In a disgusting if not surprising development, George Zimmerman has been found not guilty of killing Trayvon Martin. For coverage, see here.
Discuss, post links, etc below.
EDIT: This is a troll-free thread. If you’re coming here to gloat over the verdict, to use the verdict as an excuse to trash women or feminism, or post racist garbage, don’t. If you want to argue that the verdict was just and/or we live in a post-racial society, go somewhere else. None of us are in the mood for that bullshit.
Clearly the distinction between “legal murder” and “murder” matters here; the latter refers to the moral concept of murder, which simply means “immoral killing.”
Thank you, Ally. I was just coming down to say that.
Zimmerman apparently didn’t commit murder in Florida, but only because their self-defense laws are so fucked up that he was able to stalk and shoot an innocent unarmed kid without it counting against him. Morally, he committed murder, and likely would have been found guilty of at least manslaughter if this had happened in another state. Morally, he should be in prison.
No, Ally, I got it. I just wanted to be explicit about my feelings on the matter. Zimmerman’s conduct was legal under the common understanding of the statute. That adds horror to tragedy from my perspective. The jury did the ‘correct’ thing in reading the law and applying it to what was demonstrated, but that is far from the right thing.
Marie, I’m not sure what you are trying to say, but it’s cutting dangerously close to bullshit. We don’t really know that Zimmerman “made no attempt to stop or interfere” and the only account of that meeting we have (Zimmerman’s) is not objective or unmotivated.
What about Martin’s right to stand his ground? If someone in their car had been following you around your neighborhood as you innocently walked to get a drink and a snack, and then got out of their car to confront you, would you not find this a hostile, potentially aggressive act? I’ve tried to put myself in Zimmerman’s shoes to see if I could empathize, and I just can’t; nothing he did feels reasonable to me. I can empathize with Martin. I know what it is like to be innocently walking home in the dark and to suddenly be aware that someone is following you and has been for a while. I know how it feels to have that person come walking up to you. I tried to run away (and that just made him angrier).
Following someone like this is indeed often considered a crime. It’s called harassment sometimes and stalking at other times.
The feds are reopening the case to see if they can charge him under civil rhttp://bigstory.ap.org/article/justice-dept-zimmerman-case-under-reviewights statutes:
Er, let me try that again: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/justice-dept-zimmerman-case-under-review
Not quite sure what happened with my C&P there…
“What about Martin’s right to stand his ground? If someone in their car had been following you around your neighborhood as you innocently walked to get a drink and a snack, and then got out of their car to confront you, would you not find this a hostile, potentially aggressive act?”
This x infinity. How on earth people can argue that Martin wasn’t acting out of self defense is beyond me. I would be terrified if some strange person was stalking me on my way home.
Also, gillrosebee, that is so depressing that you can ‘find ground to stand’ & be legally covered. That totally seems like a license to kill
I firmly believe Zimmerman murdered Martin and got away with it
@Galundi,it gets especially bizarre when they start claiming Martin couldn’t have been acting in self-defense because he could have run away or gone home…but Zimmerman was justified in chasing him because of SYG. Huh?
@AK, yeah
Somehow, Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin because he felt his life was in danger, but Martin wasn’t justified in fighting Zimmerman (not only was Martin justified in feeling his life was in danger, but the result shows his life *was* in danger).
If Martin’s life wasn’t in danger at any point in the confrontation, wouldn’t he still be, you know, alive?
“Let’s make no bones about it, Florida law explicitly allows you to start a fight and then shoot someone dead in “self defense.””
[insert string of expletives here]
“Argenti-this has nothing to do with Stand Your Ground and even if Florida didn’t have this Statute it would still come down to whether or not it was self defence.”
Fuck no. You do not get to shoot to kill because you started a fucking fist fight.
Everyone —
1) this isn’t our Marie right? Fade, go make sure your sister hasn’t lost her common sense?
2) if he was, as he claimed, getting his head bashed into the sidewalk to such a degree he feared for his life, how the FUCK did he manage to draw his gun anyhow? I’ve yet to hear an answer, even from the right wing, that doesn’t have his gun already out. At absolute least, he had it in his waistband, with a round in the chamber, and the safety off. Which is both fucking stupid in general, and a rather obvious sign he was expecting to use it — as in, he had it for when he needed it, not if he needed it. With cops on the way. After he left the safety of his house.
There is no fucking way this wasn’t murder by any moral definition.
“There are Statutes that clearly define what a crime is. The same is true with rape. The Statute will define what it is and you just can’t make something up and call it rape.”
You heard it here first folks! You can’t withdraw consent in states that haven’t explicitly made that rape. Anal rape isn’t rape in states that still use penis-in-vagina definitions, nor is any sort of rape with a male victim, or an object. If you have sex without someone falling down drunk who gives no signs of consent, but you didn’t provide the booze with the intent to “take advantage” of your “sex partner” it isn’t rape unless that state specifically says it is (it isn’t in CT, you can be black out drunk, but as long as you got yourself that way, it isn’t rape)
Has anyone emailed the dark lord about this fucker?
@Cassandra
Please don’t stop. Honestly, seeing people rage about this, especially white people, is the only thing keeping me together today. I was at a deli today when a news report came up, and hearing the white owner’s sardonic comments were straight balm to my soul.
@Argenti
I highly doubt this is our Marie. Aside from the fact that I can’t see her taking that stance, her account name is not “Marie”, and the writing style is nothing like her.
Marie, please go away. There are a million foul corners of the Internet where they will happily accept your hot air so there is no need to blow it over here.
I can’t even speak about this verdict, it’s so awful.
I saw this posted elsewhere: 47 pg document listing all of Zimmerman’s calls to the police for things as minor as “children playing in the street”. He was obsessed with his vigilantism. Forty seven pages worth of calls.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html
@Shadow, I wish I could find it in me to rage. Sadly, this is what I expected. That it makes me want to vomit is another question.
That is exactly what it is. Zimmerman was acting out some Charles Bronson hero fantasy, which is explicitly what Florida law allows and even promotes.
And since he was aquitted, Zimmerman will most likely be eligible to get his licence to carry back.
My favorite pharmacy student summed it well: “this society is so damned broken”
Shadow — if this is our Marie, Fade needs to go make sure she doesn’t have a concussion or sometng, cuz this would indeed be completely out of character (where’ve those two been lately anyways?)
rabbitwink — the fucking fuck? How the fuck do you fucking…
Oh, I’m so glad that (probably) isn’t our Marie. I was way more civil than I wanted to be because it seemed so unusual for her…I thought I must be misreading the post or something. It makes a lot more sense if that is someone else with the same username.
Marie, give it a rest or you’re going on moderation.
I know people whose worldviews have undergone a 180, and I’m one of them. But I can’t see that happening with cool Marie because she’s passionate about her views and doesn’t seem very apologetic at all about the other side.
I mean, of course people’s views can change over time, but not in such a short amount of time.
(Also, it’s a different Marie.)
Ok, some of these are 911 calls over POTHOLES. I might have to try that, calling town hall sure doesn’t help!
The house here is off a one way road that makes you swerve like you’re drunk if you try to avoid hitting the potholes. Apparently this is an emergency. As is the neighbor leaving the garage door open.
We’ve also got an “aggressive” pit bull that got pinned by the K-9 unit and then the incident was cleared. Sounds like the pit just has a functioning asshole detector.
Parties, noise, littering, loitering, a shit ton of traffic complaints. It’s like he had the cops on speed dial (ok, besides the fact that all cells do now…)
7-9 year old walking towards an elementary school unsupervised…uh, I was in charge of walking myself, my neighbor (2 years younger) and the girl down the street (4? Years younger) when I was 10. Pretty sure a 7-9 year old can handle walking himself to school in your safe little gated community.
And ONE actual police issue — page 27 could’ve been DV, but was deemed “verbal only” (which, of course, doesn’t mean everything was dandy, just that screaming at each other is legal)
47 pages, one actual potentional emergency. One pit bull that had the sense to hate him (I like this dog’s taste in humans)
Whew for different Marie. I was worried there too.
Wow. Calling 911 for potholes? Try that here and you’d be arrested.
And get fined a shitload of money. If you call 911 for things that aren’t 911-worthy, they get really angry around here.
RE: AK
The feds are reopening the case to see if they can charge him under civil
I hope they win. Seriously, I’ve been avoiding this case because I smelled this coming and dammit, I’ve only recently recovered the requisite brain bandwidth to plan for the future. I didn’t want to blow it right off.
Jesus, the fuck is wrong with our country. I don’t know if it’s really getting worse or just that I’m paying more attention.
Thanks for this tread…It is sickening how sooo many fucking people are all like be objective!!! Its not all black and white!! stop being sooo emotional…when Why!? a 17 year old kid is dead because some racist asshole decided to murder him….sorry if I am coming across as ranting…but I am really, really angry at society….Zimmerman should be in jail period