In a disgusting if not surprising development, George Zimmerman has been found not guilty of killing Trayvon Martin. For coverage, see here.
Discuss, post links, etc below.
EDIT: This is a troll-free thread. If you’re coming here to gloat over the verdict, to use the verdict as an excuse to trash women or feminism, or post racist garbage, don’t. If you want to argue that the verdict was just and/or we live in a post-racial society, go somewhere else. None of us are in the mood for that bullshit.
I’m thinking this thread should be an asshole-free zone.
“An officer found his weapon, a black Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm semi-automatic pistol, in a HOLSTER placed on his waistband.”
The PF-9 (has no external safety) & is double-action only, which means it has a stiff trigger pull more like a double-action revolver. In a holster, where the trigger is covered, it cannot fire by mistake. i.e. the gun and the manner in which Z carried it comply with recieved official wisdom on concealed carry.
These facts are relevant to discussion of the case, because you will read lots of arguments about it that work from the premise of:
”because Z had the safety catch off, then X”
or
”he could not have had time to take the safety off, so Y”
– all such arguments are based on a totally false premise, because – there is no such catch on that gun.
NO TROLLS IN THE ZIMMERMAN THREAD. We already established this.
You ‘ll note that all I have done is contribute a relevant fact to the discussion.
If you consider that “trolling”?
?????
Joe, we’re going off your previous work. If that is any indication, you’ll be in rare form shortly.
Have you suddenly become a non-asshole?
Also related to the thread: Zimmerman, and it seems his entire family, have gone into hiding following multiple death threats.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/zimmermans-parents-hiding-enormous-amount-death-threats-abc/story?id=19670456#.UeXLTqyTVXs
”Somehow, Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin because he felt his life was in danger, but Martin wasn’t justified in fighting Zimmerman (not only was Martin justified in feeling his life was in danger, but the result shows his life *was* in danger). ”
1) Trayvon was not on trial, Z was.
2) afaik, from reading up on Florida’s self defence statute (which is what Z’s defence relied on) / stand your ground law (relevant given the judges summing up), both Z and T could have genuinely felt their lives were in danger, and both could have been acting in self defence…… and the verdict on Z, according to Florida law would have been the same.
should read: ” both could have felt they were acting in self defence”
Joe, on a topic like this, there is literally not a single person here who wants to hear from you. Go away.
Also, sometimes I really love the Bay Area.
https://twitter.com/AdamInOakland/status/356883660798058497/photo/1
Didn’t I tell you to kindly fuck off already Joe? That still stands.
“1) Trayvon was not on trial, Z was.”
No fucking shit Sherlock, dead people don’t stand trial!
And the lack of safety is irrelevant to whether he could get a gun out of a holster with someone on top of him hitting his head hard enough that he feared for his life. Ever been in fear of your life Joe? Logical thought goes to hell in a hand basket real fast.
Also, knock off the initials, you are not buddy buddy with either of them. Further, just listen to Cassandra and go away.
Joe, give it a rest. We’re not arguing about the verdict here. If you want to argue about it, go elsewhere.
Joe, you ignorant fuck:
I didn’t say anything about him needing a safety. I said that if he was carrying at his waist (i.e. a kidney carry holster, the most convenient way to carry concealed) and he was in a ground-game scrambling fight (as he claimed) and unable to break the hold (as his MMA training should have taught him to do), then reaching under his body to get the pistol wasn’t possible.
A far cry from, “he couldn’t get it out and clear the safety, yadda-yadda-yadda”.
In the past… lessee… 25 years I’ve owned a pistol, and the 16 years I spent in the army (qualified expert with said pistol, even though the M9 is a piece of shit), I got a lot of practice at both that style of hand to hand (because US Army combatives are based on it), and I spent a lot of time with pistols.
Based on his story, and the presented evidence (that very report you cited, in fact) and these photos: Zimmerman’s jacket, after he was, “on his back in the grass, struggling for his life” and, Zimmerman’s hands, after that same struggle
Based on all of that, my expert opinion is he didn’t have his piece in the holster when he approached Trayvon Martin. I also think he was lying about the fight.
Joe: 1) Trayvon was not on trial, Z was.
Why is that? Oh right, because Zimmerman is the only one left standing. He was also the person who initiated the chain of events.
Dave: I see you smacked him down, Ok. I’ll let it be.
@David – I wasn’t arguing about the verdict either. I was responding to something Argenti said (re. the pistol), then I was commenting on Florida’s law and so on… I did, in fact, read your preamble to this thread.
@Pecunium – I wasn’t responding to you. I hadn’t seen or read any of your posts in this thread up until now.
I was responding to Argenti’s post (which I quoted) where she said something about Z’s gun having a safety, that is all.
“Why is that? Oh right, because Zimmerman is the only one left standing. He was also the person who initiated the chain of events.”
Yep. That’s an inherent flaw in all murder trials, there’s no way of getting victim’s POV.
I was kinda surprised there wasn’t CCTV footage of that night, but that’s probably because I live in a country with more CCTV cameras than people.
I wasn’t responding to you. I hadn’t seen or read any of your posts in this thread up until now.
How convenient, because she was talking to/about me.
Yep. That’s an inherent flaw in all murder trials, there’s no way of getting victim’s POV.
And you are, de facto, supporting the way this played out. Funny that.
Joe, what part of “go away” do you not understand? Nobody wants to hear your opinion on any aspect of this case.
”How convenient, because she was talking to/about me. ”
Ok, well, I didn’t read that far back.
”And you are, de facto, supporting the way this played out. Funny that.”
Nope, but I’m totally unsurprised that you’d make that enormous assumption.
“where she said” // “because she was”
Really guys? The last thing I need today is this shit. It’s ze, and I know you both know that. (Pecunium, check your email, I REALLY do not need this today)
And yes, I noted that if there was a safety, it had to be off already, learn to infer.
*twhacks the thread with an androgyny stick*
Come on people!
Sorry Argenti, my bad.
Joe, what part of “fuck off, go away” do you not understand?
Thank you.
auggziliary — not that I’ve noticed 🙂