I‘ve been traveling, so I’m a bit late getting to the whole “Don’t Be That Girl” poster controversy in Edmonton. For those of you who don’t already know all about it: A group called Men’s Rights Edmonton, closely associated with our favorite Men’s Rights hate site A Voice for Men, has been putting up some pretty obnoxious posters parodying an anti-rape poster campaign called “Don’t Be That Guy,” turning the anti-date rape message into one that targets alleged false accusers of rape.
Salon’s Mary Elizabeth Williams has a pretty good dissection of the whole thing here. As she notes, one of the biggest problems with the “Don’t Be That Girl” posters is
the idiotic defensive assumption that [the original “Don’t Be That Guy”] campaign expressly created to educate men and women about consent merits a hateful, finger-pointing response. And it makes the classic presumption that getting drunk, hooking up and then crying rape is a standard chick operating procedure — an idea that is based, by the way, on no solid statistical evidence.
That’s as good as far as it goes, but I would go a bit further:
I don’t think that MRAs are really concerned about false accusations. If they were, they would be working with groups like the Innocence Project that actually help men (and women) who have been wrongly convicted for crimes they didn’t commit.
No, it seems to me that what they’re really worried about is true accusations.
MRAs, with these posters, and with their endless whinging about the alleged complexities of sexual consent, are trying to push back against the date rape awareness campaigns of the last several decades. MRAs and PUAs like to pretend that consent is a complicated and weirdly arbitrary thing — something that women decide to bestow or not to bestow on a whim, and that women sometimes like to retract after the fact.
Feminists say that whenever there is a question about whether or not you have consent, you need to stop and ask. MRAs and PUAs pretend that this somehow means the death of spontaneous sex if not all sex altogether.
Ironically, for all their complaining about the allegedly blurry line between consent and non-consent, many MRAs and PUAs want to keep that line as blurry as possible. But unlike feminists, who want the blurriness to be resolved before anything happens, most MRAs and PUAs seem to want “blurry” to count as “yes.” That is, unless a woman is shouting no, guys are good to go, and if a woman later says she was raped, it’s because she’s “That Girl” and she’s arbitrarily decided to revoke her consent after the fact.
That’s what’s so insidious about the “That Girl” poster campaign.
And that’s why those responding to it should point out the history of the people sponsoring the campaign. Men’s Rights Edmonton and its spokesperson, Karen Straughan (Girl Writes What) are both closely connected with A Voice for Men, which is actively helping coordinate MRA activism around the issue.
So it’s worth pointing out what A Voice for Men has previously posted about rape — and perhaps putting some of these things on posters.
AVFM founder and publisher Paul Elam blames date rape on its victims, writing in one notorious post — which regular readers here will no doubt remember — that women who are raped after drinking and going home with a man are “begging” to be raped:
I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks … paying their bar tab with the pussy pass. And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the “victims” of rape.
But are these women asking to get raped?
In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.
They are freaking begging for it.
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.
Elam has also said that if he is ever on a jury in a rape case he will vote to acquit even if there is clear evidence that the accused is guilty, and he has urged other men to similarly “nullify.” Here is his exact quote:
Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.
The post of his in which this quote appeared is now missing from the AVFM site, but he has confirmed he’s said this elsewhere on the site. [EDIT: I’ve been informed that the original post is also available via the Wayback Machine here.]
Meanwhile, AVFM Editor in Chief John Hembling takes a certain pride in his callousness towards rape victims, and has gone so far as to make several videos in which he’s announced that he doesn’t care about rape, and that if he ever sees anyone being raped, he will simply walk on by. (You can find excerpts of both vidoes here.)
There are many other examples of the site’s utter contempt for rape victims, but perhaps the most telling is the site’s use of the term “rapetard” to describe people who take the issue of rape seriously.
The people behind the Don’t Be That Girl posters claim that they’re merely trying to protect innocent men from false accusers. Their real agenda is much more insidious than that.
I admit I’d like to see Owly turn into a woman, as long as he tried sitting on a corner and crying to get things.
LBT, sorry for your experience.
Also, your Sexuality prof was amazingly awful. That’s terrible.
RE: Galunadi
Yup. Thankfully, by that point I’d discovered Scarleteen and feminism. With the kind of ‘legit’ sex ed I got, it’s amazing I ever blundered into hubby’s pants.
@LBT
Good to hear, I assumed you had put it behind you, just making sure you know there are thankfully at least a few places for advice/help/whatever. I agree we should have more for men though.
And dude… I remember thinking like that professor of yours when I was seriously, like, TEN. I remember talking about a friend of mine about if a woman can rape a man (why, I have no friggin’ idea, but I remember talking about it). We understood what a man raping someone would look like, but couldn’t figure out how a woman would do it… after a while we decided that there probably was a way a woman could indeed rape someone. We were CHILDREN and we figured that out!!
Again, how the hell that came up at such an age I have no clue.
*Correction, talking WITH a friend
@Criticaldragon1177 We would call it “What Women Want” or “Jack and Jill” or “Sorority Boys” or “White Chicks” or “Big Momma’s House” or…
@auggziliary
Yeah, I have been at the other end of her “You must stalk me because you remember things” assertions. She’s not very good at responding to criticism, and when faced with her own stupidity, she resorts to petty rhetorical ploys or veiled insults. It’s almost a relief whenever you see her take center stage, because you know that something embarrassing is about to happen for the MRM.
What they are saying is, “DO be that girl–who deserves to be raped and humiliated.”
@LBT: That’s horrible! And from a sexuality prof? Our society has ingrained this “men want sex all the time” mentality, and the harm it does can be hard to gauge, since we’ve also ingrained the “men don’t talk about feelings” bullshit..
LBT, glad you found Scarleteen, feminism and hubby 🙂
Kamilla, that or “look, chick, we know you’re lying. Shut up already.
canuk_with_pluck, “Our society has ingrained this “men want sex all the time” mentality, and the harm it does can be hard to gauge, since we’ve also ingrained the “men don’t talk about feelings” bullshit..”
Ugh, yes. The stupid idea that there’s something wrong with you or you aren’t a ‘real man’ if you don’t want sex all the time with any woman. And of course, men not only can’t talk about their feelings, but men are ‘too rational’ to have all those silly emotions in the first place and men don’t talk as much as women
/barf
@Cthulhu’s Intern,
You wrote,
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@CriticalDragon: Wasn’t there that one episode of Johnny Bravo where Johnny pisses off some fortune teller and she turns him into a woman until he can see what it’s like? Now granted, Johnny isn’t really an MRA, just kind of a douche. A douche who gets beaten up all the time, but still a douche nonetheless. He gets annoyed by guys hitting on him all the time and notices that it’s happening to every woman around him. He then realizes that it’s wrong and then turns back into a guy. Of course, he does forget it instantly afterwards, but still, it’s quite a good episode.
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I haven’t seen that episode, but that does kind of sound like him.
I don’t even get the first one. The only thing I can read into it is that girls shouldn’t drink because then they become irresponsible. Why ‘especially when sex is involved’ though? It’s just bizarre. The only thing I know for sure is that it’s offensive.
@Galunadi: I’ll never forget the first time I saw my father cry. I was 17, and his aunt/mother had died. She was his mother’s sister, who pretty much sacrificed her entire life to raise her nieces and nephews with her sister, after my grandmother left an abusive marriage, in the 50’s no less. Those women are two of my strongest role models. (sorry, tangent). While my dad is pretty traditionally “masculine”, I just thank god he disregarded all that when it came to dealing with death. I know that sounds really weird, but….
@LBT
In response to my idea you wrote,
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Tempting a fantasy as it may be, believe you me, being a gender doesn’t mean you won’t be a misogynist.
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True, but if one of these male MRA sexist pigs was suddenly transformed into a women, they would instantly be put on the other side of misogynistic BS. There’s a reason why most misogynists are men. Given the nature of it, Men usually are not on the receiving end of it.
On the “men can’t be raped” idea – doensn’t it also tie in with the idea that a man can’t get an erection unless he wants sex, or rather, that if he actively doesn’t want sex or is afraid, he can’t get an erection. It might relate to the idea that a woman who orgasms during rape *obviously* enjoyed it, ergo wasn’t raped. The idea that physiological responses to stimuli =/= a person’s emotional state or desires never seems to get through – though you could bet your life that the people arguing this wouldn’t quibble over the fact of penis-owners getting erections unexpectedly and when they sure as hell didn’t want them.
Critical Dragon…How about Suddenly Susan?
Dave, thank you so much for this. These are the asshats who (plan to) counterprotest TBTN and SW every fucking year. So much wrong with them I can’t even begin. But here is a poster an Edmonton feminist made. I thought it was worth sharing. This is what Men’s Issues Activists *should* be doing.
https://www.facebook.com/she1who1controls1the1wind1and1stars/posts/10201510159186490
Is there any other link for that poster, Shaun? It’s only for Facebook members.
canuck_with_pluck, not weird. I’m glad he allowed himself to grieve and that you got to see it (not that your grandma’s sister died, but that he showed you a healthy/honest response to it). I think the men can’t have/express/discuss emotions is a really harmful idea. It helps to see someone not buy into that.
Not only is the ideology behind the posters repulsive, they don’t even make sense. The first one comes across as “don’t drink” rather than “don’t be a false rape accuser like most women are, you’re all bitches, shut up and die” they way they intended.
Apparently there’s something about being an MRA that renders people incapable of using language in an effective way.
Like one of the commenters upthread, I expect this from male MRAs but I’m still trying to wrap my head around the female rape apologists.
Sunshine Mary at http://www.sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com has had a number of posts about “false rape” lately. She’s also suggested that real rapists be required to marry their victims. From a post last week:
I have a better solution: pressure the legislature to overturn marital rape laws and make fornication a criminal offense for both men and women. The punishment? You have to marry
the one you fornicated with. You break it, you bought it, buddy.
There, I just cleared 95% of the sexual assault cases off the court docket.
Men like to blame women for everything. That’s cool, no problem, we’re pretty bad. Then again, I don’t see many Christian men calling for the return of Deuteronomy 22: 28-29. I wonder why that is.
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.
Sorry, I shared it on my page, it’s a prototype she came up with.
CassandraSays, “Apparently there’s something about being an MRA that renders people incapable of using language in an effective way.”
Well, they can’t use logic effectively so why not add language to the list? 🙂
JustJulia, Holy Monkey, how does forcing a woman to marry an abuser clear the docket? Does she have an explanation? My logic centers fried earlier today about the tampon seizure in Texas and I haven’t managed a hard reboot yet.