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Men’s Rights Redditor: Maybe feminism is “a time bomb planted by them camel jockeys on the ‘western’ world.”

Today, a brief foray into racist conspiracy theory, courtesy of the Men’s Rights subreddit. This is from a discussion of British Prime Minister David Cameron’s internet porn ban, which the Men’s Rightsers seem to think was orchestrated by the evil feminist overlords.

k66sh 5 points 1 day ago* (5|0)  Sometimes think feminism is just a time bomb planted by them camel jockeys on the 'western' world. Soon they'll don those burquas and cite it as a victory for women - no more Male Gaze (TM) jabberwockysuperfly 1 point 1 day ago (1|0)  Replace 'camel jockeys' with 'Marxist culture assassins' and you're spot-on.

Lovely! You may wish to peruse k66ish’s comment history for many other nuggets of wisdom that may involve use of the word “cunt.”

Thanks to Cloudiah for pointing this one out in the comments here.

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Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

emilygoddess — or any of the many things spread out in front of me because my dumb ass thought sewing on a leather toggle would be a hell of a lot easier than it is. I mean, my pen-knife knife-pen alone has one very sharp pokey thing (excellent as a leather punch); two lengths of xacto types blades and saw blades, 3 of each; tweezers, wire stripper, flat head and philips screwdrivers. I could take your eye out and connect it to a circuit board! (Or stab myself in the thumb repeatedly while cursing about leather, either way)

Hmm…actually, most of my sewing box. My fabric scissors Do. Not. Go. Near. Paper., snips, two jewelry pliers and a wire cutter, oodles of sharp wire, dear gods does anyone need that many pins and needles! Safety pins…

I mean, TSA would have a field day with my sewing supplies and all purpose pen (um, the pen itself sucks actually XD )

This comment brought to you by the letter Y (am I sewing leather) and the number 10 (the number of holes punched in said leather).

dustydeste
dustydeste
7 years ago

@emilygoddess

Yes. That. Ugh. So glad I’m in Canada these days.

dustydeste
dustydeste
7 years ago

Oh dear… Argenti, we have two pairs of scissor’s, and the husband knows he’s not to use mine, because mine are The Holy Fabric Scissors, but they’re both the same colour so I freak out every time he’s using any scissors because I think they’re mine. Also now I miss my jewelry pliers and box of odds and ends and whatnot… I can’t wait until I can have all my things back out of storage *sheds a single tear*

What leathery thing are you making? I haven’t ventured into leather yet myself, but I’m kind of considering the idea of trying out glovemaking.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

dustydeste — I’m just adding a toggle clasp to the um, little bag attached to my big bag. So this really shouldn’t be that hard!

Since this really isn’t remotely on the scale of gloves, I haven’t much to offer besides punch the holes first and make sure everything lines up.

And hell yes for The Holy Fabric Scissors! The polyester lining on that jacket was bad enough without the scissors catching, nobody touches my fabric scissors! I hope you get your odds and ends box out of storage soon.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: M Dubz

Yup. And I also ran into folks who seemed to rank kinkiness on whether you were in ‘the scene’ or not; your private life didn’t count.

Seeing as I find the scene really dubious and full of horror stories, it just wasn’t worth it to me.

M Dubz
M Dubz
7 years ago

@LBT- Thank God I seem to have developed an everyday superpower to attract sane and rational kinky people to myself as friends through college, grad school, whatever. Plus there was that rather large contingent of us who were friends in HS and then all looked at each other about a year ago and went … you too??? okay, great. let’s get pizza.

I don’t play with any of these people unless I’m dating them, but I can talk about my sex life like a human being without worrying about hiding anything. Which is really exactly the level that I want my kink in the public sphere. I have friends who are in the local kink community, and meeting some of their kink friends… well… hm.

CriticalDragon1177 (@CriticalDragon1)

Argenti Aertheri,

You wrote,
——————————————————————————————————————–
I don’t follow where that change should be made, in part because burqas and hijabs are very, very different.
——————————————————————————————————————–

I’m aware but I was pointing out that some Muslim women don’t ware Burqas or Hijabs contrary to the stereotype. Also there are lot of Muslim men who clearly don’t have a problem with women, including Muslim women choosing not to ware either of them.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Ah, ok, I get where that change was supposed to be made then. I was just confused since plenty of Muslim women chose to wear hijabs, but idk if anyone chooses to wear a burqa, but certainly not nearly as many as wear hijab.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Oh and just Argenti is fine, you can drop Aertheri if you want.

CriticalDragon1177 (@CriticalDragon1)

Argenti Aertheri,

Glad I was able to clear things up. Sorry about any confusion I may have caused.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
7 years ago

“Replace your meaningless, fear-mongering buzzword with my own meaningless, fear-mongering and you’re spot on!”

kittehserf
7 years ago

My Holy Fabric Scissors were stolen by those morons at airport security!

/rage

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

Maybe, with enough tuna, you could bribe Mads or Fribs to use their claws to cut the fabric?

kittehserf
7 years ago

Knowing Mads she’d just try to chew it (more yarn than fabric these days).

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

@LBT

It’s not BDSM itself, it’s the way those little groups tend to work.

Yep. It doesn’t help that the BDSM scene has legit reasons to fear outsiders finding out about them, a fact which abusers are all too happy to use to their advantage.

@Argenti

idk if anyone chooses to wear a burqa

I’ve read articles about an activist in Paris who still wears her head-to-toe, face-covering garment (I don’t remember if it’s a burqa or something else) in defiance of the ban. I’ll see if I can google up something.

Also, I’ve occasionally wondered if the expectation (or option) of covering yourself from head to toe would make “passing” a whole lot easier for trans* women in those cultures.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
7 years ago

Dustydeste:

The only argument I’ve heard that holds any water whatsoever when it comes to veils is that they could be problematic in helping criminals hide so they won’t be identified/found, which is why face-concealing masks are banned in a lot of places (in the States, at least, to my knowledge). But that doesn’t stop people from wearing masks to commit crimes, and besides, what are we going to do next, ban face bandages for people who’ve hurt their faces?

Face-concealing masks aren’t generally banned in public streets, only in more high-security environments. This is why Islamic face veils aren’t banned in public streets either.

This brouhaha is specifically about face veils (niqab) and not the more mainstream kind that only covers your hair/neck (since some people in this thread seem confused about that). That said, I don’t doubt that the people who want to ban niqabs also feel (to a lesser extent) threatened by all Islamic veils and would ban them if they could.

Heck, probably some of the people who supported the French niqab ban thought they were banning all Islamic veils. It’s not like western bigots are well-versed in these issues.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

I honestly thought France had banned the wearing of “overt religious symbols” (as a way of eliminating all Islamic head-coverings without appearing to target them). I could, of course, be wrong.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

OK, Google tells me that law only applies to schools, and/or that I was thinking of Turkey.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I was just confused since plenty of Muslim women chose to wear hijabs, but idk if anyone chooses to wear a burqa, but certainly not nearly as many as wear hijab.

There was an interview in our morning paper a couple of years ago with a few women who wore niqabs and discussed their various reasons for choosing to do so, and how pissed off they were at the assumption that obviously they must have been forced to do so, or possibly brainwashed into thinking they wanted it themselves although they don’t really. And then one of them added that “obviously, some people reading this interview will think I’ve been brainwashed into claiming I’m not brainwashed” or something like that.

Personally, I think it seems really uncomfortable to be covered up to that extent. Personally, I would also hate to be a sex worker, I really don’t understand people who say they like that line of work, and it’s also completely beyond me how people can get any sexual pleasure out of being beaten etc. BUUUUUUT I can’t generalize from that to the conclusion that nobody chooses to do so, that everyone who does any of these things is either forced to or somehow brainwashed.

I really think there are a lot of parallels between how some feminists speak of sex workers and women who are veiled up.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

I should add that I’m not exactly contradicting you, Argenti, since you didn’t write “I’m certain nobody chooses to wear a burqua!” and I also think that choosing to cover your face is not all that common. Just that it exists.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

It gets murky to me. There are societal pressures that can’t be easily untangled from our personal choices.

I work in some very male dominated fields. I’m rewarded overtly for my interest in them. Can I ever say ‘well, I just chose them because I like them’ knowing that women who make the same choices have to fight to be accepted?

A woman who chooses to be a stay at home mother and says it’s her choice–that’s fine and great and good, but at the same time, there’s a lot of work to be done around making sure that women who choose not to aren’t judged, and that nobody is pressuring women to only be stay at home mothers.

Head coverings and sex work? It can be a valid choice, but we still need to talk about societal pressure.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I have to run, but wanted to clarify that I had completely forgotten about niqabs and wouldn’t lump them in with burqas. I can get that some women choose to wear them, the idea of choosing the wear the stereotypical COVER ALL THE THINGS burqa…that I can’t wrap my head around.

Amnesia
Amnesia
7 years ago

Thank God I seem to have developed an everyday superpower to attract sane and rational kinky people to myself as friends through college, grad school, whatever.

You’re an awesome-people magnet? I’m impressed. And jely. Very jely.

My superpower is just making other people forget stuff. Hence, Amnesia. Feel free to blame all things you forgot on me. Heck, I’m pretty sure I made Linkara forget his badge at a con one time.

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

>>>Face-concealing masks aren’t generally banned in public streets

They are in Montreal now. Fucking liberticidal laws. A few people wearing a mask is a motive for declaring the entire demo illegal, and the cops have whisked a few friends of mine (including my lover) from the streets just for wearing a scarf.

dustydeste
dustydeste
7 years ago

@Arctic Ape

I guess I was just under the impression that mask laws were more common in the States than they actually are, due to my living in Virginia for a good bit, where state law explicitly forbids the wearing of masks in public by those over 16, with a few caveats.

For the record, to be entirely clear, I am totally against banning any veils, hijab, burqa, or niqab. I think any such ban would cause many, many more problems than it would solve. I just can give credence to a comparison between mask laws and potential veil laws. I think the mask law is unnecessary and problematic, but I can see where, from a purely legal perspective, it could be used as a jumping-off point for initiating a veil ban as well. I would hope that any such laws that came to be passed in the States would be challenged and defeated on terms of religious freedom and/or freedom of speech/expression.

Often Partisan
Often Partisan
7 years ago

Now I want to use the tagline “Marxist culture assassin” somewhere, I lolled at it.

J
J
7 years ago

Man, why are MRAs so obsessed with muslims? It seems they always come in at the most random moments, and always as racist caricatures. It’s ridiculous.

Also, I really am in love with the idea of some Algerian bedouins plotting with the International Communist Conspiracy (Marxist)™ to destroy friendless white males who replace human interaction with Reddit. They’ve moved so far beyond (badly) cutting down strawmen that they’re intellectually checkmating shit that isn’t even there.

‘Scuse me gotta report back to ZOG, I need to kidnap some aryan babies so I can quench George Soros’ infanticidal rage

J
J
7 years ago

Oh and to inject my stupid opinion on this whole veiling debate, I think its kind of funny that everyone’s talking about everyone else needing to check their non-BDSMer privilege while, on the same damn page of the comments section, everyone’s getting all contentious over whether muslim women chosing to wear burqas is a good thing or a bad thing.

Personally, I think I’m more offended at people who get sexual gratification from BDSM than at the Indonesian woman down the street who wears the niqab. I really don’t think it’s a problem – not /everything/ has to be this massive complex issue.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

I think I’m more offended at people who get sexual gratification from BDSM

Oh-kay.

dustydeste
dustydeste
7 years ago

Did… did I miss something? I was under the impression that the general consensuses were:

!. BDSM is perfectly fine but participating in it doesn’t make someone “more enlightened” or whatever than people who prefer vanilla sex, and
2. Hijabs, niqabs, and burqas are totally fine unless people are forced to wear them against their will, and we’re kind of upset about laws banning them.

Iunno, maybe my Hivemind™ uplink is malfunctioning and I’ve misunderstood the party line here.

Howard Bannister
7 years ago

Man, why are MRAs so obsessed with muslims? It seems they always come in at the most random moments, and always as racist caricatures. It’s ridiculous.

Because the “phobia” in Islamophobia isn’t just there to look good; it’s actually a description.

I think I’m more offended at people who get sexual gratification from BDSM

I know I’m always totally offended by what consenting adults like to do to each other in the bedroom. It’s part of what helps me feel superior to everybody else.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Oh, let me be offensive! I usually only consider sexytimes to be any good if I have (happily consented to) marks to show for it.

Bask in my offensive love of pain!

(I’m not offended by people wearing religious attire of any sort, but am somewhere between bemused and angry that asking to be bitten instead of kissed is OMGS OFFENSIVE!!)

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Oh, I know the problem. 50 Shades of Grey is not what most BDSM looks like, by miles. My partners do not get off on giving pain, but on hearing me make those noises made during good sexytimes and, you know, the same “you are pleasing your partner” cues that most people enjoy.

The things that make me make those noises are just far more likely to leave (temporary) marks.

So yes, people who get off on controlling others and causing pain the way Grey does? Offensive assholes. The vast VAST majority of people engaging in some form of BDSM? Getting off on things that make them feel good, and/or giving their partner said feelings.

Which, I’m fairly sure, is how non-BDSM sexytimes work.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

I’ll just be over here side-eyeing the fuck out of J’s comment, if anyone wants to join. At least they said their opinion was stupid.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

<<

Sounds like your systems are working correctly to me.

grumpycatisagirl
7 years ago

Except my systems aren’t working. At least my quoting-ability systems. And I wasn’t even trying to block quote.

I meant to say, that, yeah, Dustydeste, I think most of us are on the same page as you are. I know I am.

Leum
Leum
7 years ago

As a non-Muslim guy I’m not sure I’m qualified to speak about this, but I see the appeal of wearing a burqa. While I wouldn’t like to be forced to wear one every time I go outside, I can see the appeal of having the option. Having such a tangible barrier between me and the outside world has a certain appeal to it.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Personally, I think I’m more offended at people who get sexual gratification from BDSM

Why? If they’re insisting that you join in when you’d rather not then sure, you have every right to be pissed off, but if you’re talking about random people I’m not seeing why it’s any of your business as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.

Some people are so weird. J’s comment is like me getting really super offended that there are people who love deep-dish pizza when I personally prefer a thin crust.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I am deeply offended by the existence of people who prefer deep-dish pizza. That’s just wrong! Harumph!

kittehserf
7 years ago

I am deeply offended by people liking fried Mars bars. How dare they!

cloudiah
7 years ago

I just really like harumphing.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Don’t forget to thump your cane on the floor while you do it. 🙂

And GIT OFF MY LAWN!

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

I’m deeply offended that you all are talking about deep fried Mars bars and nobody is bringing me one. That is definitely on the list of things to try when I head to Scotland in September.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

I’m deeply offended by the existence of grape popsicles.

dustydeste
dustydeste
7 years ago

To be fair, my husband is actually kind of offended by deep dish pizza… but he’s Italian, and takes it as a slight on his pizza heritage, haha. He’s such a jerk about Italian food, and how North Americans have RUINED IT, RUINED IT AAALLLLL

He is kind of given to overdramatizing his foodfeels.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
7 years ago

Is anyone here old enough to remember how excruciatingly fabulous Mars bars were before they “improved” them and made them pretty much like other candy bars? Cuz they were excruciatingly delicious and now they are not.

Kim
Kim
7 years ago

How old would I have to be? Because I don’t remember Mars Bars ever being good.

pecunium
7 years ago

More than just side-eye. What people do between themselves, is just that, between themselves. If they are giving informed consent I don’t have many reservations (not none, I have mixed feelings about, e.g. breath play).

pecunium
7 years ago

Kim: It might be that they’ve made them more “american” in other markets. They were quite different overseas. I’ve not had a non-USian one in a couple of years.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

I could eat Mars bars every day! Every day every day.

Damn, now I really want candy. Can I justify eating candy and making myself sick if I have to walk all the way to the convenience store?