So the regulars in the Men’s Rights subreddit are currently discussing one of the most important — if often overlooked — issues of our time, which is: How come nobody but us sees that the ladies aren’t oppressed any more? Or, as paranoiarodeo497, looking hopefully towards the future, has chosen to put the question: “What future event/tragedy do you think will happen that will make people realize not only are women no longer deprived but in fact equal to men?”
Alas, the Men’s Rightsers aren’t hopeful that anything will wake up the snoozing sheeple. BrambleEdge, for his part, worries that men will remain oppressed forever.
![BrambleEdge 17 points 15 hours ago (18|1) Seeing as men are deprived and far from equal to women, and people don't see it now, I doubt they ever will. I sometimes fear that gynocentrism is biological and not cultural. [–]Demonspawn [-1] 1 point 52 minutes ago (1|0) gynocentrism is biological Treating women as human beings and men as human doings? Yes, it is biological. It's also why "equality" isn't, and seeking it creates a system of female supremacy.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/bramble.png?resize=573%2C230&ssl=1)
Shrekem, meanwhile, turns to the work of eminent historian GirlWritesWhat for evidence that women were never oppressed in the first place:
![Shrekem 9 points 13 hours ago (12|3) The problem is that women were never oppressed or deprived, they just had different roles. Women are certainly not "equal" to men today, they receive special treatment and are immune to many laws that would get a man locked up for life. I recommend you watch Karen Straughan's video on "When female privilege backfires". permalink source save give gold hide child comments [–]villevillakulla -4 points 11 hours ago (4|8) I guess it depends on how you define oppressed or deprived, but it kind of sounds like you're full of shit, and "different roles" can be a blanket statement to mean anything you want it to mean. permalink source save parent give gold [–]Shrekem 5 points 8 hours ago (6|1) I would define oppression as "the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner" just like everybody else. I challenge you to come up with one example of women being oppressed in western society in the past few centuries. The treatment of women is nothing compared to real oppression like that of blacks during slavery.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/shrekem.png?resize=567%2C377&ssl=1)
IHaveALargePenis, in addition to being highly confident about his relative penis size, is also a bit more optimistic than his peers, suggesting that the irresponsibility of evil slutty single moms will eventually end up annoying not only single men but other women as well and thus, I guess, help to spark a new wave of antifeminism:
![IHaveALargePenis [+3] 5 points 12 hours ago (6|1) Government taxing bachelors to sponsor single moms/women in general. If shit keeps going the way it's going, everything women need will be provided by a government, while working less and claiming there's still a pay gap. It won't take a genius to put two and two together and realize that the benefits women get from the government, plus the benefits they get from working are huge compared to what men pay/get out of it. But that's not when things will change, not yet. What we're going to see is a rise of single, irresponsible moms who breed and have their lives paid for by taxpayers. And part of those taxpayers will be other women, who can't find men willing to "breed with them" or marry them, etc. These women will be working 40+ hours a week easy, will sacrifice greatly, miss their chance to have kids, and realize they're paying for all these irresponsible women to have their cake and eat it to (our society is pretty good at rewarding the irresponsible). That's when things will change.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ihavealarge.png?resize=580%2C276&ssl=1)
But Scoundrel, a more pessimistic sort, can’t imagine any scenario that would get the evil femmies to admit that men are oppressed:
Sorry, IHaveALargePenis, but you’ve been outvoted.
Meanwhile, loose-dendrite, off on a bit of a tangent, warns those who might otherwise be susceptible to feminist-think that seeing similar numbers of men and women in positions of power would not be a sign of gender equality — but rather a symptom of FEMALE TYRANNY!
Huh. I was unaware that high IQ was a prerequisite to power in our society. Did anyone tell George W. Bush?
In conclusion, MRAs have once against shown that they can use any and all evidence to “prove” what they already believe. Another flawless victory over the forces of reality.
Hope you like rice pudding!
http://youtu.be/IJ-zt-o2mIM?t=2m35s
Kinda long, sorry, the bit I want is ca. 2:35.
I completely agree. I’m tired of family members that “of course” I can’t get anything lower than an A and that I’m “too smart” to do badly.
Speaking of education: my father now has the leverage he needs to force me to go to UCSC this quarter; he found someone religious that he can make me stay with. And now he’s also okay with me commuting back and forth between San Jose and Santa Cruz.
So today he made me register for my courses, and before that I had a long argument with him over the phone. I told him that I wanted to have the freedom to take less than 12 credits because I want an easier start to my semester (I implied that it’s for the sake of practicality, but I didn’t tell him that the other reason is that I want to ease at least some of the stress I have). But he told me that because other kids are able to finish their BA/BS in less than 2 years, I should do everything as fast as possible as well. Eventually he told me to shut up and listen. After that he started accusing me of being just as “lethargic” as my older brother (who really isn’t as lethargic as he seems, IMO) and being influenced by my brother in bad ways, and I talked back to him. I got a veiled threat of violence in response because he wanted me to stop arguing with him and just do what he said.
Fortunately, my class schedule is very flexible, so that means I’ll be able to spend a lot of time close to campus and be away from all of my family members. Still, I feel awful. I almost feel like I’m doomed to have so little agency.
@Ally S: That’s terrible, I’m so sorry your dad has such high expectations of you and believes that he’s justified in making threats against you to get you to perform, not to mention drive wedges between you and your sibling.
I wanna say that it’s going to get better, but that sounds like an empty platitude when your dad is obviously determined to be the biggest authoritarian asshole ever.
Ally, you need to get away from him.
Fortunately, another good outcome of me having a flexible schedule is that I’ll be able to seek therapy more easily – UCSC’s student health program includes that. So at the very least I’ll be able to start my therapy sessions there.
On another note: he recently told me that he wants to marry me to someone as soon as I’m done with college. I wish I was joking.
@Ally
God that sounds like a horrible situation 🙁 All the internet hugs from me you want.
Oh god. That’s horrible. (I’m going to wear out that word.)
I’ve been needing to get away from him since the day I started living with him. I just feel so scared and cowardly – I can’t even go up in front of the family and nicely tell them that I don’t want to go to UCSC this year and that I want some time away. Every time the thought comes to mind I feel weak in my limbs and just want to ignore everything, if that makes any sense. I know that’s a horrible way to cope with stress, but that’s how I feel.
@Freemage:
“Almost all supernatural beliefs tend to be silly to someone who doesn’t share them
, because, well, they are. ”FTFY. Silly to you =/= silly.
Everything else on the topic, from everyone: awesome! LBT especially.
On the schooling topic: holy hell. 🙁
(Running late this morning and haven’t time to type in detail!)
@Nepenthe, if you read this: READ WHAT LBT SAID. Then read it again.
Ally — I’m voting your father and mine off the island, they can go annoy each other someplace else.
LBT — you mean this one?
http://youtu.be/aPWXOlCiEgg
I’m all for it!
Ally, I wish I could go up there and berate your dad for you. Let us know if there is anything that we can do to help. You are not cowardly or weak (I think you are an incredibly strong person!).
WHAT? You mean that I don’t get to be the arbiter of what shall be defined as universally silly and irrational? But unlike all those other people, MY beliefs are sober and rational! So when I say that your belief is silly, then that means IT ACTUALLY IS!
Ugh. The paragraph with the ‘silly’ comment was meant to make clear my personal opinion that silly beliefs are universal to the human condition, which most certainly includes myself and every other atheist, skeptic and rationalist out there.
It obviously failed to do so, and in that failure came across as the sort of thing I meant the post to warn against–unnecessarily mocking people for their beliefs. Mea culpa.
So to kittehserf, and everyone else, my sincerest and most heartfelt apology for my carelessness in wording. And kittehserf, thanks for calling me out on it.
That’s horrible, Ally. I hope you can get some freedom.
After reading all these posts I think I need to hug my family.
And…you just happened to accidentally use the phrase “supernatural beliefs,” which utterly coincidentally encompasses everyone but you and other atheists.
Make sure to look over your shoulder while wildly backpedaling.
Uh, Katz? That says silly, not supernatural.
katz: Um… Shit. I’m in a hole. I need to stop digging.
My apology. I understand my offense, and will attempt to refrain from repeating it, or similar ones. I will not continue to try to explain myself; I fucked up, and I am sorry.
I was quoting from Freemage’s earlier comment:
Which…kinda says both “religious beliefs” and “supernatural beliefs,” so claiming that was supposed to mean “beliefs everyone has, including atheists” is a pretty big reach.
Argenti: She meant my original post, which did, indeed, call “supernatural beliefs”, “silly”.
(Sorry, didn’t see your previous comment in time. And thanks, I appreciate the apology.)
No problem–ninjaing happens.
Sorry, I thought Katz meant the immediately preceding comment and thus went huh? My mistake.
freemage: for what it’s worth, I’d ascribe it to problematic (personally). I take it as a given that, to an outsider, my religious/spiritual beliefs might look silly.
I think a lot of other such are (the arcana of how kashrut works) are silly, when not looked at from the internal logic.
So that was how I took it (which I think is what you meant), but I know that’s a hard thing to express: which is why, even when that is the sentiment, it’s problematic.
Ally & Argenti, I want to send both of your fathers to Reddit Island.