce around talking about how they won’t ever get married as if a) there is a long line of women who are eager to marry them and b) those women are missing out on some kind of great prize because Flouncy McFlounce flounced out of the marriage mart. I think the concept of MGTOW or whatever they call themselves is the universe’s way of ensuring that nasty trolls won’t procreate. Bless their misogynistic little hearts.

Barbara
Barbara
8 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri & @drst |

I see what you’re saying–I actually figured this out for myself while away from the computer before reading your posts.

@YoullNeverGuess

MRAs believe that man/man rape in the military doesn’t get enough attention because all the lady militaries crying rape, and this is why women don’t belong in the military. Women keep trying to hog all the rape attention.

I should have realized that women are always to blame for absolutely everything–but you notice they won’t focus on the fact that men WILL rape other men–I guess the male-on male rapists haven’t sufficiently understood that men should all now be on each other’s side–against women. They’ll have to get that important message out there.

Barbara
Barbara
8 years ago

@L

Yes, they like to trade stories of how they turned this woman down and that woman down–uh, right!

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

They’ve also told me that men are going to Asia because we Western Women are worth marrying anymore, and therefore it sucks to be us. Serves us right, losing the men.

No, it sucks for the Asian women who are also individual human beings and not some kind of anti-feminist dream.

grumpycatisagirl
8 years ago

Um, *aren’t* worth marrying anymore.

entropistanon
8 years ago

@grumpycatisagirl: Yeah, I sometimes wish I could be there when the dudebros get that revelation that Asian women are individuals too with their own wills, personalities, and viewpoints. I wonder how long it would take him to figure out that the ladies they’re dating aren’t demure stereotypes?

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

I find it interesting and very telling that Max Power’s first thing he uses to denigrate marriage is that it’s a contract where the other party can leave at any time.

Like, uh. Yeah. Why would you want to be married to someone who DIDN’T want to be married to you?

It’s weird, that a lot of assholes believe this. My rapist also felt that we couldn’t break up unless he personally agreed to it, because otherwise, it wasn’t fair. Obviously, that didn’t work out so well for him–it’s very hard to claim you’re in a relationship with someone who refuses to be anywhere near you.

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

I started compiling a list of things of which these dudes have no understanding:

Marriage
Rape
Empathy
Love
Contracts
Lawyers and how they behave
Engagement rings and their typical cost
Diamonds and the 4 Cs
Women
Fashion and style
Non binary gender
Divorce law
Grammar & spelling
Feminism
Race equality
Sociology
The welfare state ….

Nope, lost the will to continue.

Tracy
Tracy
8 years ago

Just curious – what is the age at which people are allowed to Disney? Can we also Nickelodeon at that age?

Also, I’m celiac so cannot subside on welfare barley. Can I apply for welfare buckwheat? Teff, perhaps? So many questions.

LBT I dated a guy who thought that way (and stalked me), which is why I dated him for 5 (long, awful) years. Not physically abusive, but emotionally manipulative and abusive, gaslighting, etc. If I brke up with him he’d break into my house when everyone was asleep and sneak into my bed, so I’d find him there when I got home; or, he’d hide in the living room and come at me; or millions of other things. I was so young, not emotionally strong, and easy to wear down. I finally got rid of him when he left the country.

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

Right, shorter list. Things these dudes do understand. Erm, bear with me a minute. Ok, they understand:

Talking. Loudly. While ignoring what anyone else is saying.

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

LBT, Tracy, sorry you had that done to you.

freemage
freemage
8 years ago

Titianblue: Your first list, while a good start, would really need to include ‘men’, too, at a bare minimum. I mean, I damn well know they wouldn’t understand me, or most of my male friends.

Tracy: I’m glad to hear you’re out of that situation, and sorry it happened in the first place.

pecunium
8 years ago

titianblue: I don’t think they understand it, just know how to do it.

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

Freemage: I’m embarrassed to have not included “men”. For once “what about the menz” is justified.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Tracy, that’s terrible! Glad he’s long gone.

pecunium
8 years ago

Here’s a boost to Marriage Equality: Servicemembers in Marriage Inequality States will get 10-days leave to get married

What that means is if they are stationed at Dugway (in Utah) and wish to marry, they get 10 days leave (implication is non-chargeable; i.e. free) to go to Calif/Mass/Vermont/New York, etc. to get married.

This is one of the things the military is good at: Command Authority allows for some solid driving of policy (think Truman and Segregation: though that was obstructed by the Navy until 1972).

Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

I read this and I think: here is yet another MRA who thinks able, adult white men are the only people who can truly own money or property. Anytime a MOC or a woman or a disabled person or a child has money, it is theft from a white dude somewhere, because everything belongs to them in the first place.

takshak
takshak
8 years ago

Right, shorter list. Things these dudes do understand.

There’s a good chance that some of them understand that the earth goes around the sun & not the other way around. But otherwise I got nothing

kittehserf
8 years ago

Like, uh. Yeah. Why would you want to be married to someone who DIDN’T want to be married to you?

Control. They are the abusers’ lobby after all.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Tracy

Bummer. Sorry your abuser was more competent than ours was. He couldn’t even keep a grip on a dissociative multi teenager for more than a year. I wish yours had been similarly pathetic.

Ally S
8 years ago

@titianblue

You forgot consent and sexual harassment.

misery
misery
8 years ago
Michael Søndberg Olsen

I’ve never understood the need to be a controlling jackass in a relationship. Why the fuck would you want to be with someone who doesn’t want you…. unless you’re a scary creep.or unhealthily obsessed.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

When I was a kid there was a teevee show on called Divorce Court where people had to prove their spouse was abusive or cheating in order for the court to allow them to divorce.
More than anything else I credit that teevee show for convincing people that divorce law had to be changed. It was horrific.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

I watched Fantasia with my kids today, so all of us are old enough to Disney. A few years back, my kid cried at the theater because The Princess and the Frog scared him, so he was not old enough to Disney at that time. Nobody is old enough for Bambi, though, because it’s too sad.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

thebionicmommy — I didn’t see all of Bambi for years, my mother quite rightly decided not to ruin the cute animals with the actual plot. Cuz yeah, that is not a happy sort of Disney’ing (hey MRAs, verging noun is not new, but to Disney?! That makes no sense!)

Tracy — your ex is a bad person who should feel bad.

“I started compiling a list of things of which these dudes have no understanding:”

Statistics
Math
Research methods and interpretation
Conditional clauses
Anything related to women’s beauty standards (closely related to fashion and style, but less personal choice-y)
Rape culture
Schrodinger’s Rapist (or cat for that matter)
Cats and other animals, but mostly cats

I was going to give up there, but I need to note one more…empathy

kittehserf
8 years ago

The Night on Bare Mountain sequence in Fantasia scared the bejezus out of me the first time I saw it, but in later years it was my favourite part. One Disneys differently with age.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Which was near the top of your list, it bears repeating though, being Very Important to basic human decency 101

kittehserf
8 years ago

Things MRAs don’t understand?

Everything except how to ragefroth on a computer.

Michael Søndberg Olsen

*bows to Argenti* How is basic fuckin’ empathy so hard for so many? It breaks my fuckin’ brain.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

Enh, there’s a lot of reasons people turn off their empathy, or never have it turned on in the first place. Narcissism. Simplifies the world if you just see other people as obstacles to overcome, or plot elements in the great Legend of You. And also, some societies reward it. It’s reassuring to think that they aren’t REALLY deserving of such things, not like you, because then you can go about your life and never have to question your behavior.

pecunium
8 years ago

I read Bambi long before I saw the film (which I saw in a theater, ca. 1980). The book is great. The film is pretty damned accurate. Uncle Walt knew what he was doing.