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antifeminism dozens of upvotes evil women gullibility imaginary oppression misogyny oppressed men paranoia parody precious bodily fluids reddit straw feminists TROOOLLLL!!

Men’s Rights Redditors fooled again by screenshot-bearing troll, paternity fraud edition

Feminists celebrating another successful case of paternity fraud.
Feminists celebrating paternity fraud.

The fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit are getting worked up over imaginary feminists again!

Yesterday, in a discussion of paternity fraud, a brand-new Redditor who had never posted a comment before posted a completely unsourced screenshot of what quite a few of the regulars took to be some sort of official feminist statement on paternity fraud.

ng67878

A few of the more discerning commenters suggested that the screenshot might just be satire, but others were convinced not only that it was real, but that it was the completely serious opinion of a representative feminist. As one put it, referring to the Reddit watchdogs in Shit Reddit Says,

BallsOfSorrow 28 points 7 hours ago (40|12)  This is the foundation of the hate group known as SRS. It's insane, but they're deadly serious.

Another chimed in with this:

ILoveHate 19 points 9 hours ago (21|2)  Feminism, we're all about the free shit "owed" to us now.
I took a few moments to Google some of the text in the screenshot to find out where it originated and discovered that it came from a now-defunct Tumblr blog called feminismrising.

While the blog is gone, it has left little traces of itself all over the internet, and from these traces it’s easy enough to figure out that it was a satirical/troll blog meant to parody feminism. My guess, for what it’s worth, is that that it was written by a feminist out to parody the absurd visions of evil feminism that are prevalent amongst Men’s Rightsers and other antifeminists. But who knows. The only thing that’s really clear is that it was a joke.

Proof? Well, here’s one “Q-and-A” that evidently once ran on the site:

Q: My boyfriend recently asked me if we could have sex. I tried to explain to him that asking me to have sex with him counts as sexual assault, but he couldn’t understand it that piv sex is ONLY okay if I am the one who asks for it. Can you help me try to explain why what he’s doing when he asks for sex is misogynistic?

A: It seems he doesn’t understand sexual harassment to such a degree for all intents and purposes is basically sexual assault.

This is normal; men in general don’t understand even the most basic tactful ways to approach women.

A rule of thumb is that if you can see him, hear him and feel him it’s most definitely sexual assault. Now does that mean that just because you can’t feel him it isn’t sexual assault? No. That’s just something rape culture says. Going by that line of reasoning it wouldn’t be sexual assault if you simply couldn’t feel him as you’d been administered some sort of anesthesia.

So through absurdity reduction we rule out that it’s necessary to feel him. If you can hear him, see him and you feel sexually assaulted then you have been sexually assaulted.

He’s being misogynistic for saying he doesn’t understand.

I think only a complete Men’s Rights dunderhead could fail to detect the satire here.

You can see more examples from the blog here.

Elsewhere in the same Men’s Rights subreddit discussion, helping MRAs live up to another unfortunate stereotype, this fella gets a few upvotes for his I’m-just-sayin’ semi-advocacy of vigilante justice — specifically, murdering judges:

pocketknifeMT 2 points 16 hours ago (4|3)  Well, in theory all that is needed to make it a better system is accountability. Since the legal system refuses to seriously tackle legal accountability, the shortfall can be made up by vigilante justice.  Its not ideal, but one was to kill a judge because they demonstrably fucked your life up, other judges would think twice about doing the same thing. Also, sadly, it would have to become a trend before you actually see any real movement of the needle.

Oh, Men’s Rights Redditors. You’re just awful, aren’t you?

 

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genderneutrallanguage
7 years ago

Poes law is a powerful thing.

ronanwills
ronanwills
7 years ago

I don’t think I’ve ever heard a real feminist refer to sperm as a man’s “seed” before.

Falconer
7 years ago

Those aren’t real feminists. Everyone knows they only go around in threes.

Also, the fiddler is clearly visible to them and they haven’t spermjacked him yet. Maybe that’ll come after all the dancing in the nudd, but real feminists would have done it right off.

jrockford
jrockford
7 years ago

Yeah, reading that, I got the sense that whoever wrote it and whoever believed it have never actually read any feminist writing, and don’t know how people actually talk.

drst
drst
7 years ago

I don’t think I’ve ever heard a real feminist refer to sperm as a man’s “seed” before.

I’ve never heard a woman use that word except to make a joke. Other than MRAs I’ve never heard a man use it seriously either.

(The erasure of the desire for sex, which is completely different from the desire to get pregnant, by MRAs, is kind of a dead giveaway.)

MaudeLL
7 years ago

Ninjaed by Ronanwills.

What is it with MRAs and the word ‘seed’?

Falconer
7 years ago

Brain bleach … I think. It might not work for anyone who can’t stand hearing songs sung wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/Ybvwh0reiMU

Falconer
7 years ago

Dang it.

inurashii
inurashii
7 years ago

GNL: *pat pat*

katz
7 years ago

All they need is the word “quicken” and it would be straight out of Game of Thrones.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Those aren’t real feminists. Everyone knows they only go around in threes.

Like poison ivy. Groups of three, leave them be.

These guys are such lolcows, they never fail to amuse (when they’re not being horrifying).

CriticalDragon1177 (@CriticalDragon1)

David Futrelle

You wrote,
——————————————————————————————————————–
I still think the feminismriswing blog must have been a feminist parodying MRA’s bizarre and paranoid visions of what feminism is.
——————————————————————————————————————–

If that’s the case they did a good enough job of looking like what an “MRA” would think a feminist blog would look like that they couldn’t tell it was a parody. I wonder just how ridiculous a fake feminist blog could be and still fool people like this?

Yellaine
Yellaine
7 years ago

genderneutrallanguage : that’s not poe’s law. I don’t know if it has a name, but it could be “the Onion”‘s law.
Poe’s law is when a group is so extreme is hard to distinguish real talk and parody. For example, Christian fundamentalists are often so extreme that parody can sound the same.
In this case, that’s just a matter of “this confirm all my worst fears about my enemy an make them look bad”. I mentioned the Onion because I remember a (fake, obviously) article on an “Abortionplex” to make “[stopping] tiny, beating hearts” more fun and efficient. Many pro lifers were quick to believe it. Just like these redditors. How easy it would have been to realize it was fake is the whole point of this article.

tl;dr: that’s not what poe’s law is.

Yellaine
Yellaine
7 years ago

CriticalDragon1177: I barely see how it could get much worse than “my boyfriend assaulted me by asking if I wanted to have sex”

chibigodzilla
7 years ago

@Yellaine: Poe’s law states: “Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won’t mistake for the real thing”
Which, I think covers this situation pretty well.

Or, are you saying feminismrising doesn’t count as a poe since it’s a parody of straw feminists, not a parody of actual feminism?

tooimpurenangel
7 years ago

Balls…of…sorrow? *snicker*

Also, I see “seed” used a lot in queebrotica.

Also, the comment bout judges? Is this one of those “moderate” MRA’s I keep hearing about?

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Also, the comment bout judges? Is this one of those “moderate” MRA’s I keep hearing about?

But they’re not a hate movement!!!!!1111!!!!!eleventy!!!!

Batbro
7 years ago

Their use of “seed” is in line with their obsession with men’s abortion rights, paternity, and evopsych. Genetics are the alpha and the omega, the all-important factor in everything. Genes determine whether or not a child is “yours” (if you raise a child you did not contribute genetic material to, you are a beta mangina). Genes dictate that a fetus is half-yours and therefore you should have a say in abortions, even though it’s not living off of your body and you don’t have to do jack shit to carry it to term. Genes are the difference between men and women (trans*? The fuck is that?) and the reason why men are stronger and more fit to be leaders.
“Seed” is just a natural extension of their obsession with genes. Their orgasm is an expulsion of their genetic material, in some ways, of themselves. That’s why they’re afraid of women “stealing” their sperm, they’re stealing their very IDENTITY. I have even seen MRAs disgusted by the idea of dating a woman who has ever gotten a facial, because she is permanently “marked” by another man’s seed.
To an MRA, genes, mostly semen, are their SOULS.

Batbro
7 years ago

The MRAs I’ve seen terrified of dating facialized women didn’t care if they washed off, or how many times. She was “marked” in their eyes. They were treating the woman as an possession to be claimed. Literal objectification.

And I’ve seen a lot of “pro-choice” MRAs just using it as a framing device to argue that they should be able to have “paper abortions” so they can opt out of parental responsibility, ignoring the fact that the abortion debate is about bodily autonomy, not parenthood. But of course, why should they care about bodily autonomy? It’s not their bodies. They don’t care about the women or the pregnancy, they care about the option of not being parents.

Malitia
Malitia
7 years ago

I like the wayback machine. http://web.archive.org/web/20120825024403/http://feminismrising.tumblr.com/ 😀 This blog didn’t live long.

MrFancyPants
MrFancyPants
7 years ago

I love how SRS is now a “hate group” just for reposting the shit that the dingbat MRAs post themselves, but somehow the MRM is not a hate group despite being called out by the SPLC as a bunch of misogynist asses. They truly live in a universe made out of whole cloth.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

@ auggziliary
Freud didn’t like loud piano playing. He doesn’t seem like he was a very fun fellow.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I’m glad the Wayback Machine captured it, at least partially. It makes it even clearer that it’s some kind of parody site, though I can’t really tell if it’s a feminist parodying MRA misconceptions of feminism, or an MRA parodying what zie thinks feminism is, or what.

Off topic, someone named Frank who said he loves Manboobz decided to leave a comment of disapproval on the Welcome Package post on my blog. I just find it amusing that he felt the need to let us know we were terrible people for offering people a welcome package that explains a lot of the funny history behind the stuff we chat about, rather than just not reading it or whatever. 😀

baileyrenee
7 years ago

Tried to read the comments on reddit, couldn’t do it! They ACTUALLY think this is serious, and someone even found the tumblr it came from. The stupid, it hurts.

Mongoose
Mongoose
7 years ago

I wonder, how do manboobzers deal with real life people who think MRAs have legitimate points and are really just the flip side of feminists? I try not to argue with people off the Internet about it, but it kind of feels odd to have friends who think this way. I’d point them to manboobz but the posts are long, and these people have reading comprehension issues. Kids today…

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
7 years ago

I think the reason for “seed” is simple. Notice how “seed” is considered a property of a man, rather than a woman: woman is the empty, neutral ground which is cultivated by the man for his purposes. Their debate over whether sperm is the equivalent of the womb says it all. From this perspective, the MRA fascination with controlling women and calling it equality makes perfect, awful sense.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

@Mongoose:

I try to reason with them one little piece at a time. But there does come a point where it’s ridiculous and I drop a Fuck You and peace out.

No, wait, that’s what I WISH I would do. Mostly I seethe and argue a lot.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

auggziliary

Also the abortion stuff is strange, nice anti choice people argue almost the same. If someone’s genes is a huge part of them and their rights, that would mean fertilized eggs have an identity and rights. But most MRAs are for abortion…

Not quite. MRAs are, most often, FOR men being allowed to have a say in whether or not a woman gets an abortion. Typically, if nothing else, they want the rule to be, “If she refuses to abort, I get to have a ‘paper abortion’–ie, walk away without paying child support.” But most of them ALSO support rules that require paternal notification, or even better, approval of an abortion.

Basically, as always, it’s “Women bad, men good, womenz no make decisions, that menz job.”

anadiomene122
anadiomene122
7 years ago

More “precious bodily fluids” paranoia and over-credulity from MRAs? Shocked.

baileyrenee
7 years ago

I wonder, how do manboobzers deal with real life people who think MRAs have legitimate points and are really just the flip side of feminists?

I think the MRM COULD be like that… but… yea.

It’s really depressing to think about actually. I would love to see more men talk about toxic male gender roles without turning it into a ridiculous and exaggerated feminist/female/mangina/liberal conspiracy. The way things are going I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon, if ever, though…

baileyrenee
7 years ago

Oh, and on the abortion thing: One MRA on YouTube (nobody with videos, just a dude in the comments) told me we should either ban child support and keep abortion, or keep child support and ban abortion.

AK
AK
7 years ago

Men don’t have their own “womb”(except trans* men, but I doubt MRAs care about that) because wombs are basically for carrying the fetus. Men don’t carry the fetus. They have no equivalent.

Wait, women have something men don’t have? Biology is misandry!

Lady Mondegreen
7 years ago

About the promotion of killing judges–

In Santa Cruz, about 15 years ago, a judge opened a package that had been mailed to him, and had his arms blown off.

I worked for the courts, and word was it was the ex of a woman he had represented in a divorce case, but there wasn’t enough evidence to arrest him.

So, funny as their obtuseness is, that comment scares me. These cowardly shits. Their money and their pride means more to some of them than human life. Aaaaagh.

Lady Mondegreen
7 years ago

Wait, women have something men don’t have? Biology is misandry!

Word!

I think they feel the same way about the women’s movement. Hadta have a male equivalent, because how dare women have something men don’t have?

Women are oppressed? We’ll show them! We’re MOAR oppressed!

girlofthegaps
girlofthegaps
7 years ago

OMG people, this is totally off-topic, but I just have to share. I came across a widget today called Jailbreak the Patriarchy, and it is absolutely hilarious when used in conjunction with sites like AVfM. It more-or-less reverses gendered nouns and pronouns in text, so you end up with stuff like:

At best, what I’ve heard from other men on this topic is often hypocritical, considering the decades we’ve had of masculists teaching men to hate and fear all women on the chance that some might be dangerous. Admonitions like “not all men are like that,” and “don’t let a few bad eggs spoil your opinion,” are empty when offered to female survivors of habitual or chronic abuse by men, or on men’s behalf.

At worst, there is a hurling of denial, accusation, and resentment, with complex versions of “how dare you withdraw respect,” “how dare you reject our judgement” and “how dare you deny our control,” all of which are nothing more than a demand that women not learn from experience. Most of these responses stem from a sense of ownership–an ownership which masculist advocacy seems to feel it is entitled to in the realm of relationships, social interaction between sexes, and most emphatically, over sexual interaction.

-From this page on AVfM

I can’t imagine I’m the first person here to have come across this delightful little thing, but I just couldn’t let there even be a chance that someone didn’t know about it. Really, this is completely making my day with the joy of Opposite Land MRAs.

(That said, Jailbreak the Patriarchy doesn’t actually make gross hatesites safe; nasty screeds by JtO are still nasty screeds by JtO, proceed with caution and a stiff drink, etc.)

cloudiah
7 years ago

No, wait, that’s what I WISH I would do. Mostly I seethe and argue a lot.

So true it made me laugh. The only one I know off the Internet is my cousin by marriage. He’s not really a MRA, just an old-fashioned sexist and big believer in gender determinism. I used to argue more with him, but now I follow a strategy of wry mockery.

sarahlizhousespouse
7 years ago

“It’s not ideal but one was force to kill a judge because they demonstrably fucked your life up, other judges would thick twice before doing the same thing. Also, sadly, it would have to become a trend before you actually see any real movement of the needle.”

MRA’s are sad that they might be “forced” to kill a public figure in order to force compliance among other public figures. It’s really not “ideal”. You know, sometimes you have to be the “bad guy” to get anything done.

They are most definitely NOT a hate group. See, they feel badly about murder.

cloudiah
7 years ago

In that same thread, the sad judge-killer also notes that, sadly, people might have “no recourse” but to kill both judges and their families.

And that comment has 10 upvotes!

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

I wonder, how do manboobzers deal with real life people who think MRAs have legitimate points and are really just the flip side of feminists? I try not to argue with people off the Internet about it, but it kind of feels odd to have friends who think this way. I’d point them to manboobz but the posts are long, and these people have reading comprehension issues. Kids today…

I get really confused. That’s par de course for most of my interactions with other human being in real space, but sometimes it gets really strange.

I remember a conversation about conscription once, which cropped up apropos nothing. I’m probably misrepresenting my friend, who is usually quite eloquent, but in my mind, the conversation went like this:

Fibi: “Yeah, but I guess we should make it apply to both men and women so long as we have conscription anyway”

“No, the average man is stronger than the average woman. They make worse soldiers, so we should keep it a male thing”

Fibi: “But the average person doesn’t matter. You get physical education and training, there’s… physical requirements. I don’t care about the people who can’t pass my standards, but if you can get through the hoop, you’re in”

“Yeah, but the average male is still stronger… So they’ll be better soldiers.”

Fibi: “But…. What if they can pass the standard requirements?”

“Well the requirements are pretty easy to pass. That doesn’t really mean anything. WHat’s important is how much use you’ll get out of them afterwards, and if you get women, they’re weaker, so you’ll only get 90% of what you’ll get out of a man”

Fibi: “But that doesn’t… How does… Why let women into anything then? If the posted requirements for the position isn’t the actually required requirements for the position, how will you ever let anyone do anything?”

“Besides, women shouldn’t fight in wars. It’s not chivalerous…”

Fibi: “But we have highly decorated female combat veterans right now.”

“Yeah, but if you’re activating conscription anyway, you’re in real trouble… So you need people who can really fight”

Fibi: {Chugs a bottle of vodka to deal, breaks front tooth on it}
——-

And then I get annoyed and carry a secret, malicious and spiteful grudge for a few days about the way some of my friends think, the weird… stuff that crops up in casual conversation sometimes. And I feel guilty, because they’re my friends and I shouldn’t get that weirdly illogical spike of surprise where my brain literally tells me that they’re being… silly.

I think that’s normal for two people sharing belief that is important to both of them, momentarily thinking the other is so sadly misguided. Or maybe I think that because it makes it easier to deal with feeling that the world is full of silly people. Defensive strategies.

ManBoobz helps me deal with that, in the form of these long winded incoherent posts of mine!

But all in all I’ve found that most people tend to react with mild surprise if you just repeat back what they actually say to them. Very few people consciously go around being terrible. But they just… often accept the saddest explanations that are repeated the most, and which allows some general little explanation to fit the bill (women can’t fight).

( “Besides, in my experiennce, women seldom say what they really want”
“… So you are constantly second-guessing your friends? Must be exhausting”
“No, Fibi, that’s not what I meant. I’m just used to women using a lot of double speak and saying “noooo” when they really mean “Yes!”
“Weird, maybe you should ask them to say what they mean”
“Yeah, I know, right, Fibi? And I do, and then they get all insulted when I tell them they’re being silly about their preferences. I don’t understand women at all, man”
“… So women who talk to you use a lot of doublespeak and subterfuge, because if they don’t, you mock their preferences and refuse to take them seriously?”
“That’s not what I… But… In my experience, they never say what they mean!”
“Small wonder, yeah. I don’t think I would either. Sounds like it’d be exhausting. Want some tea?” )

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Unexpected doses of awful from friends are just the worst. That’s a big part of why I like this place, too.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

I don’t really know anyone offline who’s an MRA, there are some garden-variety sexists though (I just ignore or mock them). I do have one male co-worker who’s pretty fucking cavalier about using the word rape to describe something unpleasant, which is working my last nerve. I want to tell him that no, having to do X is not equivalent to rape, shut up. It makes me too mad to say anything. Anyone have any pointers?

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

I’ve been fairly lucky. I’ve burned a lot of bridges, and I don’t have a lot of assholery to deal with anymore. If it comes up, I’m just less likely to talk to that person. I still have to make judgment calls on what I’m willing to deal with, and what I’m willing to not discuss–for instance, one of my friends is a dick about autism, and another is a dick about my college shit.

RE: hellkell

Sorry. That shit tends to make me to angry to argue too. Though now that I think of it, our best friend in high school in freshman year actually had a pretty good response! It’s been a long time, but I think she said something like, “You don’t know if someone here’s been raped. They probably wouldn’t like you making that comparison.”

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

LBT: that’s a great response. I’ll try it next time he runs his mouth.

BigMomma
BigMomma
7 years ago

@Fibi, I love that tactic. I have been so worn out over the years trying to provide counterarguments to just unthinking sexism and gender essentialism, that I just gave up when assholes would bait me about my feminism. I would just refuse to engage. But I LIKE turning their words back on them.

On the woman fighting issue, 20yrs ago I had a debate with a mate about women serving in the army. His point was that enough people were injured by war and we should protect women from it and let men take on the responsibility. It was utterly ridiculous.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I’ve met lots of bog-standard sexists, but I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who identified as an MRA. I think irl it would cause me to first stare in shock, then laugh, then tell all my friends to avoid that person. It would be like encountering a really rare but really ugly vulture or toad or something, so you’d be going “wow I actually saw one!”, and then you’d remember how ugly it was, possibly notice the smell, and/or remember not to touch it because its skin is toxic.

When I try to form a mental image of the older MRAs (bitter divorcee who wants to buy a mail order bride half his age edition) my brain keeps defaulting back to these guys.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Also the escaped gelfling is one of the younger name-brand feminists, like Valenti or Marcotte, and the skeksisMRAs intent to try to suck out her essence because it’s all that’s keeping them alive.

(Jim Henson was clearly a prophet.)

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