I‘ve been traveling, so I’m a bit late getting to the whole “Don’t Be That Girl” poster controversy in Edmonton. For those of you who don’t already know all about it: A group called Men’s Rights Edmonton, closely associated with our favorite Men’s Rights hate site A Voice for Men, has been putting up some pretty obnoxious posters parodying an anti-rape poster campaign called “Don’t Be That Guy,” turning the anti-date rape message into one that targets alleged false accusers of rape.
Salon’s Mary Elizabeth Williams has a pretty good dissection of the whole thing here. As she notes, one of the biggest problems with the “Don’t Be That Girl” posters is
the idiotic defensive assumption that [the original “Don’t Be That Guy”] campaign expressly created to educate men and women about consent merits a hateful, finger-pointing response. And it makes the classic presumption that getting drunk, hooking up and then crying rape is a standard chick operating procedure — an idea that is based, by the way, on no solid statistical evidence.
That’s as good as far as it goes, but I would go a bit further:
I don’t think that MRAs are really concerned about false accusations. If they were, they would be working with groups like the Innocence Project that actually help men (and women) who have been wrongly convicted for crimes they didn’t commit.
No, it seems to me that what they’re really worried about is true accusations.
MRAs, with these posters, and with their endless whinging about the alleged complexities of sexual consent, are trying to push back against the date rape awareness campaigns of the last several decades. MRAs and PUAs like to pretend that consent is a complicated and weirdly arbitrary thing — something that women decide to bestow or not to bestow on a whim, and that women sometimes like to retract after the fact.
Feminists say that whenever there is a question about whether or not you have consent, you need to stop and ask. MRAs and PUAs pretend that this somehow means the death of spontaneous sex if not all sex altogether.
Ironically, for all their complaining about the allegedly blurry line between consent and non-consent, many MRAs and PUAs want to keep that line as blurry as possible. But unlike feminists, who want the blurriness to be resolved before anything happens, most MRAs and PUAs seem to want “blurry” to count as “yes.” That is, unless a woman is shouting no, guys are good to go, and if a woman later says she was raped, it’s because she’s “That Girl” and she’s arbitrarily decided to revoke her consent after the fact.
That’s what’s so insidious about the “That Girl” poster campaign.
And that’s why those responding to it should point out the history of the people sponsoring the campaign. Men’s Rights Edmonton and its spokesperson, Karen Straughan (Girl Writes What) are both closely connected with A Voice for Men, which is actively helping coordinate MRA activism around the issue.
So it’s worth pointing out what A Voice for Men has previously posted about rape — and perhaps putting some of these things on posters.
AVFM founder and publisher Paul Elam blames date rape on its victims, writing in one notorious post — which regular readers here will no doubt remember — that women who are raped after drinking and going home with a man are “begging” to be raped:
I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks … paying their bar tab with the pussy pass. And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the “victims” of rape.
But are these women asking to get raped?
In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.
They are freaking begging for it.
Damn near demanding it.
And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.
Elam has also said that if he is ever on a jury in a rape case he will vote to acquit even if there is clear evidence that the accused is guilty, and he has urged other men to similarly “nullify.” Here is his exact quote:
Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.
The post of his in which this quote appeared is now missing from the AVFM site, but he has confirmed he’s said this elsewhere on the site. [EDIT: I’ve been informed that the original post is also available via the Wayback Machine here.]
Meanwhile, AVFM Editor in Chief John Hembling takes a certain pride in his callousness towards rape victims, and has gone so far as to make several videos in which he’s announced that he doesn’t care about rape, and that if he ever sees anyone being raped, he will simply walk on by. (You can find excerpts of both vidoes here.)
There are many other examples of the site’s utter contempt for rape victims, but perhaps the most telling is the site’s use of the term “rapetard” to describe people who take the issue of rape seriously.
The people behind the Don’t Be That Girl posters claim that they’re merely trying to protect innocent men from false accusers. Their real agenda is much more insidious than that.
@ bluecatbabe
I honestly don’t remember, since it was a long time ago and there was a lot of reading material, most of which is at my dad’s house now. Like you said, there are so many examples of judges openly advocating the idea that women habitually lie about rape that you’re kind of spoiled for choice if you go looking for horrible quotes.
My favorite police example of “wait, they did what?” was from the Met I believe? In which they picked up a victim who was naked when they got to her, gave her nothing but a blanket to cover up with, and drove her around for at least an hour like that (alone in a vehicle with male officers), apparently without it ever occurring to them that, you know, maybe that might make someone who’d just been raped feel a little uncomfortable.
jojo,
The only person responsible for a rape is the rapist.
Don’t blame the victim for a person deciding to harm them.
Don’t trot out that tired old shit here. It’s wrong, it’s sexist as hell and it makes me wish you’d shart yourself copiously, publicly and in white pants soon.
Stevie: why are you working overtime trying to defend the stance of the legal system?
The only person here who needs to do anything is you. And that thing is to fuck off.
Women have to take responsibility for everyone’s actions. Co-signing the fuck off.
Nope, women do not need to take responsibility for the actions of men. Sorry to break that to you.
Rapists aren’t confused about raping. They know what they’re doing. But when they front to the public, they want everyone to think it’s confusing to see a woman unconscious or too drunk to consent and wonder if they should try to have sex with her anyway. Why would you try to have sex with someone semi-conscious or unconscious? It’s almost as if these people, who claim it’s all so confusing, don’t understand that sex is something people consent to participate in. Maybe they think sex is something you do to another person? That’s fucked. They’re the ones who need a good stern talking to.
Do I need to repost my rapist’s love letters again? I swear, it’s like these assholes are determined not to understand how manipulators portray themselves.
cassandrakitty
I’m endeavouring to point out that gaining allies prepared to challenge the way things have been is a worthwhile endeavour; judges prepared to increase lenient sentences are, in my opinion, assets not liabilities. The Attorney General’s willingness to refer lenient sentences to the Court of Appeal, is, in my view, helpful to those who have been dreadfully abused by the failure of judges to sentence properly in the first place. The increase in custodial sentences agreed from 1st April onwards is, in my view, helpful to the people who have suffered sexual assaults.
You have made no comment on those changes or on what further changes you think would be helpful; I don’t know whether you believe that there is no possibility of constructive change, or whether you simply didn’t know that there have been changes. In either case it helps if you tell me…
@ Stevie
You realize that you’re basically having a conversation with yourself here, right, in which you respond to things that I didn’t say and then await (complete with condescending ellipses) answers within that same conversation that, as previously mentioned, you’re having with yourself? I have no idea why you’ve suddenly decided to adopt this method of engagement, since you previously seemed quite reasonable. Or how any of this logically springs from the conversation we were actually having in which you attempted to argue that false rape allegations were partially responsibly for the difficulty involved in convicting rapists and I pointed out the ways in which that assumption is based in rape culture.
In any case, you seem to have slipped into bad faith mode, so I’m really not interested in engaging with you any further. Bye now.
BTW, in case anyone is just jumping in to this conversation now, this is an example of what I mean by arguing in bad faith.
Notice that nobody has argued that judges who’re prepared to increase sentences are liabilities. This is veering rapidly into trollish behavior, and I’m not about to encourage it by engaging with it.
Stevie: WTF are you on about?
I don’t want allies whose support appears to be pretty damn conditional.
@ auggz
Wouldn’t it be awesome to have a manosphere-blocking app? Not having to listen to them wank on YouTube alone would be worth paying for.
(The reason I would like to have that app is that at one point I watched some videos about atheism, which resulted in seeing TAAs creepy smirking mug pop up in my recommended videos for a while. Thanks but no thanks, YouTube bots.)
I’ve only watched 2 anti-feminist videos. One in which an atheist dudebro argued against abortion and one in which GirlWritesWhat ranted about how evil feminists are for “demonizing nice guys”. Both were pretty terrible. I would rather eat burnt food than listen to their bullshit.
hellkell
I’ll take any allies acting in good faith that I can get; I don’t expect them to always come to the same conclusions as I do. And I spent my career in law so I look at what’s happening in our courts now, and that seems to me to be important; it isn’t only sexual assault/rape but also domestic violence and the impoverishment of women when relationships end.
Of course, people who have spent their careers in law can fail drastically in communicating with people who haven’t spent their careers in law, and I appear to have demonstrated that rather spectacularly, much to my regret.
Ally: You watched GirlWritesWhat? You’ve got a stronger stomach (and a longer attention span) than me.
After watching the video of that creepy giggly YouTube trolling MGTOW that was the subject of a recent post I got recommended manosphere video for several days. Right now it’s recommending the Amazing Atheist video and I don’t know why. Maybe because I search for Bill Maher clips from time to time?
I got TAA videos recommended for a while. It does stop eventually if you ignore them.
(Shame that doesn’t work on him in a more general sense.)
I don’t blame you. She is really smug and bigoted whenever she talks. The video literally made me feel uncomfortable. So uncomfortable that I felt compelled to wash out my mind with anime afterwards.
Oh, and this is probably a terrible suggestion for a lot of people, but I was reading MRA bullshit while tripping on acid once*, and their writing became a lot more tolerable. It also made me realize that MRAs are so terrible at theorizing that they make less sense than dripping walls, sudden perceptions of spatiotemporal distortion, and random monkey faces in wooden doors.
*Yes, I know I do weird things.
For a while I kept getting this one video recommendation that showed his creepy facial expression and the words “TUMBLR FEMINISTS”.
Allie S
God, this is going to show my age, but when Grace Slick sang ‘Feed your head’ as the last line of White Rabbit, I don’t think she envisaged you providing MRA rants into your brain as a nutritious meal. This has to stop!