Categories
narcissism open thread playing the victim rape culture trigger warning victim blaming

Open Thread for discussion of Ariel Castro statement, sentencing. TRIGGER WARNING for whole thread.

Some commenters here have started discussing the Ariel Castro sentencing — and the remarkable, delusional, self-pitying, victim-blaming statement he made before being sentenced — in the Minter Meltdown thread. Because so much of what he said — and so many of the issues raised — are potentially triggering, I thought it would be good to open up a separate thread for this.

Here’s a piece at the Daily Beast with some of the most astounding quotes from Castro’s statement today.

Consider this whole thread to have a TRIGGER WARNING on it for discussions of Castro’s rape apologias and victim blaming.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

189 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
kittehserf
7 years ago

The Planet of the Apes fanfic, I mean, not referring to Michelle’s comment re: Castro.

cloudiah
7 years ago

@Michelle, That got to me too. Just a reminder that this kind of thinking is still pretty widespread. 0_o

myeyestheyburn
myeyestheyburn
7 years ago

I love how much this thread has derailed and I love you all. In the non-creepy I’ve-never-even-met-you way. In more of a “you make me laugh even though the weather is shitty and my classes run into the evening” way.

anadiomene122
anadiomene122
7 years ago

Wow. Just. So someone had sex before, therefore it’s ok to chain them to a pole in a basement for years? QED!

moldybrehd
7 years ago

I just can’t think about Castro. So thanks all for the info on tigers, weed and for the vocaroo recording links.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Topiary tiger is the best!

tooimpurenangel
7 years ago

Ugh, I’m so glad that Castro is put away. I was so afraid he’d be let loose for some crap reason.

Now, I will celebrate with terrible fanfic. Have you read the Garfield ones by ComicsNix?

Ally S
7 years ago

Just googled Garfield ComicsNix and stumbled upon bestiality fanfic. Yikes. =S

leftwingfox
7 years ago

Oh! Bad fanfic favorite: Half-life 2 Full-Life Consequences! Animated in Gmod to match the quality of the writing.

(two more parts follow)

katz
7 years ago

It’s not brain bleach, exactly, but who wants to see bad people being funny and pathetic, instead of evil and scary?

tooimpurenangel
7 years ago

Oh crap, I should have warned about ComicsNix for like, everything. Sorry =(

kittehserf
7 years ago

Heh … and even with “fewer than ten” people turning up to their rally, they still got more people than the MRM does for its meetings.

scarlettpipstrelle
7 years ago

Here locally there was a flurry of MRA activist commenters when this story broke: http://www.denverpost.com/dnc/ci_23592884/longmont-police-testify-fathers-family-appeared-be-assisting, trolling the many articles that chronicled the progress of the hunt for the kidnapped boy and the aftermath. It’s almost like MRAs believe there is a special law of physics, that for every ghastly thing a man does, the woman must have done something equal or greater in ghastliness to provoke him. (no mention of this law when the woman does something ghastly).

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

So Castro kidnaps a 14 year old, a 16 year old and a 21 year old and they’ve ALL had multiple sexual partners before? I do NOT believe him.

And even if I did believe him, it makes no difference to what he did. In fact it makes it worse. Because it means, among other things, that he kidnapped and raped a 14 year old rape victim.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I think this whole revenge fantasy eye-for-an-eye thing is often tied in with a wish that the perpetrator realizes what it was like for his victims. But besides all the other reasons there are for not having state-sanctioned revenge, I don’t think this would work. I think 99 % of all perpetrators wouldn’t see the analogy. They’d be like “oh, it’s so horrible FOR ME to get raped like this” (if we’re talking about a rapist) without ever realizing that it was just as horrible and bad for their victims. They’d think it was two completely different things, because their victim deserved it or secretly wanted it or whatever, whereas for them it’s horrible.

Gunter
Gunter
7 years ago

The parallels between the MRM’s party line (everything’s all the fault of dirty sluts) and Castro’s behavior (everything’s all the fault of dirty sluts and maybe the fact that I looked at pr0ns) are creeping me right out. And the MRM isn’t even trying to distance itself from him! I often wonder if they can sink no lower, but, y’know…that question usually answers itself in short order.

This case is a perfect example of misogyny taken to its logical conclusion. This is what happens when a woman is viewed as nothing more than a hole for a dick. I am so sick of otherwise normal people acting as if we’re a post-discrimination society, and I’m especially sick of MRAs acting as if misandry is the REAL problem of the times. How many of these male MRAs would ever have to fear being made some reprehensible, inhuman prick’s sex slave/punching bag? I’ll warrant it’s not many. No, it’s misogyny that makes this shit possible.

/newbrant

Integral
Integral
7 years ago

@auggziliary,

I tried stevia but I just couldn’t stand the aftertaste. I’ve been trying to eat low carb and I’m uncomfortable with artificial sweeteners so I’ve been looking for an alternative. So far erythritol is the best option I’ve found, the only issues I have with it so far are that it’s very expensive and some versions are made from GMO corn. I decided to avoid xylitol because it can cause gastrointestinal issues and is extremely toxic to pets if they happen to get ahold of it.

I’d like to try monk fruit sometime but the only available sweetener I’ve found also contains sugar, stevia and malitol.

girlscientist
girlscientist
7 years ago

@titanblue: So Castro kidnaps a 14 year old, a 16 year old and a 21 year old and they’ve ALL had multiple sexual partners before? I do NOT believe him.

More likely, they told him they weren’t virgins because that was what he wanted to hear. It may very well be that he assuaged whatever conscience he has by rationalizing that, because they told him they weren’t virgins, then a) they were telling the truth, and b) what he was doing was okay.

Or maybe he imagined that they weren’t virgins and mistook that for fact.

Or maybe they really weren’t virgins – it happens. Their sexual history really has no bearing on what he did.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

@girlscientist

Their sexual history really has no bearing on what he did.

QFT.

I’m trying to call him out on a. probably lying about them and b. using blatent victim-blaming and double standards when he implies that, because they weren’t virgins, raping them was just fine.

I’m not doing it very well and am sorry for implying otherwise.

Falconer
7 years ago

Bad fanfic favorite: Half-life 2 Full-Life Consequences!

At least someone will get it next time I go I have to flame fast and keyboard too slow!

Sara Lin Wilde (@SaraLinWilde)

Anybody else find parts of what Castro had to say really, really reminiscent of uber-fundamentalist Christian purity crusaders? Like the sketchy virgin/whore dichotomy where, because these girls weren’t virgins, it’s not like he did them any harm? Or the idea that he’s as much a victim as anyone because he got involved with pornography and it made him deviant? I’ve noticed a strong tendency in purity movements to grossly inflate the seriousness of porn use as a sign of sexual deviance.

It kind of makes me wonder about the guy’s religious/spiritual influences over the course of his life.

girlscientist
girlscientist
7 years ago

@titianblue: I’m not doing it very well and am sorry for implying otherwise.

You said earlier:
And even if I did believe him, it makes no difference to what he did.

So you were doing perfectly okay and you don’t need to apologize at all. I was just agreeing with you, because it’s the kind of thing that, unfortunately, needs to be repeated as often as possible (also, I didn’t want to imply *myself* that the victims’ sexual history was at all relevant).

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The whole thing is ridiculous. Did he really expect people to go “oh, they weren’t virgins? that’s OK then about the kidnapping”?

girlscientist
girlscientist
7 years ago

@augzillary:I think people who passively hold the view of virgin women being more valuable will see this guy and maybe change their views. This guy is such an extreme example of victim blaming in rape culture that even most rape apologists can understand what feminists are talking about when we say “blaming the victim”.

I hope that that’s going to happen. Castro is such a textbook-case of victim-blaming that you can’t really engage in victim-blaming and not know whose side you’re on after reading his remarks. Let’s hope that this makes people sit up and realize the error of their victim-blaming ways.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for victim-blamers to see the error of their ways. I’ve never met a victim-blamer who admits that would zie’s doing is victim-blaming. Nobody who goes “Well, girls shouldn’t wear short skirts for their own safety’s sake, and I’m not saying this because I’m victim-blaming, merely because I’m concerned about girls’ safety” or “well, it wasn’t really rape-rape, that’s important to point out for the sake of all real rape victims out there” and so on ad nauseatum will recognize zirself as being on the same side as Castro. They’re just gonna be all “Castro’s a monster, while I’m a decent human being, meaning I can’t possibly have anything in common with him”.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

What Dvarg said times a million. Blamers gonna blame.

leftwingfox
7 years ago

I’ve never met a victim-blamer who admits that would zie’s doing is victim-blaming.

QFT.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

Is it inappropriate to use Castro as an example when someone is victim-blaming, though?

So next time someone says “zie went home with him, what did zie expect?”, a repsonse might be, sarcastically “Yeah. obviously. I mean just like Amanda Berry must have realised Castro was expecting to imprison her for years when she went home to meet his daughter” .

/honestly asking

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Hey, read this.

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/i-do-not-want-my-daughter-to-be-nice/?smid=pl-share

And see if you can avoid crying at the last line.

Happy, happy tears.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
7 years ago

In cases where a woman goes home with a man and he rapes her, I have never understood why she should have “known that was going to happen”.

Also, such attitudes suggest that “rape” is the default male state. I heard this same crap with the Steubenville case, where the victim was unconscious. “What did she expect? The guys did what any guy would do in that position.” ….and these are the same people who claim that it’s feminists who “hate” men.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

http://diannaeanderson.net/blog/2013/8/hugo-schwyzer-and-the-consumption-of-redemption

Here is a REALLY good break-down of all that’s wrong with the narrative of redemption around Hugo. Fucking. Schwyzer.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
7 years ago

Thanks, peoples who said I wasn’t an idiot on page 2 after someone said I was an idiot on page 1 while I was asleep. 🙂

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

She says he wrote a second goodbye post? Talk about failing to stick the flounce.

Amnesia
Amnesia
7 years ago

Dammit, I like my first name. Why do I have to share it with an unredeemable unrepentant repulsive shitstain on the face of humanity like Ariel Castro?

Ally S
7 years ago

She says he wrote a second goodbye post? Talk about failing to stick the flounce.

Very MGTOW-ish of him, I might say.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

“The comment of his that I hate the most, I think, is when he claims that he didn’t rape them, because THEY WEREN’T VIRGINS”

Castro can’t dictionary rape.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

About the whole “be nice” thing…

I must have grown up in some kind of feminist bubble. Not once have I felt the pressure to submit to unwanted sexual advances for fear that people would tell me I am “not nice”. If I felt threatened I knew I could always make a scene or “raise a fuss” and embarrass someone acting inappropriately. It made me feel safe.

I HAVE felt extreme pressure to not speak out against bigots because of creating ripples in the social pool. “Don’t hurt my feelings” is the unspoken argument so often used to silence people when they might say something others will find repugnant.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

This talk of consent here and ‘you should’ve known,’ actually made me think of something my husband did last night.

Now, my husband tends to be the hornier of the two of us, and is a bit dommey. Last night, as we’re settling in, he shows his interest in banging me like a gong. I am not against this idea, but I’m also groggy as hell after a few hours of comics roundtable gladhanding and writeathon excitement, so I say, “I’m sorry, I know I’ll just fall asleep during.” He says okay, we hug, and I’m out like a light in five minutes.

I realize that I can now take this for granted. I don’t have to worry I’ll wake up to something horrific. Anyone who would say that my husband was well within his right to just take advantage of me being tired or asleep is just an asshole I want nothing to do with.

With an attitude like that, I’m shocked they think anyone would get married at all, if it’s a “rape whenever” coupon.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Again, it doesn’t seem to occur to guys like this that if they choose to be sufficiently horrible women can in turn choose to just walk away (much more easily than the guys can if MGTOW are anything to go by).

MordsithJ
MordsithJ
7 years ago

Dammit, I like my first name. Why do I have to share it with an unredeemable unrepentant repulsive shitstain on the face of humanity like Ariel Castro?

And now I’ve suddenly figured out why I’ve had that System of a Down song stuck in my head for the past 24 hours. Which doesn’t help, but it does solve the mystery.

katz
7 years ago

Howard: Dianna E. Anderson is such a boss.

Falconer
7 years ago

Now, my husband tends to be the hornier of the two of us, and is a bit dommey. Last night, as we’re settling in, he shows his interest in banging me like a gong. I am not against this idea, but I’m also groggy as hell after a few hours of comics roundtable gladhanding and writeathon excitement, so I say, “I’m sorry, I know I’ll just fall asleep during.” He says okay, we hug, and I’m out like a light in five minutes.

At the risk of TMI, this is something that happens between me and Beloved often, especially after the Infantocalypse. Well, except for the hugging. Not only do I zonk out before Beloved most nights, she just cannot go to sleep cuddling.

Anyone who ever suggests to me that I shouldn’t take no for an answer should get used to never seeing me again.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Also, augh, arguing with a dude on tumblr who thinks boys drawing boobs is totally okay, but women drawing pretty guys hurts men.

THE YAOIPOCALYPSE IS UPON US!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I kind of want to see K-dramas hit the US just to see how massive of a tantrum guys like that will throw when they set eyes on Kim Hyun Joong (who looks like a bishonen manga come to life).

katz
7 years ago

Woo hoo new Feminist Frequency!

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Also, augh, arguing with a dude on tumblr who thinks boys drawing boobs is totally okay, but women drawing pretty guys hurts men.

…what…

…no…

BRB, got to go draw pretty boys for the rest of the day.

(no, I have to mow the lawn and watch Bubba Ho-Tep; very little time for drawing pretty boys… well, some things you MAKE time for, amirite?)

Ally S
7 years ago

Also, augh, arguing with a dude on tumblr who thinks boys drawing boobs is totally okay, but women drawing pretty guys hurts men.

WTF? What’s he even basing his argument on? Is he one of those dudes concerned about men being “emasculated” or something when drawn by women? >_>

Molly Moon
Molly Moon
7 years ago

I haven’t read the comments after Ally started talking about bad fan fic.

Anyone read HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?

Trigger warning for ridiculous violence starting from the first sentence.

My absolute favorite fan fiction.