In a case of spectacularly bad timing, Fox News happened to choose the day before the Zimmerman verdict was handed down to publish an op-ed proclaiming “the White American Male” to be the most oppressed creature on Planet Earth. In a piece entitled “Men — The New Second Class Citizens,” professional antifeminist Suzanne Venker declared that
From boyhood through adulthood, the White American Male must fight his way through a litany of taunts, assumptions and grievances about his very existence. His oppression is unlike anything American women have faced.
What is revealing about this quote, besides its complete disconnection from reality, is that Venker makes no other references to race in the rest of her piece, which runs through a number of tiresome and oh-so-familiar MRA talking points about the alleged oppression of men.
Venker complains about schools being biased towards girls, from grade schools that force students to sit still to colleges with their infernal Title IX. She whines about “sit coms and commercials that portray dad as an idiot.”
Quoting antifeminist psychologist Helen Smith, a friend of and sometime contributor to A Voice for Men, she suggests that women can get their boyfriends or husbands locked up on a whim just by claiming abuse.
I’m surprised she didn’t talk about the evils of “friend zoning.”
But when Venker refers to “men” in all of these complaints, she is evidently thinking only of white men — why else would she switch so seamlessly from talking about the alleged oppression of “men” to proclaiming “the White American Male” the ultimate victim?
There’s really no other word for this than, well, racist.
The day after Fox published Venker’s nonsense, we were of course reminded (as if any of us really needed to be reminded) of the very real oppression faced by “the Black American Male.”
Trayvon Martin didn’t die because he happened to see a show featuring a bumbling sitcom dad. He died because George Zimmerman saw a young black man in a hoodie walking home from the store and assumed, apparently because Martin was young and black and wearing a hoodie, that he was up to something sinister.
Trayvon Martin didn’t die because he was male; he died because he was a black male. His killer walked free not because his victim was male, but because his victim was a black male.
Suzanne Venker did us all a favor by revealing the unconscious racism underlying so many Men’s Rights complaints. The Men’s Rights movement is not only a movement that is overwhelmingly made up of white men; it’s a movement that’s almost exclusively about white men, and their largely imaginary oppressions, as well. We might as well call it the White Men’s Rights Movement.
Howard Zinn is not a Marxist, he’s a very moderate democratic socialist.
Marxism is not “all about conflict”, it’s about class and the labor theory of value.
And no, Andrew Carnegie’s wife emphatically did not have it as well as he did. She couldn’t even vote, ffs.
@Cloudiah, I’m so sorry to hear it. Meditation and deep breathing have helped me in similar situations in the past.
Hey Jason.
You brought up the quote first. I was just providing context.
Let’s play a game! Cross-reference this with everything Jason has said about how feminists see men. “Heroes” totally sums it up, right?
(Holy crap he is dumb.)
Because women never went on strike, and women were never scabs.
See the difference between MRAs and feminists is that MRAs think men are better than women, while feminists believe that women aren’t worse than men.
Okay, I’m getting off the Internet and reading for a while.
Or this comment wrt to “Schrodinger’s Black Criminal Guy”
Also: the Illiad, a massive story all about Achilles’ emotions.
“TL/DR: I’ve frequently heard people object to the Schroedinger’s Rapist argument as sexist, with anti-black racism used as a counter-example. I reject this comparison because it neglects two important factors: 1) that the issue under discussion is about whether or not we want women to feel more comfortable; and 2) that black people often make similar behavioural adjustments to accommodate the racism of their white friends. I share some personal stories to illustrate this.”
1) Feeling comfortable is a choice. I know fear; I’ve dealt with social anxiety in my past. (Another unmanly feeling, and I’m sure you gentle-hearted feminists will make fun of me for it. Part of my anxiety had to do with the fear that people would see me as a loathsome criminal, maybe even a rapist.) But I mention this because fear is something you have to get over on your own. Most of the time, the rapist is an acquaintance, not a stranger – aren’t you feminists always quoting that one? So, the danger of being attacked on the street probably isn’t great – and it could probably happen very easily to a man too. (Maybe not raped, but definitely mugged or beaten up.) It’s up to you to overcome fear.
2) That’s just it. Black people shouldn’t have to do that! And men shouldn’t have to, either.
” Everyone sees men as heroes”
What does that makes womens role then? Passive damsels in distress if we are going with your story line. Damsels in distress aren’t asked what they want. They aren’t given agency. Heros often deal with eternal conflicts. Have you read the Odyssey? Its a pretty old tale about heros. And they most certainly deal with emotion in it. Most stories (action films included) have men with agency. Men with a plan, men with emotion, men as complex beings.
What earth are you trying to prove. Mens stories are written. Mens stories make the news. Men get to hold places of power. But you argue that men are invisible. Men are given speaking roles in film. Men are given names in film. Women are not. Get your facts straight.
I’m sorry, can’t stick the flounce because I just noticed this:
LOL.
It’s up to you to overcome fear.
Of what? I don’t remember anyone here saying they were afraid.
@Ana – There used to be posters back in the day: “Women, tell your husbands to vote for so-and-so!” Candidates wouldn’t have made those posters if women didn’t have some influence. I expect Mrs. Carnegie has a similar level of influence in her household – and she didn’t even have to work, like her husband did.
“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”
― Margaret Atwood
Dude. Not the same thing.
Also: this and this
Jason, when you’re in line for an ATM, do you crowd up against the person using the ATM?
@Melody – Yes, women are damsels in distress. The man loves the woman so much, he will fight the dragon to rescue her. If a man is imprisoned by a dragon, does a beautiful damsel have any obligation to come to his aid? No.
You don’t acknowledge that much of literature is training men to be disposable. The glorious hero goes off to fight the enemy and comes back shining in glory. What happens in real life? Blown off limbs and PTSD. Literature lies to men. And you feminists believe the lie and work from there.
Doesn’t really matter, unfortunately – most others who go by the label act that way and saying you’re totally different from the rest doesn’t really mean much. I hear the same from libertarians all the time when criticized due to their corporatist ideology – “that’s not my libertarianism”. As if that should mean anything to me or anyone else whose otherwise familiar with its notions. Certainly doesn’t help when that group consistently misrepresents and demonizes feminism despite lacking an actual understanding of it.
That’s weird. Because, as a man, I’ve never been told to not seek help when needed or vent my frustrations when necessary – many of which had to do with being a hormonal male teenager with family issues. Far from “invisible” I’d say. Even these days I see plenty of venues for men to deal with issues, in fact there’s this magazine called “Men’s Health” that’s obviously popular enough to remain getting published regularly. There’s other examples but it’d take hours to point out all the things designed specifically for men in one way or another.
I can’t help but think you didn’t bother to look for these venues or simply deny them, all so you can self-victimize. You obviously want attention going here and espousing your ideas – though you are defensive over the fact people here didn’t like it (what did you expect?). I told a really shitty joke at another and people got on me about it, rightfully – thus feeling bad about it and making sure not to do so again. You post many of the same claims other MRA trolls have before and then get indignant by the fact you were criticized, as if you were expecting a welcome wagon.
Do you proof-read at all? You just made a contradictory statement: first, it’s that the problems men and women face are the same – then turn around and say men’s problems are “hidden on a much deeper level.” You do understand you just said that men’s problems are no worse than women’s problems, but they are. That isn’t “nitpicking” – I’m just pointing out an obvious logical fallacy.
That’s…nauseatingly schmaltzy.
It takes a “special love” to be an MRA? More like “hate”, from my experience. It’s also pretty dismissive of the fact other groups, who’ve been around far longer than the MRA, have been about bringing up actual issues that went ignored or downplayed by the rest of society at the time.
Once again, you prove my point: for MRAs, it’s all about themselves – no one else matters as much as they do. You apparently can’t be a decent human being with an MRA, by your logic. Sorry, but I can’t believe that one bit…
“Feeling comfortable is a choice.”
Not really, no.
If someone’s making me uncomfortable, I can’t just make myself comfortable despite the fact that that person is making me uncomfortable. People’s minds usually don’t work that way.
@Night – Blacks are afraid that whites will laugh at them. Whites are afraid that blacks will kill them. Does that sounds any better? I think not.
By the way, as I argued, fear is your own responsibility, and your demon to get over. Not mine. If there is any truth to the hero’s journey, it’s that you have to face your fears and march into Hell sometimes.
Jason: Anyways, none of this is the point. You can nitpick little things I’ve said, try and make me racist or whatever, but you can’t disprove my original point – that Trayvon Martin was, in part, shot because he was male, and that racism is largely misandrous – and we need to address this issue, or else more incidents like this will happen.
Hrmn….
I’ll say this: Had he been white, and male, we’d never have heard his name.
I’ll also point out that it’s not “feminism” that caused Zimmerman to go hunting for a black person to shoot that night.
And Zimmerman wasn’t a feminist, nor was he female.
So yeah, your argument that “misandry” is the driving force, refuted.
Jason: @Sarah – that’s a very fair point. However, you’ll notice that the stereotypes of black women portray them as manly (overly sexual). Their womanly qualities are under-emphasized.
Unless they are the doting, “Mammy” who adores the “little massas” and atteneds her, “Ma’am” with loving devotion (think Gone With the Wind”
Jews eat hummus,
No… they eat Felafel, Kugel, Cholent, Chopped Liver and Gefilte Fish, except on the nine fast days (such as today was).
I’d go on but it would just give you guys more fuel to call me a racist
No, you gave us more than enough fuel, that was gasoline to the fire.
Not all are even bad (except inasmuch as judging a person by the group they belong to is inherently bad).
Unless they are women, and moreso if they are feminists. amirite?
@Ana – You’re right. Next time I want help stereotyping, I’ll ask a feminist for assistance.
Yep, I’m right.
No matter how racist Zimmerman might be, he wouldn’t have gotten out of the car to chase down a black woman because she might be a criminal.
You sure? He has a history of domestic violence.
“Tons of useful stuff. The men’s guide to fitness, sex, women, workouts, weight loss, health, nutrition and muscle building from the world’s largest men’s magazine.”
Yes, Men’s Health magazine is ALL ABOUT helping men deal with their deepest issues! NO. I love muscle building, I do it myself, but that’s just part of the old masculinity. We MRAs are trying to go beneath the surface.
Jason wins this month’s “most totally mock-worthy quote” contest for posting this less than 4 days after the Zimmerman verdict.
@Jason
WOMEN ARE GIVEN NO AGENCY.
Meaning they don’t have feelings (the thing you were whining about men not having) or wants, desired anything. They are things. THEY are disposable. Think James Bond new woman every show. All damsels. You know who is disposable? No. You probably don’t.
*Told a shitty joke at another post, anyway…
“Not at all. Most of the real problems of men are caused by the social and economic systems that men themselves prefer for other reasons. They’re invisible to men mainly because men prefer not to think that the things they see as beneficial have significant drawbacks for men themselves. ”
These social and economic systems are not necessarily preferable nor are they invisible to all men. Some men, perhaps, but let’s not make sweeping generalizations. It’s unhelpful.
Right, because “influence by proxy” is exactly like being able to vote and make money for yourself and being accepted as a full-fledged, sentient human with civil rights.
What if telling your husband how to vote doesn’t work? What if your husband decides to veto your requests? Oh wait, that’s what happened for years until women demanded the right to vote, largely riding the wave of the influence they began to have in public life on the heels of their entry into the workforce due to industrialization.
No one is saying myths about male heroism don’t hurt men, for the record. Feminists have been saying that for years; some of the most vocal pacifists in history have been feminists.
@pecunium – There was misandry long before feminism.
And @Saintnick, I can’t be responsible for the actions of all MRAs. Paul Elam’s methods are wrong. He sees manhood for what it is, but he can’t break out of it himself. (Not that you guys make it easy for him! If you cared about men’s pain, he and most other MRAs wouldn’t be nearly so angry and Manboobz would have less to write about.) Warren Farrell got me into men’s rights. You’ve heard the misquotes, I dare you to read his book. He presents a magnificent vision of how to help men. A Voice For Men does a lot to help men and I respect them a good deal, but I think they’ve missed the boat on what it really means to deal with the male gender role.