Men’s Rights Redditors outraged by poster suggesting that men teach boys “about gender equality and healthy, equal relationships.”

No, you are right Cloudiah. I should have said they PRETEND to want celibacy.

leftwingfox:

I disagree. They want attention, and believe that they are so important and indispensable that women will do whatever the MGTOW want to bring them back. It’s the same with the objectivists “Going Galt”; they talk about it, but they never bother going through with it.

Sarah:

I do so enjoy the empty threat of Objectivists “going galt”. It’s like a child threatening to run away and never setting foot out of the yard.

God, ain’t that the truth!

It gets irritating listening to libertarians/objectivists say such, even though they may’ve never read Atlas Shrugged and got all their talking points from CATO Institute lackeys anyway (the place is essentially just the Koch Bros. propaganda center). Especially, after contradicting them in any way, they claim you are “brainwashed” by “statism”…as if being brainwashed by sociopathic businessmen whose avarice is partially responsible for destroying the economy and ruining the lives of many people is somehow better. If actually giving a shit about others over some company run by people who are already grotesquely wealthy makes me a “commie” – I’d rather be a “commie.”

MGTOW would be tolerable if they swore off women and moved on with their lives, but they obviously haven’t. They still devote a lot of their energy into vilifying anyone without a Y-chromosome. It’s like a crackhead swearing he’s going to kick the habit – only to then just become a dysfunctional drunk instead. It’s not exactly a monumental change.

@Ally, happy birthday! I left my first church right before my birthday; I broke up with my abusive ex right before my birthday. If it’s any consolation, for me at least, it makes a mediocre birthday even worse at the time, but in years past it kinda adds to the celebration. The timing makes it easy to celebrate your new year as a rebirth of sorts. Or at least that’s how I’ve chosen to see it. My birthday celebrations now are celebrations of me being reborn in a symbolic sense as well as being born in a literal one. I hope that doesn’t come off as glib or dismissive, because I do (somewhat) understand where you’re at…just wanted to illustrate another way of looking at it.

RE: Hugo Schwyzer: I have to say that I actually feel personally betrayed by him. When I first came across him, it was in the context of Christian feminism. I really loved his writing on the topic. From time to time, I still want to reference a few of his essays that I read when people ask me how I can reconcile my faith and my feminism (I refrain).

But I feel doubly betrayed as an abuse survivor. His justifications and lies do hurt. I am Christian; I believe anyone can be redeemed if they repent of their sins and try to do no further harm. Schwyzer has not tried to do no harm; if he had, he wouldn’t be promoting himself as a feminist blogger, at least not without lying about his past. A major tenet of every Christian denomination I have belonged to (including Mennonites, which I believe is what he identifies as…I was a Mennonite for 8 years, and am currently a related Anabaptist denomination) is confession; his editing of his past posts and attempted deflections is not confession. I believe in forgiveness, but Schwyzer has not repented, he has weaselled. Christians are called not to judge and to forgive, but we are also called to ostracize those who lie or use our name to commit fraud or deception. With that in mind, I have no qualms about calling out Schwyzer.

I have read all his apologies, all his weaselling, and it hurts me in both regards. He uses his professed Christianity as a way to reframe the conversation in terms of forgiveness; he uses his professed feminism and the “good” he has done to discount his past abuse. He basically takes two often-conflicting viewpoints and uses them both to excuse himself rather than to take responsibility. He should go fuck himself.

Three viewpoints, you missed the one about how he was “pre-sobriety” then. Otherwise spot on.

Er, if I could edit, I’d add: the only reason I’m leaving room for doubt is because I followed him a few years ago, and haven’t for several years. I would almost bet money that he (at least at the time) identified as Mennonite, but since it has been a few years and I’ve read a lot of bloggers I want to acknowledge the vagaries of memory. I’m almost certain he identifies (or identified at the time at least) as Mennonite.

Top that motherfuckers!

One of the cats in a Dave suit that you are is actually two ferrets in a cat suit, and I AM THOSE FERRETS.

I am also Pell, Amanda Marcotte, Kate Harding, and several Madame Alexander dolls in a MRAL suit.

I am EVERYONE. The Internet is merely me talking to myselves.

But I am LBT.

RE: Kittehserf

Of course you are. I’m everyone. *beatific smile*

I would like to add that if Mark and Kate can’t handle this so called “public” humiliation, they should try LOGGING OFF THE INTERNET, or maybe just stop visiting manosphere sites at the very least. Problem solved.

Well, I guess if their relationship is entirely based on the MRM then being drummed out of the MRM would destroy it? Wasn’t much of a relationship to start with, then. Shared political beliefs aren’t enough to sustain a marriage – some of us would consider them a necessary thing (I do), but they’re definitely not a sufficient thing.

Oh, Hugo is Christian with a capital C and cherries on the top and goes out of his way to make sure that everyone knows it. It was bad enough when he was constructing his own redemption narrative and waffling on about it, it got worse when it became obvious that he sees the feminists community mainly as an ideal audience for the drama that is his life and doesn’t quite understand why framing things that way isn’t very feminist.

Goddammit, does he have to claim every subculture that I’m a part of? Next he’s going to turn out to be a Game of Thrones fan.

@ katz

Shame you can’t excommunicate him, huh? From humanity, actually, that’s not a bad idea.

I believe he raises Chinchillas? I may be imagining this, but I seem to remember some odd posts about bunnies.