If you ever need proof that Men’s Rights Activists live in a world of their own, check out this, er, argument, found in a posting on A Voice for Men UK, the official British franchise of the American hate site we know so well :
All women are homophobic.
Whether the men being prejudiced against are gay or not is kind of beside the point – after all, ‘homo’ = man, ‘phobia’ = fear, therefore: ‘homophobia’ = Fear of Man – but, if you want to quibble over Greek & Latin etymology, perhaps we can at least agree on this: all women, to a greater or lesser extent, display the ‘symptoms’ we attribute to said condition: overt caution, fear &/or disdain of men.
Yep, that’s right. In order to find an excuse to call women “homophobic,” they’ve invented an entirely new definition for the word not based in any way on the actual etymology of the word “homophobia” (which is of course derived from “homosexual”) but on something they’ve just made up.
By this logic, the word “homosexual” would not mean “of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex” but rather “man sexual.” If we take this to mean “attracted to men,” this would suggest that all straight women with sex drives would therefore be homosexual as well. Brilliant, A Voice for Men UK.
The author of the post then uses this weird logic to make excuses for actual homophobia among straight men:
Female ‘homophobia’ is so normalized in our society that treating every man you meet like ‘Schrödinger’s Rapist’ is considered an ordinary, common sense fact of life – just so long as you are a woman. But if a man feels at all uncomfortable around another man sexually, he is presently branded an evil bigot for behaving the way all women do at all times.
A Voice for Men: they reject your reality, and substitute nonsensical unreality that allows them to say bad things about women.
@baileyrenee editing isn’t allowed because allowing our manosphere trolls to spew their filth and have it stand is part of what we do here. It’s sucky when you just want to correct a comma or period, but there is a why.
@baileyrenee, Try emailing David again about the Forum if it’s been a while. Maybe your message got spammed.
As for the moderation, usually it’s because one of our “taboo” words is in the quote and/or URL you’re trying to include. Or who knows, WP has been so wonky lately.
“OTOH, some social justice folk don’t get it. I’ve seen some SJ people call asexuals homophobic.”
My eye twitch is getting a work out lately.
GWW’s thing, iirc, was that vaginas are supposed to be penetrated, whereas anuses aren’t, so wtf’s the big deal with vaginas getting raped when (cis male) anuses getting raped is unnatural!!11!!!
@cloudiah ah, okay. It’s probably the link then.
I’m trying to not re-write my whole comment, which will pop up eventually anyway, but just so you guys can see it now I found her actual quote and it’s: “It’s a vagina, it’s not who you are, ffs (for fuck’s sake?).” She then accuses someone who takes offense to that of saying that all women are just vaginas whose only worth is whether or not they’ve been raped.
Eh… not quite Karen.
Because when a woman gets raped, there is a rule rapists must follow to ONLY penetrate her vagina, duh!!!1!2!3!
Argenti, baileyrenee – I might have bloody known.
Does this idiot think it’s possible for women to rape men, or is that also “What’s the fuss about, it’s just your penis?” Can’t see that going down too well with the MRAs, apart from the “hur hur hur, wish it’d been me” variety.
PS I’m asking here because I am not following links to any MRM sites.
“It’s a vagina, it’s not who you are, ffs (for fuck’s sake?).”
That’s the sort of tripe you hear a conservative spewing to justify using women as an incubator. “It’s just a uterus. It’s not like that’s who you are. Why are you getting so defensive about other people having their way with your body? Sheesh! How sensitive can you get?”
Straughan can hide behind her “Libertarianism” all she likes. She doesn’t believe in a woman’s right to bodily autonomy, or if she does she is completely unaware of how to use language and should go back to writing her sentimental rag.
Not that any of these MRA twits could tell the difference. They all seem to have, at best, a flimsy understanding of language.
My body is my property. Even the densest propertarian shit stain should be able to see that rape is a violation of MY property.
“GWW’s thing, iirc, was that vaginas are supposed to be penetrated, whereas anuses aren’t, so wtf’s the big deal with vaginas getting raped when (cis male) anuses getting raped is unnatural!!11!!!”
So, was she implying that anal penetration is unnatural?
Funny, isn’t it, how they’re all squealy about property other than a woman’s own body. Look at all the tripe about spermjacking. And can you imagine the reaction if anyone told them, “It’s just your wallet/car/television/life savings. It’s not like it’s who you are.”
Straughan so often misrepresents facts or outright lies that I am not surprised at her inconsistency in ideology. She’s peddling her drivel to a willing, stupid audience and they are eating that shit up. She cares more about “making a buck” then she does about truly respecting the rights of the individual. I used to identify as a Libertarian and now that the term is so tainted with the association of liars, conspiracy theorists, and opportunistic predators that I won’t touch it.
*Please don’t take this aggressive language as any sort of attack on you, Kittehserf.*
sarahliz – don’t worry, I wouldn’t have thought that was directed at me even if you hadn’t said so! 🙂 I’m no Libertarian, no way, and “Straughan & co are creepy idiots” pretty much sums ’em up for me.
Money is meant to be spent after all. It’s just natural.
Seriously, fuck GWW; she’s an amoral fucking asshat.
Sorry. It’s been … a day.
Hugs, cloudiah.
I don’t know… Personally, I am uncomfortable with the ‘body as property’ analogy, not because I don’t think that a person’s body belongs to them, but because I don’t think the property rights structures are strong enough when it comes to protecting personal autonomy. I can’t remember which philosopher said it, but it’s fairly common for people to use existing power differentials and their own property rights to deny those of others, and as a proud SJer (we agreed we thought that meant social justice-er, right? ’cause I’m up for sperm jacking in theory, but in practice I am very picky about the stuff…) I am for abridging property rights in deference to human rights when necessary.
Your right to pollute, or to commit atrocity on your property, for example, is trumped by the human rights of people not to be poisoned or tortured, and I’m comfortable with the state having the power to enforce human rights over property rights. When bodily rights are conceived of as property rights, you get into tricky waters with procreation, as I remember reading about a case where a woman was forced to bear her husband’s child even though they were divorced and she was living in protective custody because he’d abused her so badly, based on what his lawyers construed as his property rights over his potential heir.
Granted, I think that case was from the 70s, but still. There are property rights, and those should be respected up to and unless they infringe on human rights, which, IMNSHO should be more carefully enforced.
cloudiah, I feel it. You have my sympathies. Vent if it helps?
LOL sorry if I derailed the thread btw…. I just can’t help but rant about GWW every time I have a chance too…
kittehserf, I don’t blame you. To sum it up for you, her view on rape is sort of a “don’t be scared or the terrorists win!” kind of attitude.
TW for rape culture bullshit, victim-blaming, depiction of rape, etc.
Here’s GWW defending herself for making that assertion: http://feministsaresexist.tumblr.com/post/19774052455/girlwriteswhat-my-path-to-recovery-from-sexual-assault
Ally that’s the same thing I linked to, just on a different site!
The very next line after the last quotation is “Not that behaving that way is a healthy way to be, of course: hating anyone – homosexuals, lesbians, heterosexuals, women or men simply because they are homosexuals, lesbians, heterosexuals, women or men, is a pretty woefully unenlightened way to go about one’s life.” Just think about that. You said they are are “[making] excuses for actual homophobia among straight men” even though they explicitly state that they do not condone any kind of hating towards people based on one trivial aspect. How classy of you. The whole “Women are homophobic” part is meant to be ironic: in that it is critiquing a quotation about a feminist’s reasoning for being against homophobia, is in itself being “homophobic” towards men because she is letting her feminist ideology taint her reasons.
Gah, just like that idiot troll the other day.
For me the body-as-property idea is useful only to compare how people who don’t think rape is important are likely to get very antsy about actual property crimes. That, or to say “It’s MY body, fuck off” to the controlling ideas. I don’t think of my body as property because it’s not a thing, it’s what frames me, it’s my physical self in this world, it’s alive, it feels (*&^%$# knees). All of which seems to be something MRAs don’t get, except when they’re salivating about causing women physical and emotional pain.
Thanks, guys. I’m having a delayed reaction to losing my friend. Also, survivor’s guilt is the suck. I’m okay, really, it was just a bad day. It’s just that friend was such a good person, and GWW is such a bad person. A few days ago I had a total rage/weepy breakdown, luckily with a good friend, and I was shouting “Fucking Dick Cheney is still fucking alive — FUCKING DICK CHENEY.” Which was so ridiculous that we both started laughing.
(But hey, we also raised over $1500 for a fund to support a program she helped to create, and got matching funds from another organization, even though we’re all still totally in shock — which proves that even when we’re prostrated by grief we are more effective at organizing something than MRAs. So there’s that.)
To be fair, the person who responded to her shouldn’t have been generalizing about the experiences of rape victims, but GWW is still a rape apologist without a doubt.
Also, that fucking Tumblr page is just…wow.
@ gillyrosebee
I can see how the right to bodily autonomy justified as a property right could be used against someone who is pregnant.
As for the elevation of human rights over property rights, I just wish that was always the case. Take the following example of elevating the sum of 150 dollars over the life of a human.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Jury-acquits-escort-shooter-4581027.php
Re: body as property
As an anarchist who rejects the very notion of property, I don’t think of bodily rights in terms of “self-ownership”, as some people say. I follow a Kantian view that basically predicates bodily rights on the notion of agency. So I basically say that rape is a violation of bodily autonomy rather than a violation of property rights.