In a disgusting if not surprising development, George Zimmerman has been found not guilty of killing Trayvon Martin. For coverage, see here.
Discuss, post links, etc below.
EDIT: This is a troll-free thread. If you’re coming here to gloat over the verdict, to use the verdict as an excuse to trash women or feminism, or post racist garbage, don’t. If you want to argue that the verdict was just and/or we live in a post-racial society, go somewhere else. None of us are in the mood for that bullshit.
Argenti: I’m sorry. I’m bad at that, I have to stop and think (often to recast pronouns) and I failed you. mea culpa.
Joe, do you know what de facto means? When you say the jury had to come to that verdict, you are saying that the conclusion they reached was the only one they could have reached.
Oddly enough, they weren’t unanimous on it, and there was some convincing to be done (JurorB37 seems to have had a lot to do with that). Stand your ground doesn’t, in fact, give a blanket right to kill people; if you initiated the conflict. That is a judgement call on the part of the jury.
So the inevitable conclusion you seem to think is the case, isn’t. Which is why you are de facto (no matter what your personal opinion on the case may be: this is about your public opinions) you are approving of their decision.
Okay, time for Joe to take a time-out.
“And you are, de facto, supporting the way this played out. Funny that.”
No, wrong. I never said I “supported” the result.
”Joe, do you know what de facto means? When you say the jury had to come to that verdict, you are saying that the conclusion they reached was the only one they could have reached.”
It’s Florida Law, and the judge’s instructions to the jury that makes it inevitable.
Here, this (thanks to whoever posted this link earlier on) provides both the law and the judge’s remarks to the jury:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/trayvon-martin-and-the-irony-of-american-justice/277782/
Quoted from the article: “Effectively, I can bait you into a fight and if I start losing I can can legally kill you, provided I “believe” myself to be subject to “great bodily harm.” It is then the state’s job to prove — beyond a reasonable doubt — that I either did not actually fear for my life, or my fear was unreasonable.”
^^^
Let me spare you further unfounded speculation about my opinion, Pecunium:
It is my opinion that, a law which allows someone to go out and start a fight and then plead self-defence^^^ is a BAD law.
Also, I think the coppers screwed up very badly on this case by failing to hold Z for any length of time after the killing, and afaik losing key evidence in the process (clothing improperly stored?), which then further hampered the prosecution at trial.
As I understand it, the coppers claimed they did this because of Florida’s Stand Your Ground law?… again, if that’s a ‘legit’ consequence of this law, I think it’s bad law.
And, I think if Z had been a black man, there’s no way in hell he’d have been released like that, and I think it’s just one instance of racism in Florida (and the US) law enforcement.
Joe: did you not read David’s post to you?
Go. Away.
Thanks pecunium.
In pretty much unrelated things (other than that pecunium’s inbox is host to this and that) I’m probably going to be scarce tonight. I need a break from life. Please keep the trolls chewy in case I decide I’m up for playing with them?
Yes I did read it Hellkell, thanks for asking.
Too bad you don’t understand no one cares what you think. No one needs your frothing woo on this thread.
”Too bad you don’t understand no one cares what you think. No one needs your frothing woo on this thread.”
Pecunium cared enough to try and tell me what he imagined my opinion is. So I corrected him on that.
Let it go asshole, and take yourself with it.
Pecunium replied because we both hate you to a degree that makes ignoring your shit more difficult than responding and proving you wrong. You’re too wrong to have your wrongness go unchecked.
(And pecunium is, of course, able to correct me here, but I’m fairly sure he hates you more than I do and I REALLY FUCKING HATE YOU)
So, Argenti, I think:
– Florida’s self-defence and stand your ground law, is bad law. And Florida’s cops showed racist bias in releasing Z on the night he killed T.
But you think I’m wrong about that? Really?
Stop trying to get the last word, Joe.
Are you this repellent offline after being told to take a hike?
”Pecunium replied because we both hate you to a degree that makes ignoring your shit more difficult than responding and proving you wrong. You’re too wrong to have your wrongness go unchecked.
(And pecunium is, of course, able to correct me here, but I’m fairly sure he hates you more than I do and I REALLY FUCKING HATE YOU)”
It’s kind of mind boggling that you can bring yourself to HATE someone that you’ve never met, don’t know, and who has never done you and yours any harm, nor wished you any ill.
Not that I’m surprised. It’s just kinda …. what the? for me.
Have you MET yourself?
“Have you MET yourself?”
First post of yours I’ve liked. It has a Zen Koan quality to it. XD
Joe, you’ve come here and done nothing but tell us what fools we are and basically showed your ass over and over, and now you want to what? Be one of the gang? Fuck off.
This is your fetch. Stop trying to make fetch happen.
“Joe, you’ve come here and done nothing but tell us what fools we are and basically showed your ass over and over, and now you want to what? Be one of the gang? Fuck off.
This is your fetch. Stop trying to make fetch happen.”
lol, no, I don’t want to ”be one of the gang”.
Just sayin’ how strange it is to me that someone would be able to work themselves up to HATE someone for…. disagreeing (or in this instance, broadly agreeing) on the internet.
Props for the Mean Girls reference tho’. Good movie.
Oh fuck has he met himself. Does he remember lecturing me for quite awhile on how trans* people are doing ourselves (that feels weird) a disservice using labels? That labels just support Marxism?
Does he remember perpetuating stereotypes and negative opinions on me and mine!?
And then there was the time you said I must not care about the men I know who’ve committed suicide because I encourage programs that will make it easier for men to seek help. (The one I was closet to would’ve been 24 the other day…)
Your wrongness this time? Misinterpreting what I said about guns in waistbands and gun safeties.
Now for the have you met your horrible, bigoted, obnoxious, pompous self?
Oh no, it wasn’t the broadly disagreeing Joe. It was telling me I don’t care about the dead sibling of someone I love…the kid I helped show the ropes to (literally at times) at stage crew…one of the sweetest most compassionate people I have ever met…
Telling me I don’t care because I want to help men like him?
No Joe. That, and your ivory tower safety to lecture on Marxism and trans* labels when it doesn’t remotely affect you.
Joe, you’re not welcome in this thread. Move on.
Joe, you hold repellent views and we can’t stand you. That you don’t get why speaks volumes about you.
”Oh fuck has he met himself. Does he remember lecturing me for quite awhile on how trans* people are doing ourselves (that feels weird) a disservice using labels? ”
You mean the personal pronoun thing? Do you remember me admitting that I was wrong about that? Which is why I apologised to you upthread for forgetting to use the correct one for you.
(I actually forgot who you are, as well as forgetting the pronoun thing. You all have cat avatars apart from Pecunium who is a mushroom… so I tend to get mixed up, not to mention I don’t really think much about Boobzers, full stop unless I’m posting on here)
”Does he remember perpetuating stereotypes and negative opinions on me and mine!?”
I have no idea what you’re talking about here^^.
”And then there was the time you said I must not care about the men I know who’ve committed suicide because I encourage programs that will make it easier for men to seek help. (The one I was closet to would’ve been 24 the other day…)”
And I’m sure I never said that. Almost certainly one of the many 2 + 2 = 5 leaps of assumption that a lot of Boobzers like to make (about me).
”Your wrongness this time? Misinterpreting what I said about guns in waistbands and gun safeties.”
Except I didn’t “misinterpret” anything, I just provided a simple fact.
”Now for the have you met your horrible, bigoted, obnoxious, pompous self?”
lol
Re: suicide: review this page — http://manboobz.com/2013/05/05/thread-for-hostile-visitors-to-endlessly-rehash-the-issues-they-have-with-feminist-research-or-whatever/comment-page-7/ and then check out this one where I explained why I lost it at you — http://manboobz.com/2013/05/05/thread-for-hostile-visitors-to-endlessly-rehash-the-issues-they-have-with-feminist-research-or-whatever/comment-page-9/
1) they’re the same thing
2) apologizing to me doesn’t undo the hurt that shit like “you don’t get to label yourself” causes
3) apologies do not get de facto accepted
3b) I still think you’re an asshole for it, and I have every right to
——
Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, my Google fu is rusty, had a touch of trouble finding those links.
o_O
Bizarre opinions, bizarre opinions everywhere.