Categories
open thread racism victim blaming

Open Thread: Zimmerman Verdict

Reacting to the verdict.
Reacting to the verdict.

In a disgusting if not surprising development, George Zimmerman has been found not guilty of killing Trayvon Martin. For coverage, see here.

Discuss, post links, etc below.

EDIT: This is a troll-free thread. If you’re coming here to gloat over the verdict, to use the verdict as an excuse to trash women or feminism, or post racist garbage, don’t. If you want to argue that the verdict was just and/or we live in a post-racial society, go somewhere else. None of us are in the mood for that bullshit.

368 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Ally S
11 years ago

” I can’t be sure if he’s evil, but he’s done something monstrous”

Translation: He’s not evil, but he’s evil.

=|

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Actually one more comment before I go. Stop and think about how it reads to be suggesting that it was in any way reasonable for a grown man with a gun to be afraid of a teenage boy who quite frankly was not terribly physically imposing. Really think about what you have to assume about young black men in order for a teenager walking around talking to his girlfriend on the phone to seem like a threat. Consider how unlikely it is that a person afraid for his life would track the person he’s supposedly so afraid of rather than stepping back and letting the professionals handle things.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
11 years ago

“Consider how unlikely it is that a person afraid for his life would track the person he’s supposedly so afraid of rather than stepping back and letting the professionals handle things.” CassandraSays, may I steal that?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

@ Shaun

Sure. The more people calling these arguments out for the racist bullshit they are the better.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
11 years ago

Man, this post-racial america thing is really working out well. Why didn’t we try it sooner, since all we had to do was elect a black President? Really, it’s much easier than the alternative of engaging in systematic and fundamental social change. Can’t you just feel the post-racial colorblind harmony:

http://io9.com/disturbing-chart-shows-rise-in-justified-killings-of-773490798

And for any of our trolls who think it’s super delusional and librul feminist or whatever to think race had anything to do with the murder totally justified self-defense killing of Trayvon Martin, I invite them to scrutinize this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/nyregion/23trial.html?_r=4&

I’m sure the people setting off fireworks because Zimmerman was acquitted were just celebrating a late 4th of July.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
11 years ago

After Zimmerman was acquitted, I mean. I would never infer such a relationship. In post-racial america, we only see the colors red, white, and blue.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
11 years ago

CassandraSays, I have quoted you (without credit, but as a quote) on this.

George Zimmerman had a history of domestic violence. Domestic violence is a predictor of murder. Glad we got that out of the way.

George Zimmerman hunted down, stalked, terrified, and killed a teenager who was armed with Skittles. This was not racially motivated.

George Zimmerman told police it was “self defense” when he stalked and terrified a teenager whom he then killed, and was not arrested for 45 days. This was not racially motivated.

Trayven Martin’s entire life was scrutinized by attorneys for any shred of evidence to prove he was a criminal. This was not racially motivated.

The judge at George Zimmerman’s bail hearing decided that domestic violence, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, was not an indication that George Zimmerman was violent or dangerous. This was not racially motivated.

Trayven Martin’s friend was ridiculed by the press for her speech, grammar, vernacular. This was not racially motivated.

A jury acquitted George Zimmerman of murder and manslaughter. This was not racially motivated.

I think nearly all of this was racistly motivated. Let’s just call it that, shall we?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

What’s making me want to bang my head on the wall at this point is that even some non-trolls don’t seem to be able to wrap their brains around the fact that the very idea that Zimmerman might have been “scared” of Martin is racist. The fact that a jury found that argument reasonable is racist. The fact that the lawyer thought it was a good argument to make is racist. The fact that the jury still found the argument reasonable even though Zimmerman was not acting like a person who was scared is, guess what? A result of racism. The fact that it’s not immediately obvious to everyone how ridiculous “adult man with gun is scared of teenager walking around not doing much” is evidence of a society that’s racist right down to the bone.

cyranothe2nd
cyranothe2nd
11 years ago

Fuck, this is so scary to me. Black lives are already so devalued, and in SYG states even more so. What this verdict does is give permission to any maniac with a gun to shoot a black youth without consequence.

“Whites who kill blacks in Stand Your Ground states are far more likely to be found justified in their killings. In non-Stand Your Ground states, whites are 250 percent more likely to be found justified in killing a black person than a white person who kills another white person; in Stand Your Ground states, that number jumps to 354 percent.”

Source:http://io9.com/disturbing-chart-shows-rise-in-justified-killings-of-773490798

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Also, if a racially motivated murder doesn’t make someone an evil person I’m rather curious as to what he’d have to do to earn that title. Does he need to grow horns and carry a trident?

Ally S
11 years ago

” Does he need to grow horns and carry a trident?”

He needs to do that, and he also needs to clearly say “I’m an evil racist person.” Because we all know that evil people tell everyone how evil they are.

scarlettpipstrelle
11 years ago

I was looking for manslaughter or a hung jury. My youngest wore hoodies, and even a skull cap and had a sinister goatee. His substance abuse and criminal dabbling were far more serious than Trayvon’s ever was. Fast forward to now: he’s 28, married, a homeowner and has a Master’s degree in Mechanical Engineering. And his record is sealed. Did I mention he’s white? Trayvon wasn’t doing anything illegal. We don’t know how the fist fight got started but we do know that Zimmerman was following him after being told not to. Neighborhood Watch folks aren’t supposed to be carrying guns as part of their duties. I’m very disturbed at the reaction of white friends last year. They demonized Trayvon like they used to do to rape victims: as if to say, ‘this person isn’t worth ruining the accused’s life over.’

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

*sigh* since apparently we are discussing the legalese, I guess I will touch Stand Your Ground laws.

For one, what cyranothe2nd said — it makes racially motivated murder easier to get away with.

For two, it turns legit self-defense into a joke. If you feel threatened, no matter how unreasonable that fear, you may take any action to end the “threat”, and you don’t need to attempt to withdraw from the situation first.

Now, in theory, you’ll need to show that there really was at least an appearance of a threat — as seen by the good old legalese “reasonable person”. But, hi obvious fact, if the victim is dead, you can tell whatever fucking story you like…and skittles are terrifying weapons!

The end result of this PILE OF SHIT being that you can leave your house to go question someone minding their own business, decide they’re a threat, shoot to kill, and then claim they attacked you and it’s all fucking legal.

So yes, it was probably the legally correct ruling, because Stand Your Ground laws are complete and utter bullshit.

In any case, juries decide in facts, not legal matters. The question posed to them wasn’t whether Zimmerman had to retreat, or similar, but whether he had a reasonable fear. Which…SKITTLES!! Wtf was he going to do, pelt them at his eye?!

In summary, Stand Your Ground laws are horribly written pieces of shit that give cover to racial motivated murder, and in no way shape and or form should leaving your house to go confront someone you called the cops on be ground you’re allowed to stand. You feel so damned threatened, stay the fuck inside!

Hrovitnir
11 years ago

I’ve just been so down ever since I heard this. I keep periodically fighting back tears. Because I feel so powerless. I am so, so angry but it’s been masked in a shroud because I actually cannot get over that this just happened.

I just cannot imagine being a black parent in the US right now. Fuck Florida, fuck racism, fuck everything.

CassandraSays | July 14, 2013 at 2:41 am
What’s making me want to bang my head on the wall at this point is that even some non-trolls don’t seem to be able to wrap their brains around the fact that the very idea that Zimmerman might have been “scared” of Martin is racist. The fact that a jury found that argument reasonable is racist. The fact that the lawyer thought it was a good argument to make is racist. The fact that the jury still found the argument reasonable even though Zimmerman was not acting like a person who was scared is, guess what? A result of racism. The fact that it’s not immediately obvious to everyone how ridiculous “adult man with gun is scared of teenager walking around not doing much” is evidence of a society that’s racist right down to the bone.

Amazing. This is perfect. And so FUCKING OBVIOUS WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE. Also, from yoisthisracist.com:

“Hey, who remembers Marissa Alexander, the Florida woman who fired warning shots at her ex-husband who she had a restraining order against and wasn’t even arrested and was a perfect example of Stand Your Ground laws working the way they’re supposed to? Oh wait, she was sent to prison for 20 years because she’s black and a woman, not a whiteish dude killing a black child. FUCK FLORIDA.”

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

It’s really disturbing me that there are adults who can look at the pictures of Martin, and then look at the pictures of Zimmerman, and not feel that gut-level protective urge that we should feel towards children. Yeah, sure, he was in high school already, but from the perspective of someone my age, looking at those photos? He was a kid, and the idea of an adult going after him puts me into mama bear rage mode. And I don’t even have any kids.

Ally, Argenti, Kittehs and any other regulars, please let me know if I’m stepping over the line into a level of attack mode that’s not appropriate, because I’m having a hard time reining in my emotional reaction to this.

Ally S
11 years ago

Cassandra, you’re essentially repeating my own thoughts, so I don’t have any objections to the things you’re saying.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Oh look, I apparently need to add “legal murder” to “legal rape”. As in, the kind that it’s illegal to do.

So Zimmerman may not have committed legal murder, but he committed murder all the same.

Point? Laws suck, anyone who takes that as “well I guess this means he isn’t really evil” has a whole set of fallacies going on, and is worse than the laws — they’re much easier to change without people support I them.

lensman (@l3nsman)
11 years ago

This verdict is bullshit…

What I find most disturbing is Zimmerman’s reaction to all this: It’s not the reaction of a normal human being to murder.

To clarify: A few years ago in Greece there was a case of a man who shot someone who broke into his home. The intruder had the man’s wife hostage, had stuck a knife at her throat and was begining to push it in deeper, to the point where she was bleeding. In order to save his wife, the man shot the intruder on the face, who died instantly.

The man was arrested and acquited in a few days as he was clearly acting in self-defense. There was a huge public support for him and plenty of people who went online and said things like “this man is a fucking hero, we should all do what he did”. And when it was revealed that the intruder was of Albanian descent, the Golden Dawn party essentially tried to portray him as “a positive example of what every Greek man should do”.

Then the man went online and gave a few interviews. He said that people shouldn’t idolize him and shouldn’t portray him as a hero. He said that what he did was absolutely horrible and morally indefensible and that people shouldn’t do what he did that night. He was clearly shaken and feeling remorse about the whole incident, and his public stance was what essentially calmed things. Last I heard of him, he was admitted to a mental hospital after attempting to commit suicide. He just couldn’t live with the fact that he killed another human being…

…Now contrast this to Zimmerman’s reactions. He clearly feels no remorse about what he did. He has yet to apologize to Martin’s family, and it’s clear that he sees himself as some sort of hero.

My point is this: killing someone messes a normal person up. Even when it’s done in order to save a loved one’s life, the mere fact that you took another human life is enough to drive you insane. A normal person never gets over this sort of thing.

Zimmerman is NOT a normal person. He is clearly a murdering psychopath. And for that, he belongs behind bars.

Ally S
11 years ago

Zimmerman is not a “psychopath.” He’s a racist asshole who is using his privilege to treat black people like garbage. His lack of remorse is a product of his lack of empathy and racism, not psychopathy.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Not this shit again.

hrovitnir
11 years ago

People all respond differently to trauma. See: rape. The reason why Zimmerman has reacted the way he has is because… he’s a racist arsehole who feels good about removing a black kid from the world and his neighbourhood.

Mental illness =/= violent piece of shit and vice-versa.

He belongs behind bars for killing someone for the colour of their skin. For harassing POC before that. For abusing partners before that. For if not killing, certainly harassing and beating more POC after this. For all the fucking people in the world that have learnt there is no consequence to killing black boys in Florida. Not because of mental health we know shit all about.

Ally S
11 years ago

Sadly, it was only a matter of time before the ableism started to roll into this thread. >_>

hrovitnir
11 years ago

It’s so frustrating to see once you start noticing because you basically can’t have a discussion about awful people without a comment like that, usually a few in. Just… no? Come on now, can we all learn some time soon?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

What’s extra frustrating about it is that people don’t seem to realize that they’re letting the person they’re calling mentally ill off the hook. Zimmerman did not suffer a psychotic break. He was aware of what he was doing. It was a choice, and he could have chosen differently. People who would not qualify for any DSM diagnosis kill people all the time, and racists don’t feel guilt about killing POC because they’re fucking racists.