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So what sorts of things make some men so furious that they feel the need to send women they’ve never met literal death and rape threats on the internet? It doesn’t take much, apparently. A woman suggesting that it’s not such a good idea to hit on women in elevators at 4 AM. A woman making videos suggesting that there’s sexism in video games. A woman captured on video telling some men to shut the fuck up. A woman complaining about sexist jokes at a tech conference.
Add to this: a woman campaigning successfully to have Jane Austen’s face put on the Bank of England’s ten pound notes.
Over the past week, writer and activist Caroline Criado-Perez, who organized the campaign to get Austen memorialized on the bank note, has been harassed relentlessly on Twitter by assholes and misogynists and trolls for her efforts. Some of this harassment has taken the form of literal rape and death threats. One 21-year-old Manchester man was arrested and questioned in connection with the threats.
Similar threats and harassment were directed at noted British classics professor Mary Beard and female Members of Parliament.
Here’s a sadly typical example of one of the threatening comments sent to Criado-Perez from an account that Twitter temporarily banned — then reinstated.
https://twitter.com/CCriadoPerez/status/362499703285358592
And a more graphic example:
https://twitter.com/ianmcqui/status/361587787511779328
And some even more graphic threats directed at female MPs.
https://twitter.com/JonathanHaynes/status/361967658087890945
https://twitter.com/JonathanHaynes/status/361964227516309504
For many more examples of messages sent to Criado-Perez and others, see Catalina Hernández’ blog I Will Not Put Up With This: here, here, here, here, here, here and here.
And if you had any doubt about how little in the way of repercussion most of these harassers expected to get for their threatening tweets, some tweeted using what are presumably their real names. Here are some comments from one Ivan Garcia of San Diego, as collected by Hernández.
And here is his blog, where this fan of jazz, video games and threatening rape shares his poetry with the world.
The harassment obviously raises a lot of issues,most notably: Why the fuck does this keep happening? And: What’s the best way to deal with this sort of harassment — and these sorts of harassers?
Twitter has promised to add a “report abuse” button; some activists see this as a step in the right direction, while others worry that the “report abuse” button will be itself abused to shut down critics of harassment. Twitter’s record in dealing with harassers has not exactly been a great one; just ask Anita Sarkeesian.
British journalists and assorted bloggers have been trying to sort through some of these issues over the past few days. Here are some links to some of the more interesting pieces, from a variety of perspectives. (Well, I’m not including the pro-rape threat perspective.) Links aren’t necessarily endorsements.
First, for a little more background, see:
Twitter under fire after bank note campaigner is target of rape threats
Caroline Criado-Perez Twitter abuse case leads to arrest
And here are some posts and pieces looking at the issues:
A ‘report abuse’ button on Twitter will create more problems than it solves, by Sharon O’Dea
A button will not, alone, rid Twitter (or the wider world) of mysogyny and abuse. These are complex issues that will take more than a button to resolve. But ‘report abuse’ buttons have been known to be widely abused on other networks. ….
Introduction of a similar mechanism on Twitter ironically creates a whole new means by which trolls can abuse those they disagree with. The report abuse button could be used to silence campaigners, like Criado-Perez, by taking advantage of the automatic blocking and account closure such a feature typically offers. In that way, it could end up putting greater power in the trolls’ hands.
Why does it always come back to rape? by Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett and Holly Baxter of the Vagenda Magazine, in the New Statesman
Rape is the popular choice when women become more visible than they apparently should be, and that’s because it’s easy. …. Whatever their opinion, however they conducted their arguments, however well-researched and nuanced their replies to criticism are, they’re women and male trolls could rape them and that’s what really matters. …
[Academic] Mary Beard got called a “dirty old slut” with a “disgusting vagina” just as [Member of Parliament] Stella Creasy was being tweeted “YOU BETTER WATCH YOUR BACK… I’M GONNA RAPE YOU AT 8PM AND PUT THE VIDEO ALL OVER THE INTERNET”. …
The message is that women’s vaginas are, literally, always up for grabs. If they’re young, the rape threats will come thick and fast; if they’re older, maybe the trolls will settle for insulting their vaginas and telling them that they were “sluts” in the past.
If Every Male Troll Took a Walk in Women’s Shoes, Would He Finally Feel Our Outrage? by Elizabeth Plank
Withstanding rape threats has become a right of passage for female writers or personalities, just as making them as become a right of passage for cowardly and anonymous misogynist trolls. If you’re a woman who happens to possess opinions, and write about feminist issues (god forbid!), chances are you will be violently trolled. … the issue is not that women receive more criticism than men, but rather that it comes in more violent and vitriolic forms. Men will be attacked for their opinion, whereas women will be threatened because they have opinions.
[O]ne study showed that female usernames in chat forums received 25 times more abuse than male ones. In an experiment conducted by the University of Maryland, researchers found that “Female usernames, on average, received 163 malicious private messages a day.” So all else equal, if you’re a woman online, you’re going to be on the receiving end of more hate.
I believe it. I get a lot of shit from misogynists for running this blog — and the occasional threat — but what I get is nothing compared to the harassment similarly controversial feminist bloggers who happen to be women have gotten.
What women-hating trolls really believe, by Emma Barnett
First troll up was Peter from Whitechapel. …
“She was asking for it,” he told me. According to this nitwit, if you campaign about issues such as keeping a woman on English banknotes, you should “expect to receive rape threats”. I delved further.
“If you put your head above the parapet, like she has, then you deserve this type of abuse. It’s what you get when you are a woman shouting about something,” Peter told me, starting to get a little irate. …
Then Gary from Birmingham decided to call in [and] told me in no uncertain terms that “feminists like Caroline were undermining what it is to be a man” and needed “sorting out”.
“Men are predators,” he explained calmly. “And this [rape threats] is what we do.”
And here, after all this awfulness, is a piece that manages to be funny about it all: How to use the internet without being a total loser.
And he goes on to generalize this for all distinct social groups.
I sure remember the last time I called myself trans* because I face trans*-misogyny! Not.
cloudiah: that is PRECIOUS.
We’ve won!!! I had no idea.
We all know feminists don’t care about the fact that a disproportionate number of people who have eating disorders are female. Yep.
Related to the original post. Not threats, and as far as I can tell not aimed directly at the woman in question, but still major online assholishness:
The trolls come out for Amanda Berry
For those who don’t remember the name, Amanda Berry, along with Georgina “Gina” DeJesus, and Michelle Knight were the three women who were held captive by a rapist in a house in Cleveland until early this year.
I just wanted to put this here before I go to bed, but have some inbuilt brain bleach.
RE: Ally
Yeah, that’s a winner. Eboo Patel actually deconstructs identity politics as I’ve experienced them in a much better, more thorough fashion. Unfortunately, it’d require me typing up pages, and I’m currently writing up writeathon prompts.
Ok, so I’ve just caught up on this thread.
First: gillyrosebee, so sorry that happened to you. That’s awful.
Second: Quark, I don’t think you’re a troll, and I understand why you might have felt people were being rude to you, and you had every right to say that you thought people were being rude to you. But someone disagreeing with you — even a bunch of someones disagreeing with you — on a comment thread is not harassment. It is disagreement. Even if they’re a bit jerky about it. Even if they tell you to “fuck off.”
I didn’t get a chance to read through this whole thread until after you had left for the evening, but had I gotten here sooner, I probably would have put you on temporary moderation. Why? Because you turned this thread into the Quark Show, making everything about you, you, you, and continuing to derail the discussion even after everyone else had moved on. You had made your point. You didn’t have to keep making it, even if you thought you were trying to show you “wouldn’t be bullied.”
I really think you need to step back and get some perspective on all this. I suggest you go back and reread gillyrosebee’s comments in this thread, which I hope will help in this regard.
You are welcome to keep posting on this blog, but I seriously suggest you give this thread a rest until you’re able to clear your head a bit.
Sorry, here’s the brain bleach:
http://thefrogman.me/post/56454668760/video-h-t-babyanimal-gifs
Trolls coming after a woman who was held captive for years? They should be ashamed, that’s just shitty.
Fuck it, I’m going to bed. See yas tomorrow!
@gillyrosebee – we tried tooth-brushing, but no go. Fribs gets too upset. Mind you, she only has about four-five teeth left now anyway. She’s had tooth trouble all her life; when we got her, her adult teeth were coming through but her baby teeth hadn’t come out, and were decaying. She lives on tinned food nowadays.
Smell-wise it could have been worse … her breath is bad but her farts are Concentrated Death.
Someone told me once they lived in a neighbourhood that was getting a lot of burglaries, and it was worked out that the burglars had put marks on the curb to indicate which houses had dogs and which didn’t. So the people who lived there either erased them or did marks for everyone and the burglaries all but stopped.
I don’t remember where or when I heard that, or if it’s true, but I like to think it’s true.
Though I remember with certainty another friend whose house had a lane at the side, so it was really easy to hop the fence, and they were burgled multiple times before they planted some bougainvillea along the fence. After that it was too much effort to break in and they didn’t get burgled again.
Bougainvillea is such a fantastic plant. Beautiful AND protective. 🙂
Quark: @ Hellkell, not specifically of rape threats, no, but I have received plenty of on-line abuse and even death threats! I think it is important to realise these threats are not “real”, because otherwise the trolls get what they want – people paralysed with terror into silence and inaction.
One copes, but it’s a nervous cope. I’ve gotten death threats, mailed to my work. I’ve gotten them in my inbox; from an IP less than 10 miles away.
Does it stop me? No. Does it raise my level of suspicion of people I don’t know in my general area, sure as shooting.
Does it make me question what I’m thinking of saying? Yes. There are times I wonder if it’s worth the grief. I don’t let my phone, or my camera, EXIF record geo-data. I don’t put accurate geodata on photos taken at my homes. I vary my routes to work.
I keep a wary eye on on my aspects of routine (vary the time I go for my coffee, leave by the back door, take differig routes home, etc.).
Is it needful? Probably not, but I remember the murder of Alan Berg
My point is that there is not a single documented case that I have ever heard of of someone being threatened with rape or death on the internet then “actually being raped or killed”.
So you’re ignorant. That’s a personal problem, one for you to fix. That you’ve not heard of it means jack shit. I’ll wager you’ve never heard of descanting syncopated jody-calls either. I assure they exist.
Have some clues.
Chinese couple had received internet death threats prior to murder
Or perhaps you’ve never heard of George Tiller?
@ titianblue – I’ve read dozens, if not hundreds, of threads on here. I’m entitled to an opinion as much as anyone else, and to call someone else out on their behaviour is not “trolling”.
Then you know that tone trolling isn’t gonna work. And you know that all it’s going to do with hellkell is get you more of the same. That’s stupid, it’s like you are looking for a fight, not a discussion; that you want an excuse to ignore the evidence you’re gonna get.
This thread is specifically about people getting attacked for expressing opinions, and what are you guys doing – attacking me for expressing an opinion.
Now who’s spouting bullshit?
This is thread about death threats and rape threats. Not about being sarcastic.
Get a grip. Learn to laugh at the laughable. Use your sense of humor.
@ titianblue – Jeez, this isn’t a school clique. Who cares if you “know” some commentor on a blog, that doesn’t automatically give their posts more or less weight than anyone else’s.
More bullshit.
1: You are saying people need to chill about rape/death threats. That’s nonsense.
2: hellkell has credibility, earned from past interactions: Even where she and other regulars have had differences of opinion (sometimes strong) she’s not crossed any of the local mores.
3: You are an unknown.
4: You are an unknown who is either disingenuous, or dishonest, as you claim to large experience, and pull this crap.
5: So what few points you may have been entitled to, as a new arrival, you pissed away.
so while we are working to stop it, it is important for victims to be able to feel safe and know realistically they aren’t in any increased danger
By telling them to not worry their little heads about it? That’s pretty crappy. Esp. because if the situation were different (say “those people” threatening an MP) there would be increased security for the MPs, so the message is, “rape threats against women are no big deal.” I’m sure that’s a comfort.
@ Tooimpure – no, you are not in danger unless they actually do something.
Don’t be an idiot. A soldier in a combat zone is in danger, even when no one is trying to kill them. Why? Because someone might be. Am I in danger right now? Probably not. The present threat level is low (been a bit more than a year since my last death threat). But if I were getting death threats, you’d better believe I’d be upping my defenses.
Why? Because when someone says s/he is planning to attack me, that’s a threat. A threat doesn’t mean something is false, it means a potential harm not yet realised.
And you know it: That’s why I’m saying in real life almost 0 of these trolls would ever dare make such threats, let alone carry them through.
All it takes is one.
If people express a genuine opinion it deserves the courtesy of being taken seriously.
That depends on what I think of the opinion. Recently a news outlet took the word of a PR dude, trolling for attention, about the attack on Nigella Lawson as if it were meritorious. I called them out on it. Apparently (from the tone of their tweets in reply) I hurt their feelings. Which is what I wanted to do, because the opinions they were giving credence were no more meritorious than yours. They deserve derision.
Fuck… I go to work and this gets 10 pages (not a surprise really, this is the sort of thing the misogynists wig out over: it’s a direct attack on their way of life).
Kittehs, I’m adding that keyboard mop up to your tab.
Kim, I like roses for the same reason. I have encouraged roses to grow around most of the house, and the hedge I planted is blackthorn. Beautiful, yes, but they will also rip you to pieces if you try climbing into the yard. Housemate has a black thumb, but appreciates pretties and lets me do almost whatever I want so long as I present it in terms of perimeter security!
@gillyrosebee – yay, I am living in Virtual Keyboard Mopping Debt Crisis!
GNL: I’ve got an earth shatteringly simple solution to twitter trolls. If you don’t like twitter’s anti-harrassment policies……DON’T USE TWITTER!!!!
Ah… let them win. Got it. If some men want to be assholes to 53 percent of twitter users, then those users ought to leave.
I’ve get a better idea. If they don’t like that women are on twitter, they can get the fuck out. They can NOT USE TWITTER.
Quark: Wow, there’s a lot of projection going on here. How on earth am I saying rape or rape culture is okay when I have repeatedly stated people who make such threats should be exposed and punished?
For what should they be punished? You’ve said they are to be ignored, because they are harmless.
That’s how you promote rape culture.
@fremage – I’m not saying anyone should or shouldn’t feel a certain way
Liar.
“So really, go fuck yourself Quark”.
This is getting seriously unpleasant and quite close to the kind of aggressive, horrible behaviour you rightly object to.
No, it’s not. If you fuck yourself, you chose to do it. See the difference? No one is saying they will force you, violate your person, remove your autonomy.
Asshole.
@ hellkell – Wow. You don’t see even the tiniest bit of rank hypocrisy in that statement?
Nope. She didn’t tell you you were going to be attacked, in person. She left the leaving (which is what she’d like) completely up to you.
No parallel at all.
Which you are aware of.
Someone comes here to state an opinion and has absolutely no desire to offend or upset anyone with it.
Oh… an intent is magic person.
It ain’t. You may not have intended to offend, but you did. Then you got all upset that we got offended, and shared our sense of offense with you.
Cry me a river.
@AK – that was a very eloquent and balanced post, and I entirely understand your point of view, as well as your criticism of mine.
Thank you, and thank you for not stooping to insults and swear words. I appreciate it.
OOoh… veiled, and indirect sarcasm; aimed passive-aggressively at others: Don’t you smell the rank hypocrisy in your own house?
Aargghh. Glad I missed this whole thread today. How depressing.
Quark: Incidentally, that applies to all the people who have been aggressive and unpleasant to me. Would they behave this way in real life or under their real names? Not a chance.
Bets? I’m posting under a nom-de-net of more than ten years; one that’s linked to my name, my face, and gives my general location.
I’ve been far more aggressive in responding to idiocy in person; setting them up by speaking truthfully in response to their rhetorical questions; in a public place; where there were witnesses uninvolved, and then pulling the rug out from under them. They looked ridiculous, and other people turned away to snicker into their coffees.
They left in short order, and I never saw them back again.
You aren’t being treated harshly by me. I’d say I’m being kinder than you deserve. I can change that, if you like.
Quark: Ak – you are not being “used”, you were being “thanked”. There is quite a difference. I genuinely did appreciate your politeness.
Sure. And Vegas is there so I can get rich at the tables.
Cloudiah – you say I have been “passive-aggressive”. Well, others have been “aggressive-aggressive” – is that better
Yes.
It’s honest, and being openly aggressive means people know where one stands. When you do things like thank someone for not being mean to you… the implication (with that, oh so comforting, plausible deniability) is that everyone else wasn’t being fair to you.
But one can’t be sure, right? It’s why being passive aggressive is such a stongly offensive thing; one can’t really respond to it because the response is, “I didn’t MEAN that, I’m sorry if you took it that way”.
It’s tool of the abuser, a minor form of gaslighting (i.e. telling someone they don’t know the workings of their own mind).
Which is, as you ought to know, from fifty threads (ergo, something close to 25,000 comments) isn’t something well received here.
Now to grab a shower. Have fun while I’m awa’. I’ll be back.
Reblogged this on auguries14.
Thinking back to the books – what’s the worst SF or fantasy you’ve ever read?
I’d have to put Canticle for Leibowitz high on the list.
For the worst I can remember, I think it might be Bradamant. The description of it sounded awesome – strong female protagonist, classic fantasy etc, but then the book was just blergh. There was another one I can’t remember the name of, but it was an audio book, and the man reading it could not do a female voice to save himself, it was so offputting.
1:
My real name is Fibinachi. Or, ever since that one night, you can also refer to me as Slip.
I imagine you are all as surprised as I was upon finding out that LBT is actually Blast Hardcheese.
2:
Actually, some acid just cause damage to the thing they’re poured over. Admittedly, improper safety protocols can mean it causes more damage to the storage vessel, but in most cases, this isn’t the case.
Example?
This thread.
3:
(From Genderneutral, on page 2)
And what happens when the billboards annoy me, or the grocery stores do things that bug me? Do I avoid those too? Until, eventually, I rest alone on some island without anyone else, sitting in the jungle? Like a certain Japanese soldier in a mythic urban legend about tenacity?
You’re wrong. Not because everyone should always tiptoe around everyone else, and speak only in bland, neutral phrases (Mr. Genderneutral). That’s also wrong. But because there are always someone out there who has lower standards than you. That’s a beautiful thing about the human species. But it’s not sacred, and you don’t get to designate grand areas of interaction as “Suck It Up Zones”. There is neither a right to offend nor a scared privilege of dick callers.
Don’t be a dick. Please.
Else you want a world wherein the main occupation is tolerating idiots.
4:
Gillyrosebee:
Awesome to hear about the startup! Good luck with that.
Much less awesome (or, awe inspiring in the original sense of dread and terror), to hear about that story. . So sorry that happened.
So I’m not the only one still up who’s going to have a long day tomorrow. Are we adding coffee to the itinerary? Cuz I have the French press all set to go while I feed the puffs. I can grab my other travel mug if you want to risk my super brew!
Anyways…
“Does it make me question what I’m thinking of saying? Yes.”
I know I’ve said this before, but I, for one, appreciate it. Assuming you’re talking about what I think you are that is.
Kitteh — beware if the dog is dumb enough to bark at bricks! My puffers are seriously smarter than my father’s dog. I give it a week before they learn when I’m pointing at something in the tank versus wiggling play fingers at them (they conditioned themselves to pipette = food in all of 5 minutes, so pipette = finger = food should be a breeze)
Quark — regarding “saying this in real life”…
1) this is real life, see how I’m addressing you? Do people address you in non-real life? (What would that be anyways?)
2) probably not, BECAUSE I have the death glare down to an art form. People generally realize that saying stupid shit to my dead pan “get lost” face isn’t going to go over well. Fail to buy a clue and yep, I may well tell you to fuck off.
Everyone — today in “my father is an asshole”, Zimmerman edition:
*On phone* What was he doing wearing a hoodie in 80° weather?
*walking by* raining
Use an umbrella!
They’re a pain sometimes
*keeps walking*
*other direction*
Something about how teenage n*****s see a keep out sign and just have to find out why
(pretty sure that’s teenagers in general) a few houses down from where he was staying, so not really
*keeps walking*
Pecunium — that little bullshit was while I was retrieving a container for your crassula cuttings btw. Still no signs of roots, but no signs of decay either so idk, never propagated jade type plants before! (And my tiny jade is all “4 leaves? More like 10!” btw, it thanks you for the tips)
Speaking of plants! Whomever it was who said that the treatment for transplant shock is lots of water, you saved that plant, and it thanks you.