Ladies! Here, fresh from the MensRants subreddit is A Man With Whom You Do Not Want To Be Friends. Or acquaintances. Or anything, really. To be honest, you probably don’t even want this guy to spot you at a distance from the window of a speeding train. Much T.M.I. in this quote:
Dude, I would seriously suggest you start masturbating. A lot. Preferably not in public.
And try not to bother any actual women for a while, at least until you can start conceptualizing of them as something more than objects (like candy or books) that have been set out for you to use as you please.
Also, your “mad and furious master?” “Mad and furious master?” Did you really just write that? I think you mean your boner. If you want to get fancy, your libido. What are you, Heartiste? Can none of you idiots write about sex without getting all purple prosey on us?
I know it’s a tone argument, but it’s not directed at feminists in particular; more at anyone who would encounter this guy at all and realize he has a problem. It’s not so much about being nice and sparing his feelings, but more about how he is likely to respond and accept said advice (especially considering now he just got told it’s all normal from a group of people who think anyone who disagrees with them wants to cut their balls off). Anyone harsh with this guy is going to get dismissed and solidify the MRA belief that male sexuality is being ruined.
And yes actually, in help seeking environments people are sympathetic, or at least don’t freak out. Making someone feel too shitty about a problem they have makes them not want to talk about it again and not continue working on it.
True story, I developed really early but have often opted for a short haircut, and wear jeans/t-shirts every day. In junior high, while we were all outside for a fire drill, some douchebag bully tapped me on the shoulder and mocked, “Are you a boy?!” to shame me for my short hair. I turned around to face him, he saw my sizeable breasts under my t-shirt (seriously, I was already a DD by then), shut the fuck up and slunk away. I didn’t even have to say anything. It was kind of awesome how he ended up being the embarrassed one.
Bailey, you can respond to boner guy however you like. Other people can respond to him other ways.
People who’re unsympathetic towards people like the OP are not responsible for the MRA belief that all feminists want to destroy male sexuality.
Cloudiah, can`t even go on AVfM when it`s kitty-fied… seeing the article names is enough…
Kinda my point.
If you do the wrong thing, even if you truly believe it’s for the right reason, you’re that much closer to doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason (clumsy paraphrase, I don’t have “Thud” handy). A tone argument is, in theory, wrongly dismissing someone because they are obligated to be “nice” (which isn’t a thing unless they are female because females are always obligated to be nice) so it is, theoretically, for the right reason. The biggest problem with tone argument is that it opens the door for other ad hominem dismissals (and, yes, tone argument is ad hominem). No one should be obligated or coerced into being nice to this guy. If he is willing to dismiss someone for not being nice enough, he will dismiss her for wearing or not wearing make up. I honestly believe his state of mind is such that no matter what an actual woman says to him it will be dismissed for any reason he can think up.
…I don`t think I ever demanded anyone do it that way, I just presented a different idea. I didn`t know saying that someone has a point would be seen as forcing said point on everyone.
I’m still not seeing how that relates to my insistence that people are not obligated to adopt a conciliatory, sympathetic tone towards guys like the OP, or how that insistence means that I don’t really read (or understand?) Pratchett.
Oh so that’s who to blame for the illustrations? They’re so hideous. It’s funny that even AVfM’s basic presentation is just askew.
Shaun, having another male tell him differently would obviously work waaaaaaaay better, regardless of tone. I wasn`t really expecting him to listen to any woman either (since he can`t even be around them).
@opium4themasses:
I had to laugh thinking you were saying the guy needs kinky CBT.
This guy seems to think that being around women who he can’t fuck IS kinky CBT.
CassandraSays, I’m making the same argument you are, my initial comment was directed at baileyrenee, and I apologise for not being clear on that. And the idea that doing the wrong thing for what you perceive to be the right reason doesn’t make it right is pure Pratchett, as is the fact that it opens the door to doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason. Tone policing is wrong, even if someone thinks it’s for the right reason, and it opens the door for further ad hominem, and most people don’t see tone policing as ad hominem.
I have to take my youngest to ride her bike in the rain.
Also, the idea that somebody who equates being friends with a woman to being in a candy store where they’re forbidden from eating candy–calling friendship with woman a form of hell–will react nicely if we’re just PATIENT with him…
WTF?
Drawings are all too photoshop-y… and thanks AVfM, for telling us at the bottom of EVERY picture that TB drew it.
baileyrenee, I don’t think any man has an obligation to be nice about this, *unless it is specifically* in a care environment, and I doubt that tone policing is anywhere near as rampant for men as it is for women.
We aren’t therapists & I hardly think this is a help-providing environment. Asking people who are generally the targets of his (and all the others’) nasty rage lust to honor his brave admission is a little much.
He should know just how fucked up his attitude is, and frankly, no matter what anyone says to him I hardly suspect he’s the type so seek out treatment. There’s no interest in change stated just this kind of “rage/lust/it’s just how I am”, not “I know this is a problem, where & how might I alter and repair myself?” He wrote to that specific forum basically for confirmation of his condition.
@ Shaun
No worries! I was just totally confused. I agree with what you’re saying, especially given that the “ew!” reactions aren’t happening in an environment designed to be supportive, they’re happening here. You know, on the blog where we mock misogyny, which the OPs comment is full of.
I hope he doesn’t have any daughters.
I mean just look at how many people spent SO much time being nice to Mr. Al, to be repaid with repeated boundary violations (sock puppeting) and trolling.
I`m pretty sure in my first comment I said that being nice doesn`t apply here. What opium and me are bringing up is that whatever someone`s problem is, if they get shamed too much for it, they will not seek help. Nobody is making anyone here be nice.
I’m also really not seeing how anyone is getting “brave confession from a guy who wants and needs help” from that comment, especially given the last line.
Okay, I know it’s not fair to make fun or r/mr for a post that the mods deleted, but I still want to make sweet delicious fun of this now deleted post on r/mr about Twinkies being marketed to Bros.
The comments about bro culture being appropriated, and how refined male culture is in comparison to “female” culture (as well as how they define that culture), are pretty funny. And it’s all about Twinkies!
LOL “refined”. Indeed, when I think of good taste and refinement I definitely think of Reddit, and dudebro culture in general.
I reread the quote in the post and I can’t really see that this is a guy who admits that he’s got a problem in a way that we ought to empathize with. It would be different if he’d written something like “I can’t help thinking detailed thoughts about sex whenever I’m near a woman, meaning I can’t interact with women – I obviously need help, what do you suggest?”. But he doesn’t. Sure, he doesn’t write that these evil bitches are just teasing him, which I guess means he hasn’t quite hit rock bottom in the pool of misogyny, but he goes on about how he might have too much testosterone, refers to his dick as a “master” and says it would be “a kind of death” not to have a problem with women. It comes out more as boasting about what a super-manly-man he is.
Like when people say stuff like “I gotta admit, I don’t have your social niceties, I’m more of an asshole who always say what I think”, on a very superficial level sounding as if they admire the other person and think zie’s better, when they’re really just boasting about how tough they are.