Long Weekend Open Thread

Whoo, that Braless in Brazil page was really interesting! I must try that. Be nice if it wasn’t the underwires’ fault, since it’s so hard to find any bigger bras that don’t have them.

Weird but Cool! 🙂

Niters, SittieKitty!

I’m still reading it (the bits by the non-creeps).

“Have you met my husband, the rugby-playing pathologically jealous six-foot four bloke with organised crime connections who’s standing two feet behind your left ear, waving his own pistol and standing over a spade, a sack, a tarpaulin, several industrial grade meat cleavers and a five-gallon drum of cleaning fluid?”
To be honest, I’m a little concerned for your safety. And why are you on the polyamory panel, again?

Yeah cuz having multiple partners at once totally means taking any applicatants!

(Some one send me to bed)

Hai, giant open thread! So many comments I want to reply to, but instead I’m going to ramble about myself. Umm, basically this is super personal but I’m pretty used to sharing (hello, therapy since childhood). Just want to share with cool peoples, because I am sad.

I haven’t spoken to my father in quite a few years. Basically I’ve probably had depression since childhood with neither parent being quite able to care for me, was closer to my mother though she was worse and I was the emotional punching bag/counsellor from a young age. Dad and I had a good relationship, my parents split up when I was 13/14, that was fine because they hadn’t been happy together for a long time but I hated my mother’s partner, then my father got together with another woman who I looooved until she started literally making things up to get my in trouble (ie: reason I don’t trust people who are too “nice”), I was depressed and angry and we’d have huge fights where he’d scream and physically intimidate me and sometimes hit me (he is a big man); my mother was more wont to attack me but she is not as big.

I moved to another city away from my father when my mother did (that did not overall go great but I love this city), our relationship was a bit better by the time I was about 20 and he offered to pay for me to go to uni. Halfway through the year we had an argument and he pulled funding, I dropped out, we didn’t talk for a few years. Was pretty amazing actually. Dad called me out of the blue a few years later, we tentatively got back in touch, then after a year or so I rang him up to explain to him that it was totally unacceptable for him and his partner to have my siblings (via my mother and her partner) come to their house when they don’t know them and they knew their parents would not be OK with it, when visiting their sister (via my mother’s partner and his ex-wife… my father’s partner). I was the only one who spoke to “both sides” really so I brought it up. Turned into me taking Mum’s partner’s side and I’m so meeeean, he called me a cunt and hung up.

That was kind of hilarious. I had partitioned my feelings for my parents so much by that stage that it just amused me that he just managed to make himself look massively like the bad guy; I mean really? Calling your daughter a cunt for disagreeing with you? Until I found out that my father’s partner had told her daughter (my half-half sister) that I didn’t want her to see her siblings. That’s how nasty a person she is, hurting her young daughter to score points. I left this long, tearful message about how I couldn’t believe they’d stoop so low, it’s absolutely disgusting to bring children into this, I’m shocked. Never thought he’d listen to it, but clearly he did, and sent me an email about how they never did anything like that and I’m such a bitch and don’t write back. Pathetic. Anyway, not having anything to do with him and his family was wonderful for my brain.

So. Despite him sounding like an unrepentant arsehole, I actually have less baggage with my father than my mother, and I’m finally in a somewhat decent place mental health wise where I’d like to talk to him. So I’ve written this letter, complete with pictures of all our animals he’s never seen. Which has made me incredibly sad because (a) lots of looking at pictures of rats now passed and (b) he made me a photo album last time we were in contact, full of pictures of me at varying ages. He included a note in his scribbly handwriting saying I hope I liked it because he knows I hated lots of photos he took of me, and he didn’t write any notes by the photos because “[he’s] bound to fuck that up”. That made me so so sad at the time, and still does.

He came from an abusive upbringing and honestly cannot see what hurt me: he wanted to show he loved me with the album, and was so afraid I would hate it. I didn’t know how to express what it meant to me at the time. The fucked up part of my childhood was the feeling of trusting people then having that crushed, rinse and repeat, as it got harder and harder to trust so hurt more every time. So now saying nice things to people feels painfully vulnerable. Also why I love the internet, because I can be nice in text. 😀

That’s about as succinct as I can make that, sorry.

Yeah… we talked about en passant here. I have to say that being tired (this is my second night awake until dawn with this little fuckmuppet), and knowing the thread is going to get locked any minute now, did make me a little more colorful in my language than I normally am.

Of course he did engage in lots of passive aggressive shit, and called me names; but really, it was that shit (and it gets worse, with that shit: he gaslit how it went down: If I’d not pulled a “brandon” and gone back through the first 600 comments to make a reply I’d have missed it), which really pissed me off.

Of course he thinks its that we don’t like his “reasonable” suggestions because we hate men, and want to make them all into social eunuchs, or something.

He really is arguing that what is being protested now isn’t really harassment, because the women are too sensitive, and they don’t protest enough, and men need to be able to tell them when they have drawn the lines too far.

Which, of course, he thinks has already happened.

@LBT:

I have access to my normal hard drive from tomorrow on. If you have an e-mail, I can scour it for survival ressources? I would also heartily, heartily – HEARTILY – recommend the book called “Vagabonding”, by Rolf Potts. It’s probably even more useful for you, since it’s quite American-centric – it comes with numbers to call, everything. Just get it.

I have an e-mail, which is Fibinaut at g of mail. So poke me there if you want me to rustle through a few terrabytes for some books on surviving. It would not be a bother, as I need to catalogue it anyway.

——

@Argenti Aetheri:

DK.
Denmark is DK, for the Danish Kingdom – or Danske Kongerige, which is the official name for our little spot of dirt on the map.

Country codes tend toward favoring the first few letters of the country in question name in the most commonly spoken language.

(DE, US, DK )

——–

@pecunium.

Las palabras son fáciles, la sustancia es difícil.

Or, thank you for the compliment, but it’s funny how I often feel a little short of worthwhile things to add compared to people who seem to know bloody everything about everything.

Interestingly – on the conversation of acceptance that was root in – I’ve only finished the DK equivalent of High School plus some extra tidbits and electives due to a tangle with Life.

So…

@MordsithJ:

We’ll shun you for your trade school certifications! And by shun, I mean that in the same way Obsidian Files uses the word fungible, to refer to an entirely different activity and aspect of the situation at hand, and we will, in fact, welcome your presence with open arms. Huzzah for reasoned debate.

[:

——–

@Obsidian Files:
I don’t feel comfortable writing at you when you’re on moderation, but I’ve got it all scrounged up in Word anyway, so here goes.

If PUA was just fashion and confidence tips, nobody would be complaining about it, but it’s not. It is, at best, repackaged self-help tips wrapped up in a shitload of misogyny, pseudoscience and unhealthy attitudes.”
O: None of which, was illegal last time I checked…

vs

O: I suppose the phrase “Hell hath no fury like a Woman scorned” is alien to you, hmm? See, rejection is something that is really tilted toward guys; when it comes to Women, if they fancy you, and you don’t fancy them back, and you don’t acede to their demands, you’re gay, mean, got a small penis, you name it – and she can’t be upbraided for it because of “Woman’s perogative”. I’m telling you, I’ve experienced far and away more than my fair share of that kind of stuff and it really gets on your nerves after awhile, especially since sometimes, some of these very same Women will turnaround and complain about being harassed on the street, on the job, a school or whatever. ???

… Well, dude. None of that’s illegal, last time I checked. Why you getting so upset about it?
—

O: Not quite; remember, I said that *some* Women AND Men, have problems with certain guys “stepping out of their place”. And actually, I don’t know if you know this, but Game has quite a few male detractors, and for good reason: competition. In order to be successful at human mating, be you male or female, you first have to have the goods that the opposite sex wants/desires, and next, you have to putdown/eliminate competitors.

False.
If you possess the goods the other sex desires, you don’t need to put down competition – there is inherently less, or even no, competition. You only move into the stage of killing off or putting down adversaries if you don’t possess the means to get your goal by any other means. Any way an animal can avoid fighting it tends to take, because fighting is dangerous.

Humans have entire systems to circumvent fighting, for instance – shame, social talks, laws, empathy, so on…

But that’s the besides the point. That’s only assuming evolutionary psychology holds and everyone is fighting for the same mate. And that there are no other options but “fight”. Because survival of the fittest means murder, don’t’chaknow… (It doesn’t)

You’re saying that the only reason anyone objects to anything is because it might mean they can’t get laid.

This is what you said. That is your intentional stance on life. That’s your belief.

How miserly and sad is that? I think I’ll keep my moralizing, uncurbed vanity in check, because dear god, at least when people lend me their house for a week I don’t assume its because they want to sleep with me.

No, the reason I – personally – disparage large aspects of game was that I read the book The Game when I was 16, and it’s a book I still recommend to people. But that’s not “game” as it is these days, that’s not understanding anything or doing anything. Every single reference people make to PuA or Game or seduction these days – every, single, one I’ve seen! – makes me momentarily ill with the thought that that is something I could possibly have believed if I wasn’t lucky enough to be me and thus contractually obliged to always retain enough rhymes and snark to not really believe anything. Not to mention the arrogance helps. But only after the therapy.

And three years of believing everything is as terrible struggle is quite enough, thank you. On the list of things I have to curb, which isn’t my moralizing, is a tiny backwash at the back of my thoughts that tell me, occasionally, when I have moments of low self-esteem that I’m not being “dominant” enough.
That people won’t respect me if I ask for help.
That when someone asks me to do something, it’s because they’re trying to abuse me and sneak favours of off me. That the moments of joy other people have are somehow hollow because they’re not following the script of my head.

And that’s the world you choose to live in, by your own account? That is sad.

Turns out reading a lot of stuff can cure you of a lot of strange and silly beliefs – for which I am, by the way, thankful for this site – and this entire idea of Game as it’s presented these days is fucking atrocious.

Also, notice how many times when someone suggested something, you replied with “Ah, but some game teaches this”.

I counted at least 4.

so doesn’t that kind of hint that a lot of Game really is… basic and simple advice you’d give to some people, and the things we object to are all the other stuff? Like, oh, I don’t know, “It’s not lying, it’s flirting?” or “The best way to retain a mate is dread”.

Psfh.

You know nothing, Mr. Geological Process. Have a great day.

so doesn’t that kind of hint that a lot of Game really is… basic and simple advice you’d give to some people, and the things we object to are all the other stuff? Like, oh, I don’t know, “It’s not lying, it’s flirting?” or “The best way to retain a mate is dread”.

I’m really, really no expert in “game”, but from what I’ve seen it’s a mix of fairly atrocious stuff and completely sensible advice that could be given to men as well as women, straight as well as gay people. Like, an example off the top of my head, I read an interview with Neil Strauss where he said that if you wanna hook up with someone hot, you should open up a conversation by asking a question rather than giving a compliment, because a compliment might just fall flat, but a question will more easily lead to an engaging conversation. That really falls into the area of “sensible advice that could be given to anyone regardless of gender and orientation”. This whole idea of dressing in a way that attracts attention is probably fairly sensible advice as well – if more people notice you to start with, more people will probably come up and talk to you, crazy clothing provides a handy topic for a conversation with complete strangers and so on.

So from the little I’ve seen of PUA advice it seems like some of it is fairly sensible stuff, but then, those parts you could probably come across outside of PUA circles as well, like on Captain Awkward and other non-PUA advising sites.

Vader … teacups … can’t breathe

And I’m just going to jump in this thread on the last page because Holy hell is it long!

@Argenti Aertheri

My fish store guy in Pittsburgh bred piranhas if you need something to nibble on him. (They are ADORABLE when they’re small btw)

Those sound totally adorable! I should google pictures. I will go do that now.

@Cassandrasays

First they came for the reeking misogynist neckbeards,
but I did not speak up, for I had showered and shaved that week.
Then they came for the Warhammer players,
but I did not speak, for I did not partake of table-top gaming.
Then they came for the Magic players,
but I said nothing, because srsly, what a money-sink.
And when they came for the moderately-socially-skilled closet nerd,
there was no one left to speak for me.

Holey hell what is it with people changing that poem to fit their own shtick 🙁

@theseventhguest

It also talks about how / why underwires help if the bra is the right size, and are terrible if they are not.

I’m not sure why they help, but the moment I got myself meassured underwires were so much more comfy. (I was two whole cup sizes off!) I barley notice them. /rambling, but I love when bras fit right.

I’ve also got some of my own problems to vent/ beg for advice for, but I don’t want to be derailing to much, so if it doesn’t bother you guys I’ll do that? Anyway, if it’s a problem feel free to say and I won’t vent here.

Geeky misogynist 1: I’m tired of all these women invading our spaces. They’re just pretending to like sci fi stuff to impress men and get attention! Let’s be rude to them until they take the hint and go away.

Geeky misogynist 2: Look around here, there are barely any women. This sucks!

Geeky misogynist 1: I guess women just aren’t into geek culture.

Geeky misogynist 2: I blame feminists.

@anadiomene122

I was literally told by males in my department that to improve myself as a person and be “less selfish” I needed to 1) take up knitting, and 2) have a baby (I was told I’d see the error of my childish ways soon)…

GOd, that sucks 🙁 Jedi hugs if you want them.

Holy shit, that Popehat thread is amazing. Brandon 2.0 came right away with his bullshit–yet another dude who puts the onus on women to deal with their harassment, how novel. Haven’t gotten to Pecunium’s takedowns yet, but I’m getting the popcorn ready.

I bet he’s another one who thinks we needs guys like him as allies. No, I like my allies less invested in preserving the status quo, thanks.