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Heartiste: Cunnilingus is for betas because vaginas are icky

Man horrified by glimpse of vagina.
Man horrified by glimpse of vagina.

Oh, Heartiste, sometimes I can’t help but wonder if you’ve been trolling us all along. I mean, what kind of master pickup guru is this squicked out by vaginas?

Eating a girl out anytime during the first few weeks of dating is beta. When you eat a girl out, you telegraph your incredible horniness for her. Men normally do not want to go down on women and bury their mouths in that fetid, humid mess unless they find her so overwhelmingly hot that they can’t help themselves.

“Fetid, humid mess?” Seriously, dude, if you hate vaginas so much, why do you devote your entire life to trying to gain access to as many of them as possible?

Women instinctively know this, so they correctly gauge that a man who goes down on them on the first date must feel he’s with one of the best he’s ever had. This, in turn, will sour a woman’s attraction for a man, since no woman in the history of the universe has ever felt raging lust for a man she believed lower than herself in value.

And you know this how? Somehow I doubt that Heartiste and his followers are getting a lot of return engagements from their unfortunate dates.

Cunnilingus later in the relationship is absolved from this rule, because you have already demonstrated your manly ability to use her strictly for the piledriving hole she is.

But isn’t her, er, piledriving hole just as icky as ever? Wouldn’t this still be a beta thing? Does any of this make any kind of sense, even if you buy into Heartiste’s Alpha-Beta claptrap?

If I didn’t already know that Heartiste was a dude in his 40s, I would have assumed he was actually a 15-year-old naif with a chip on his shoulder and a vivid imagination.

Thanks to Wrecksomething on r/againstmensrights for pointing out this Heartiste classic.

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jennydevildoll
8 years ago

Wait, he thinks giving good cunnilingus makes woman LESS attracted to men? Actually not doing it or doing it poorly would be a dealbreaker for a lot of women I know, myself included.

CriticalDragon1177 (@CriticalDragon1)

David Futrelle

“Eating a girl out?” Does he mean eating out with a girl or something? I’ve never even heard that phrase before.

tarnishedsophia
8 years ago

Why does he believe oral sex “lowers your value” or “makes you beta”? Is it because the person giving the pleasure is normally in a lower (sexual) position to the person receiving it? If so, what about 69ing, where you can give AND get…all at once!

I’ll just say this: I wouldn’t give a blowjob to a man who refused to give me cunnilingus. Luckily, my FwB loves oral sex as much as I do. 😉

Darth Conans
Darth Conans
8 years ago

Not to be homophobic/make a tired joke, but are we sure that Heartiste isn’t an overcompensating, self-hating, closeted gay man?

AK
AK
8 years ago

@CriticalDragon, it’s pretty common slang for cunnilingus.

It is a bit weird that Heartiste spends so much time chasing people that he’s apparently completely disgusted by.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I’m so shocked that Fartiste is afraid of vagina. I don’t even think he “piledrives” as much as he’d have people believe.

Owl Cake
Owl Cake
8 years ago

Women instinctively know this, so they correctly gauge that a man who goes down on them on the first date must feel he’s with one of the best he’s ever had. This, in turn, will sour a woman’s attraction for a man . . .

Because if there’s one thing ladies hate above all else, it’s being with a man who finds them sexy and attractive.

Seriously, Heartiste reads significance into a lot of weird things. In the original post, for instance, he announces:

Props also to the aloof and indifferent lack of attention to punctuation. Chicks eat that shit up.

GOOD GRAMMAR IS FOR BETAS.

Also:

When chicks text reply immediately, it means they are sexually aroused.

. . . what?

mythago
8 years ago

@DarthConans, I dunno about “self-hating”, but isn’t it amazing how much of PUA culture is about bonding with other men and talking about sex with other men, with the actual having of sex with women being sort of an icky intermediate step?

Lady Mondegreen
8 years ago

I don’t even think he “piledrives” as much as he’d have people believe.

lol. I can’t be the only one who thinks he comes across as a virgin who’s ashamed of his virginity and lying compulsively to compensate.

Even if he really is sexually experienced, his claim to be an “alpha” dude is pretty hilarious.

Ally S
8 years ago

Props also to the aloof and indifferent lack of attention to punctuation. Chicks eat that shit up.

“Your run-on sentences turn me on.”

“That misplaced semicolon is making me horny.”

Said no one ever.

When chicks text reply immediately, it means they are sexually aroused.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

What the fuck did I just read?

sarahlizhousespouse
8 years ago

“Cunnilingus later in the relationship is absolved from this rule, because you have already demonstrated your manly ability to use her strictly for the piledriving hole she is.”

This doesn’t follow. If an “alpha” is using a woman “strictly” as a “piledriving hole” then cunnilingus is a deviation and completely unnecessary. Unless said “alpha” likes that “fetid, humid mess” which Heartiste says they do not.

Which brings me to my question of how does Heartiste known what men and women as a collective are thinking? Is he a mind reader? What a bunch of woo.

tooimpurenangel
8 years ago

Seriously, if I were a dude, I’m pretty sure I’d want to be the beta-est beta who ever beta-ed. They just sound like they have more fun in life. The self-proclaimed alphas sound like they don’t take much risks in life out of fear of losing their super-duper alpha cred or something.
And does anybody actually believe this guy? Because he writes like he’s trying to be featured on weepingcock.

SittieKitty
8 years ago

Cunnilingus later in the relationship is absolved from this rule, because you have already demonstrated your manly ability to use her strictly for the piledriving hole she is.

Wow. The amount of hatred in that last sentence speaks volumes. Literally reducing a woman down to her vagina.

…And yet still in a relationship and trying to maintain it with oral sex? This guy just keeps making less and less sense. And anyone who thinks that PUAs don’t hate women, look no further than this self-proclaimed guru with lots of followers. It’s not about self-confidence and self-improvement, it’s about hating women.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Dudes, misters, this is what objectification is: “piledriving hole.” This has been Feminism 101 for today. Your welcome.

drst
drst
8 years ago

Because if there’s one thing ladies hate above all else, it’s being with a man who finds them sexy and attractive.

Yeah I know nothing turns me off more than a guy I find attractive telling me he’s so hot for me he wants to eat me out. Especially if he does it with proper grammatical construction. *shudder*

anadiomene122
anadiomene122
8 years ago

The difference between a PUA and an MRA? About 15 years and one messy, bitter divorce. All that Roissy is missing is the latter, otherwise he’d be well on his way to being Elam’s rightful successor to the MRM throne.

Tracy
8 years ago

If I was getting sexual with a guy on the first date and he went down on me, I’d be THRILLED and far more likely to want a second date. I wouldn’t think I had power over him (or whatever this arglebargle meant). I’d think he was a considerate, awesome lover.

Xen
Xen
8 years ago

I’m singing all the MRAs up for the manned Mars mission. Good riddance.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

If I was getting sexual with a guy on the first date and he went down on me, I’d be THRILLED and far more likely to want a second date. I wouldn’t think I had power over him (or whatever this arglebargle meant). I’d think he was a considerate, awesome lover.

It certainly wasn’t the only reason why my wife and I got engaged around three months after our first date, but the fact that the first date ended so pleasurably from both our perspectives didn’t exactly put us off a second one. And I believe the third was well within the same week too.

Robert
Robert
8 years ago

Fetid, humid mess? Sweet honey in the rock, that is seriously badminded. Why would any self-respecting woman let ANYone with that attitude anywhere near her ruby fruit jungle? It’s as if he’s trying to Poe himself.

I hope neither of my sons turns out like that, although that part of their education might be better handled by my husband, who has actually visited the jungle in question.

anadiomene122
anadiomene122
8 years ago

It’s funny that even when women try to explain how their sexuality actually works, MRAs just put their fingers in their ears and go “la la la”…

The one man I’ve run into who universally made women swoon was the UPS guy who used to come to my office. He was good looking but also funny, considerate, would remember birthdays, compliment people on new outfits, and was just a generally fun person to be around. I don’t know what UPS workers make, it’s probably a decent salary, but I know it was significantly less than most of the women who were swooning over him were making. And this was in a neighborhood where you can’t throw a rock without hitting a millionaire.

dustydeste
dustydeste
8 years ago

ruby fruit jungle

That’s a new one for me. I like it. Like a combination of a grapefruit and the great outdoors.

dustydeste
dustydeste
8 years ago

But yeah, a lack of eating out, in the ruby fruit jungle sense (but really if we didn’t go out for sushi regularly, that would be disappointing too), would be a total dealbreaker for me. My husband doesn’t often remember that, hey, going down on me is something that he can do, but it’s more because he’s not as enthusiastic about receiving oral sex as I am. If I bring it up, he’s always happy to oblige, and usually says something about how he wishes he’d remember it was an option more often, because he enjoys doing it.

Really I cannot conceive of being more into someone because they had absolutely no interesting in mutual pleasure, but only wanted to get themselves off.

gelar
gelar
8 years ago

just put their fingers in their ears and go “la la la”…

Or, “no, I’ll tell you how it actually works.”

emilygoddess
8 years ago

Men normally do not want to go down on women and bury their mouths in that fetid, humid mess unless they find her so overwhelmingly hot that they can’t help themselves.

Or it could be because they enjoy making their partners feel good? Nah, we all know that even an act which mainly benefits the woman is really about what the man wants.

MaudeLL
8 years ago

This, in turn, will sour a woman’s attraction for a man, since no woman in the history of the universe has ever felt raging lust for a man she believed lower than herself in value.

I’ve never understood this concept of value. Value to whom? He definitely doesn’t mean value to the woman. He doesn’t mean value to society either (his value-man model is more keen on shitting on people randomly and making grammatical errors as a mating strategy). What’s the human value algorithm?

gelar
gelar
8 years ago

When chicks text reply immediately, it means they are sexually aroused.

. . . what?

And the corollary:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-women-always-answer-their-phones-unless-they,18254/

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
8 years ago

These alpha PUAs sound more like care bear villains. They hope to sow discord and self-hatred among others in order to feel better about themselves.

Chloe
Chloe
8 years ago

Funny, I just read an article on Jezebel about how performing oral sex on a woman is a “mate retention strategy”.

dustydeste
dustydeste
8 years ago

What’s the human value algorithm?

I’m pretty sure the equation is V = (P + E) / (K + S)

Where P = amount of pomposity; E = size of unchecked ego; K = whether the subject has progressed past Kohlberg’s preconventional stage of moral development, where having passed this stage gives a value of 1 and not having passed gives a value of 0; and S = sex, with male being given a value of 0 and any other sex being given a value of 1.

We can tell that this equation is totally misandric because of the male sex being assigned a value of 0.

/heavy sarcasm

dustydeste
dustydeste
8 years ago

Oh, forgot to specify that V = human value. Just for complete transparency 😛

Zanana the Pegging Queen
Zanana the Pegging Queen
8 years ago

I shouldn’t know this, but this is the fucking 14th “Commandment of Poon” from Roissy himself:

XIV. Fuck her good

Fuck her like it’s your last fuck. And hers. Fuck her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.

“kiss her all over…. give her squirting orgasms….”

Do that, but WITHOUT cunnilingus? dude is king of self-contradiction.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

I’ve never understood this concept of value. Value to whom? He definitely doesn’t mean value to the woman.

I think he does mean value to the woman, because according to his warped idea of how the female psyche works we crave someone who belittles and degrades us and feel deeply unfulfilled if we’re with someone nice.

Dvärghundspossen
8 years ago

So, basically, if a man goes down on her, he’s not then and there belittling and degrading her (I’m not saying cunnilingus can’t be belittling or degrading, obviously it could be if, say, an abuser did it on someone who didn’t want to, but I’m trying to channel Fartiste here). That means he sinks below her in value, as someone who tries to do something nice to her, therefore looks up at her rather than down (seeing each others as equals doesn’t exist). So he sinks below her by doing this.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

From David’s comments:

If I didn’t already know that Heartiste was a dude in his 40s, I would have assumed he was actually a 15-year-old naif with a chip on his shoulder and a vivid imagination.

Emotionally, he is, and I agree, it doesn’t sound like he’s been near many women at all. Possibly the closest is if he’s harassed someone on a crowded subway. The more Fartiste writes, the less likely it seems he has any experience of what he’s writing about. If nothing else, someone who hates women that much and describes our genitals as he does is hardly going to deign to put his Manly Man Alpha Man face anywhere near them – for which the few unfortunates who may have dated him are probably most grateful!

@Robert – ruby fruit jungle, okay, it’s weird but it’s better than most of the slang for genitals I’ve heard. 😀

One term I really dislike is “eating her out”. It sounds too much like sublimated aggression. Not fond of “blow job” for that matter: it ain’t a job and blowing isn’t the description I’d have thought of!

Marie
Marie
8 years ago

I don’t think he’s in his 40’s, more like 20’s. Unlike the others, Doosh (in his 30’s) and that guy who pulls rabbits out of hats (40) this guy Roissy seems to be the same person who wrote In Male Fide and never shows his face. I may be wrong but but they both have the same penchant to use French names. Roissy, Château Heartiste, and the French writer’s name Ferdinand (something )

Someone mentioned that these guys may be homosexual and I’m beginning to wonder because “piledrive” means anal sex. You’ll also notice that many of the comments have to do with fucking some girl up the ass.Now these may just be boys who have watched too much porn because in real life very few woman would like that, or the comments are by Roissy under a fake name.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

All that crap about squirting orgasms … why doesn’t he just write slash?

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Marie – no, Matt Forney wrote In Mala Fide as Ferdinand Bardamau, iirc.

I think David’s seen Fartiste (or photos of a bloke purporting to be him) so he knows he’s older than in his 20s – chronologically, at least.

Zanana the Pegging Queen
Zanana the Pegging Queen
8 years ago

@dustydeste,
Rubyfruit Jungle is actually the title of a pretty fun book, and fits the context, though I’m not sure that’s what was being referenced here: http://www.amazon.com/Rubyfruit-Jungle-Rita-Mae-Brown/dp/055327886X

SittieKitty
8 years ago

Marie, fucking someone in the ass is supposed to be “more degrading” for the woman because the woman is supposed to have a vagina and that’s what a vagina is for doncha know? That’s the reason why these kinds of people focus on anal sex so much, because it’s “using” the body in the “incorrect” way and mentally they can apply power to that dynamic. Same with oral sex, most people live in their head, with the body being added on. To “incorrectly use” the mouth, so close to the mind, is an aspect of power. Hence, a preference for oral/anal sex for these assholes, and the idea that giving oral sex to a woman lowers your value because you’re somehow giving up power, or something.

Robert
Robert
8 years ago

Zanana, that’s the source. Not having been all that near one since a Spring day in 1961, I depend on secondary sources for my vulvalvular knowledge.

SittieKitty
8 years ago

By live in their head I mean they have their center, their mind, their consciousness exist in their head, and expand through themselves from there.

Ally S
8 years ago

XIV. Fuck her good

Fuck her like it’s your last fuck. And hers. Fuck her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.

That’s not creepy at all.

/sarcasm

baileyrenee
baileyrenee
8 years ago

@Zanana the Pegging Queen

Zanana the Pegging Queen

What a glorious name to have for this thread, lmao!

Anyway, from reading some of this guy’s stuff, it seems like he expects men to not TRY to give women good sex, but to be so ULTRA-ALPHA that she enjoys anything you do. Which, obviously, sounds like it puts even more pressure on men to perform and is terrible advice… I wonder how many guys have read this shit and ended up being told or finding out after that he was an awful lover. It’s really sad how some men feel such a need to come off looking like a sex-pert they would never dream of just asking a woman what sort of things she likes.

I really want to see what this Heartiste guy looks like. I need to put a face on these words!

CL
CL
8 years ago

Not even gonna try to circumvent the blockquote monster, but check out this response to a comment on that post:

“Editor: When a girl drops the “i still think of my ex” shit test — and make no mistake, that’s what it is — the worst thing you can do is accept her frame and plead, coerce, or otherwise gently persuade her to get over it. You have to reframe by co-opting her stinky bait: tell her you know the feeling, and then plow. Don’t wait for her answer.”

Is that the incitement to rape I think it is? I am parsing that as “just stick it in without consent.” Please tell me I am wrong?

SittieKitty
8 years ago

CL, I read that even worse than you did… lack of consent and talking about a survivor… and even in the most innocent light, it’s still outright telling your gf that you’re thinking of your ex while you’re having sex with her 🙁 Fuck I’m jaded ::goes to find brain bleach::

Zanana the Pegging Queen
Zanana the Pegging Queen
8 years ago

What a glorious name to have for this thread, lmao!

Thanks! SunshineMary totally gifted me this name when I was arguing with her (based on anecdata) about whether any woman could be attracted to a submissive man…

I wonder how many guys have read this shit and ended up being told or finding out after that he was an awful lover.

Seriously, I wish somebody would refer his poor readership to Tristan Taormino or Susie Bright or someone else who knows what the fuck they’re talking about.

ignotussomnium
ignotussomnium
8 years ago

Uh huh. IMO this just backs up the idea that these guys see oral as degrading for the one doing it. They can’t possibly fathom the idea of doing something for someone because making them feel good is a reward in and of itself.

SittieKitty
8 years ago

Brain bleach:

Ally S
8 years ago

Some screaming goats:

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