Leave it to the guys at Roosh V’s Return of Kings blog to find a bright side, of sorts, to a study reporting that one in five Americans suffered from some sort of mental illness in 2010, with more women (23%) amongst those affected than men (16.8%).
Since “at least a quarter of the women you run into at any given time are not going to be alright upstairs,” RoK contributor Athlone McGinn argues, and the percentage is likely to be much higher amongst younger women, you might as well use this fact to your advantage.
But first you need to accept the disadvantages. For one thing, you need to realize your powerful man-logic won’t work on these gals:
If you’re 18-25, you will in many cases be dealing with someone who is fundamentally incapable of being reliably rational.
Never mind that most mental illnesses don’t affect the ability to think rationally about most things. Someone with an intense phobia of Donald Trump’s hair, for example, is able to think rationally about everything except Donald Trump’s hair.
Maybe that’s a bad example. I’m not sure it’s entirely irrational to be afraid of Donald Trump’s hair.
And, like their sane counterparts, the crazy ladies may sometimes turn you down. But at least this time you don’t have to feel so bad about yourself.
You may think you’re a loser because you get shot down by these girls more than you’d like, but this isn’t always the case: you’re often dealing with not-entirely-alright girls with illogical criteria.
Oh, but McGinn assures us that “[t]his isn’t an excuse, mind you.” You still need to make sure your “game” is tight. Just don’t be too hard on yourself, because women (like the prices at Crazy Eddie’s electronics emporiums) are literally insane.
So what’s the great advantage of dating a woman who’s mentally ill? McGinn is a bit vague, probably deliberately, but essentially he suggests that men can keep “dysfunctional” women in line by treating them like shit:
Dysfunctional treatment is often welcomed by dysfunctional people, and many of those with mental issues fit that bill. Since we’ve already established that a very large number of young women fit into that category, you should not be surprised to see so many of them respond positively to dysfunctional behavior.
It is not uncommon for young men to adopt some of these dysfunctional behaviors, find increased sexual/romantic success with their female peers as a result, and then feel guilty about it all. Such guilt is understandable (they don’t like the fact that morally degraded versions of themselves are more appealing to girls in general than the men they actually prefer to be), but ultimately unnecessary—there is nothing a man can do about the female proclivity to welcome such behavior except adapt to it. It is the result of factors much bigger than him.
Poor pickup artists! They don’t want to be abusive, manipulative, exploitative assholes and terrible people generally. They’re driven to this awful behavior by forces beyond their control — like the fact that women are statistically somewhat more likely to suffer from mental illness than men.
@ Cloudia: Fuck Cancer. I hope that you’re able to find some comfort and peace, although I know it’s in short supply right now. Sending gentle hugs and blessings as you mourn what is undoubtedly an incredible person.
Argenti Aertheri: Way back in the day, when my ex husband and I were in marriage counseling, we discussed my abusive fathe and I commented that it “bummed me out” to think about him. All of the sudden, I was suffering from major depression and, if I didn’t voluntarily seek treatment, my husband should consider trying to get me forced into treatment. I told the counselor that she was being irresponsible, gave her the finger and left.
The point of this story is thst it’s very easy to look at normal human behavior through the lens of pathology and pigenhole someone as mentally ill, when they’re just being human (I firmly believe that its normal not to be 100% perfect, to be impulsive sometimes, to have some questions about who we are and where we fit into the world and that it’s all a part of the human experience.) It adds to why removing the stigma of mental illness is so important. It seems that a person is tagged for life because of it, even when they’re just a normal human being, with normal challenges in life.
RE: Argenti
Did I ever tell you about the time our mother tried to persuade our therapist we were schizophrenic? I praise entropy for that shrink every day, because she was like, “What? No.” If you’re determined enough, you can shoehorn just about ANYTHING into your diagnosis of choice.
(Not sure why our mother found schizophrenia better than multi… except actually I do.)
LBT — argh, and I can grok her fucked up logic.
Nova — just Argenti is fine. And yeah, like, no argument about being bipolar or the PTSD, none at all. But then forgetting that those cover the mood and extremely loose “paranoid” parts of BPD? ARGH! Insisting that non-monogamy and a fondness for hallucinogens is impulsive and reckless (I dare you to impulsively locate hallucinogens, other than at raves it isn’t possible)
I started to rant last night about how my refusal to pick boy or girl doesn’t mean I have an unstable self image, but got half way through that sentence before going…no, fuck this, even if it did mean I waiver between the two, genderfluid, it’s a thing, and if you’re calling it a personality disorder…I don’t have enough middle fingers.
Oh and as Minter so plainly demonstrated, impulsive recklessness is pretty much a hallmark of a manic state, so again, mood disorder. (If it were relevant, which it ins’t cuz bipolar II but yeah, it seems to amount to — bipolar + PTSD + genderqueer = BPD)
@cloudiah
Sorry about your friend. Hugs and condolences.
RE: Argenti
Ass. Once again, I feel very lucky that my encounters with the mental health system have been so benign. Probably helps that we’re skilled at passing for normal; our diagnosis list is incredibly short. We’d even avoided the DID diag until this year.
I agree with this pseudo study by the guy over @ ROK. I have my issues and qualms with many of their posters, but I can find these findings to be the case at least from what I’ve encountered over the years with dealing with women between 18-25. But being a bit nutty doesn’t mean you’ll be a bad lay 😉
@Argenti: I remembered reading that you dislike being called AA, but couldn’t remember if Argenti was cool. Thanks for letting me know 🙂
My mom was a psych back home and, for how rigid the system was there, she’s incredibly accepting by American standards. I mentioned the discussion here and we were talking about how easy it is to read mental illness into mundane things. She would never try to diagnose me with anything, but is a really great litmus test for whether I should seek help. I haven’t detailed my situation here with my ex SO, who I still have to live with but… it’s not very pleasant and, when I mentioned that I wss thinking about seeng a psych, she asked me why and explained that, given the situation, it was quite natural to feel sad, angry, upset, etc and the only reason I should seek help is if I feel like I can’t take care of myself or my responsibilities. In fact, if I didn’t have those feelings, she’d be worried. Very nice change from the “if you’re not happy 24/7, you need meds” philosophy.
In your situation… I really wish she was able to practice in the US, because because I think you’d love her. She has no idea that genderfluid or gendetqueer is a thing, but she understands that some people aren’t wired to conform to society’s standards of male and female. She also understands that not everyone can or wants to accept traditional monogamy. The world needs more psychs like her. Seriously.
Fuck off Kenny.
With that out of the way, the rest of you guys are the greatest. Hugs back.
Hugs all around! Except for Kenny, because I don’t hug people who bore me.
Kenny can fuck off some more.
At least he didn’t post a PUA vid and mangle Egyptian history this time?
Nova, your mom sounds like a great psych. And a great mom!
Kenny needs to take his 😉 ‘s and shove them up his butt.
Seriously Kenny? SERIOUSLY?! So you agree that using women’s mental illness against them to get laid is a good strategy?
Yeah fuck right the fuck off.
Nova — all that, plus the idea that seeing a psych inherently means something is wrong with you and not just that you need someone to talk to. Not that talk therapy seems to exist here, but you get my point, I hope. And your mother sounds awesome and yep, like the psychs the world needs more of.
RE: Argenti
If that’s so, I’m sure those men wouldn’t mind me using MY mental illness to become violent. I mean, I’m just adapting to my circumstances, eh?
Serrana: She was an incredible psych and took a whole lot of risks for her patients. As a mom, she is wonderful from a distance. While she would never try to meddle in my mental health, she will most definitely meddle in my personal life and take offense if I don’t do what she thinks I should. For a while, I regarded her as dead, due to some really incredibly shitty things she did. If someone can manage to max out my extremely high tolerance for bullshit, they’ve done something unforgivable. So, as I do with most people, I keep her at arms length and things work out well.
Ooh, Nova, yeah. When your parents overstep your boundaries, that’s not good.
@Argenti: There is also that aspect. I feel no shame in the fact that I sought help when my father died. I was very young, my father and I had a lot of unresolved issues and his death changed everything, from where I could afford to go to college to what country I lived in. No shame in that, but I also hesitate to mention it, as there’s such a horrible view of mental health treatment all over the world.
Right now, part of what has me thinking about a psych is the fact that I have nobody to talk to about what`s happening to me. I keep a journal but it’s not quite the same as having another human being who responds and has the ability to be impartial. And, in my situation, with the isolation, it’s very easy to succumb to the gaslighting and manipuation without someone to talk to. If I do see a psych for it, again, I will have no shame, but not really want to admit to it.
Social Kenny: PUA or POS?
Or both? It’s your choice.
“If that’s so, I’m sure those men wouldn’t mind me using MY mental illness to become violent. I mean, I’m just adapting to my circumstances, eh?”
You’re brilliant.
Nova — there shouldn’t be any shame in it, and anyone here tries it…surely you’ve seen how kindly we take to that shit. I have a gaslighting ex, and if my opinion is welcome, I thi you should get a psych if you can, though any truly impartial party should do (impartial because the gaslighter will probably try to paint things in zir favor)
QFT.
I’m constantly reminded here of how lucky I’ve been – or maybe how different the culture is – with my two psychologists. I can just imagine how the douchebags Argenti and others have seen would react to hearing about Mr K; gods, they’d probably order a pharmacopeia of drugs just for starters. Neither of my guys ever suggested I had mental illness or anything like it. They dealt with the stress/anxiety issues I wanted help with, and that was it. When I said something wasn’t working, they said “Okay, drop it and we’ll try something else.” I was seeing the first bloke at the very time I was starting to have contact with Mr K, and his response to that change was “If you were any happier, you’d be glowing.” The second guy asked a few too many questions of the wrong sort, briefly – people might remember me fretting about that here! – but cut it out when asked, and was a really kind and helpful therapist. I’m a hell of a lot better than I was a few months ago. Granted my problem was way mild and yes, I’m still on antidepressants (with no desire to come off ’em) but oy, I really do get the feeling that the USian shrinks think, like Nova said, you have to be happy 24/7 or go on drugs.
Though I bet they’d crack the shits about someone being happy 24/7 for the “wrong” reasons, too.
@hellkell – LOL that figures about Miss Lilly and the shower. Cat overeats, cat pukes – it’s the humans’ fault! Punish the humans!
@LBT – haven’t time to read it all but that MST is hilarious! And mind-boggling. The original, I mean.
A lot of therapists seem to have real problems distinguishing between depression the mental illness and the kind of situational depression that people suffer from when something bad happens to them. The latter happens to almost everyone at some point, and I really don’t think it’s helpful to conflate it with clinical depression. It should be OK for people to feel sad in response to unfortunate life events, and being sad in that way doesn’t mean that they need to be medicated.
Honestly, the gaslighting has gotten so obvious that it’s pretty easy to distinguish. I`ve disengaged at this point. There isn’t much that he can do to me anymore that I even care about. Not after last night. The details may be extremely triggering for some people, so I’ll refrain, but… it involved being dragged to an emergency room, humiliated and then grilled on every detail of my life that “concerned” him. I`m much more interested in getting my work situation dealt with, saving some money and disappearing off the face of the earth than to bring him into counseling with me.
Argh, that sounds beyond unpleasant, ER’s are bad enough when you need to be there, and I was there as a “ride” (my former roommate was correct in thinking they’d not let him drive home, so he brought me along to claim I was his ride, I don’t drive, and he’s driven on way worse than the painkillers they gave him). Having to be there for no reason would likely make anyone madder than a hornets nest.
And I’m sorry if I came off as suggesting couples counseling, I meant you, alone, time away from him with someone who (hopefully) will not doubt your perception of events. Obviously that’s your call, I just wanted to clarify in case I came off wrong.
Also, he’s an asshole. Good luck with sorting work and getting away from him.
well all thanks to u guys. after all these years of controlling, demanding n abusing finally it did take atoll on us n gladly now we are called mental.
Didn’t Brad Pitt said the woman is the reflexion of her man. Here u go