Like a lot of people in the US of A, I am taking a long weekend. Posting may be a little light for a bit. So here’s an open thread for everyone else taking a long weekend. Or not. Use this thread for anything that’s not personal. Like misogyny, politics, kitties, you know the drill. (Though kitties are welcome in all threads, of course.)
I am hoping my long weekend turns out a bit better than that of the people in the Australian movie of that name from 1978, which I keep meaning to see. Apparently their little beach vacation doesn’t go so well, and they are attacked by … nature? At one point, I believe, they face off against an enraged dugong. (No, really.) The movie was recently remade, but apparently the remake wasn’t as good.
Stay tuned for more reviews of movies I haven’t seen and that I’m just giving vague impressions of based on things I’ve heard somewhere.
@ Ally
Pre de Provence is the most moisturizing soap I’ve tried. If you want moisturizing but still want to exfoliate the honey almond is perfect, and they all smell really good.
I like the Milk and the Linden PdP soaps. Sandalwood’s another fave.
There is another way to cut OF off–David, could you please put his ass back on mod? It’s not that I can’t handle his… uh, “truth,” I’m just sick of him.
@Hellkell:
“Funny, because I’m pretty sure trying to trick a woman into sex through game would be classified as An Embarrassment to The Corps. Guess you were absent that day.”
O: Wait, I thought we wasn’t making any appeal to authority? 😉
Anyway…please define “trick”?
“OK, you guys–I just tried to explain OF to Mr. HK, and got an incredulous “Men’s Right’s… WHAT?”
It was hilarious. Also, OF is an embarrassment to at least one Marine.”
O: *shrugss* And I’m the pride of at least three times as many, whom I actually know.
Are we done with the (utterly useless) shaming tactics?
@Pecunium:
“This is some primo-grade ignorance.”
O: How so? Please explain?
“If ignorance weren’t so easy to come by, you could bottle it and make a decent living from the sales.”
O: Who says I haven’t?
“Falconer: Don’t forget that everything about men and women will be used to prove the Theory of Game. It doesn’t matter why people get together, it’s gonna be because of some aspect that Game will solve for the dude who ain’t getting any.”
O: When have I ever asserted this?
“Game cannot fail, it can only be failed. If you think it’s not about the Principles of Game, then you just betray your lack of understanding.”
O: This is ridiculous. I’ve never made any such assertion.
@Cassandra:
“Did you just suggest that society should care how women feel about the sex they’re having, even if that means that sometimes some men will go unfucked? That’s misandry, that is.”
O: I think it’s an issue to think about. Consider what’s currently happening in both China and India…
O.
Yeah, he’s really boring when he’s not being creepy.
I like rose petal, honey almond, mint leaf, and neroli. Mr C loves verbena and lemongrass.
OF: I’m not trying appeal to anything I’m not. And it seems that every time I hit close to home, you bring up shaming as a deflection. It’s OK if you don’t wanna own your shit, just fuck off.
I got your number. It’s 800-CRY-BABY.
@LBT, you do not have to repay me in any art, housework, help with kids, or anything. When you’re here in Joplin, you are our guest and I don’t want anything in return except your company. I’m really excited about having you here, too. I think it will be fun to meet another manboobzer in real life.
You’ll even get to sleep in a bed instead of a couch here. My kids like sleeping in the same room because they get scared at night, so one of the twin sized Spiderman beds is always empty. My dad built it from scratch, too, so it’s made well.
re: bras
I think the ones with underwire are less comfortable, but they do lift things up better. I like the way the boxed Cross your Heart ones feel, but they make the Madonna cone effect. Now the Ahhh bras as seen on TV? Those are great. They are just like they describe on the infomercials.
@Obisidion
I doubt that. Besides, someone doesn’t have to ask in the exact words “May I insert my penis into your vagina?” They could instead say “You like that? Want me to keep going? Wanna get in the backseat/go back to my apartment?” Surely those incel guys can come up with different ways to ask that can keep the mood going.
That’s just a gendered stereotype. Yes some women are more nurturing and empathetic, like Counselor Troi from Star Trek. But others are more blunt and insensitive. Women are just as varied as men and non binaries.
That’s because people assume women are weak and non threatening. So a lecherous women is laughed at in the media and in real life. That’s really bad, because victims of women aren’t always taken seriously.
CassandraSays
I’ve seen that all too often. X_X
@auggziliary
Thanks for the suggestions, but regarding the hour glass shape, I’ll probably be satisfied with the bodily changes due to HRT, which also affects fat distribution. It should definitely have an effect because my torso already looks a bit curvy on the sides.
RE: auggziliary
I really wouldn’t know. Men’s groups mostly give me the impression that I’d be run out on a splintery rail if I tried to enter them.
I don’t really get what the big deal is. I had to figure out my gender in a vacuum, how I felt about it, and what I should do about it. It sucked, and I’d like it to get easier for everybody, but I managed to do it without being a huge dick. I was overdefensive and attempted to be macho for a while, and then slowly I got over it. The people who wanted to see me as a fag and a girl were going to insist no matter what I did.
Now I can cuddle and talk about feelings and cry if I’m upset, and I can just DO THAT, rather than flog myself over it. I like myself a lot more, and whaddaya know, turns out communicating honestly makes my sex life quite more awesome!
Someone once told me something I like to imagine I have taken to heart.
This person, fictional though it was, said this:
“You know? The best way to fake being popular and likable… is to be popular and likable”
What do people do… who want to be… with beautiful women?
Well.
First of all, they define “be with”. Merely be in the same room as? Talk to? Possess as a trophy? Have as a friend? Tenderly hold beneath moonlight shining on from above as waves lap against an enternal shore? When you say “Be with” do you mean “be in”, but you’re trying to be polite?
That kind of thing.
Then they take a breath and think about their motivations. Why do they want to be “be with” beautiful women? Is it to brag about it? Is it because it’s fun? Is it because you can have more good times with someone who is beautiful? Is it because they’re trying to prove themselves virile and powerfully male by subduing specially worthy prey in accordance to an ideal of beauty as a female ressource to be fought over by men? Is it because they want to dazzle “HB10” with their peacocky sparkles?
And then, having done all of that, this is the important bit:
They go out and find people they would describe as beautiful and interact with those people.
And that’s it.
Because in our world, it stops there. It’s… it’s the end at that point. Beauty is a good, wonderful thing that can add spark and charm to many a fantastic endeavor (And without a mug as devilishly handsome as mine, no one would appreciate my internet wit). That may have been a coy joke.
In your world, though, and this is why we consistently disparage you, you make beauty into some kind of resource. It sounds as if you speak of farming and raising beautiful people to be enjoyed like a fine vintage of wine. You speak of encounters with women as if they’re nary but flighty interchangeable things you pluck from and sip, then let go, based on some sense of their fleeting blush youth and grace.
That isn’t, really, as such, totally and completely bad.
It just makes everything else you say seem so… hollow. You don’t give a shit about anything else, man, and it shows. It’s fine if you don’t – go ahead – but don’t pretend that you do.
And, maybe, stop… Going at this entire thing as if beautiful people where a scarce resource a man must cleverly trick into bed by wit and charm and mental tricks. They’re not special prizes to be hunted down by the man with the bigger so and so and longer list of negs.
Women aren’t grapes. It’s fine to have standards, but do you see where those very standards turn into weird, confusing labyrinthine justifications? Women can do so and so! She can get laid on a one night stand! A man will never have valid enthusiastic consent unless he’s hot! Without blasting someone with negs, I don’t stand a chance! Online dating doesn’t work for men because they don’t get unsolicited messages (!) ! Feminists won’t tell me how to bang beautiful people!
Well… No. Beautiful people are *people*. You sleep with them the same way you sleep with everyone.
If you have standards – fine. That’s why you said to that girl “Hey, I’m not interested in sleeping with you”. Or, well, you said a hurtful variation thereof in a room full of people to showcase your dominance and put your friends (the fuckers!) in their place for daring to set you up with someone who didn’t tickle your fancy.
But don’t waste anyone’s type by pretending it’s anything more or less than it is:
You’re upset and angry that sometimes, people make choices that don’t involve you.
Come on.
Get over it.
Huh? I missed where LBT offered to pay people back in food/art, I’ll do your laptop for the fun of it, unless you want to use it as an excuse to write more IS (hey, maybe your trip will provide good material for M.D.’s wanderings…though I doubt you’ll run into wiggle dancing dinosaurs or horrorbeetles)
Speaking of horrorbeetles! I’ve pulled SIX random beetles out of here in <72 hours (finally caught the scone June bug this morning, it was sitting on the window screen and fell out with very little prodding, hilarious considering it'd been bouncing into all the shiny things in here for two days)
I’ve used the liquid as well. When I was 11, I remember using copious amounts of that because I felt that liquid soap wasn’t as effective because it was liquidy and not creamy like the other body wash I had been used to using. I was very, very wrong. >_>
@LBT:
“If assholes choose to use an asshole way to deal with something, that’s still not the problem of feminists.”
O: Yes, but Feminists are the main ones complaining. In light of that, and since they are Women themselves, it would be really nice if they could offer solutions for guys in this regard. I’m not even talking about everything from A to Z; just something.
“Equating PUA with all men doing their homework is a false equivalence. I mean, I’m trans, so am coming from a different place, but I had to figure out my gender and my feelings about it on my own. I didn’t need Game to do it.”
O: And that is to be commended, but clearly, judging by the sheer size and scope of the pickup community (most of whom does not have assholes within it, I might add), I would beg to differ.
Again: it’s all about making and offering a better mousetrap. The Feminists, by and large, have failed to do so.
“Gay rights movement. The Robert Bly circles. And that’s just sticking with the past fifty years or so.”
O: Indeed – and none of them dealing with the question of sociosexual relationship concerns and issues of straight Men – which was what I was talking about, and I think you knew that…
@Hellkell:
“Well, then. Women’s agency by any means necessary, and if you and your PUA crew of slimeballs don’t like it, lump it.”
O: And what is Malcom’s legacy, today? We all heard what happened to his grandson recently, right?
Moral of the story: you need allies to make things happen. If rape and street harassment is going to ne effectively handled and addressed, it will take all hands on deck to do it. You don’t have to like me, I don’t have to like you, but we both have an interest in addressing this. That’s the stuff of politics, Hellkell. It’s how things get done in the real world.
@Cassandra:
“Does anyone else find it really creepy when trolls make smiley faces at us? I think it’s the combination of the attempts to justify rapey behavior and the pretend friendliness. It’s like being smiled at by a shark.”
O: And here I was thinking you were big, bad and tough! I suppose all of your other tactics hasn’t worked, so now you’re resorting to the fainting couch move, hmm?
@Hellkell:
“Cassandra: it creeps me out too, and makes me wish there was a way to disable emoticons for trolls.”
O: I’m sure Dave could arrange it…
“There is another way to cut OF off–David, could you please put his ass back on mod? It’s not that I can’t handle his… uh, “truth,” I’m just sick of him.”
O: Translation: I can’t effectively deal with his replies, and none of my otherwise lowbrow tactics have any impact whatsoever…
But seriously, Hellkell, please let me ask you: WHY do you care so much, about what the seduction community does, or doesn’t do? You’re married; the PUAs pretty much stick to themselves and hangout in places where you pretty much have to go looking for them such as niteclubs and the like. What’s it to you?
I’m just really curious…
O.
No, dude, I didn’t miss that part, I live on a volcanic island, obsidian is a dime a dozen here, and, like I said, it’s cold and lifeless. It’s kind of shiny if you polish it a bit, but that’s about it.
I know that it comes from Volcanoes, OMG, so Manly but so does pumice, maybe you should call yourself that, it’s just as fitting.
Dude, are you always this tedious and annoying? Because if so I think we have the answer as to why pretty ladies won’t let you stick your cock in them.
(Even the ones for whom looks aren’t their primary consideration.)
…Married people don’t go to clubs?
I missed this at the time because I was, at best, skimming those tedious walls of text before I started skipping past them altogether. I had decided that I wasn’t gonna feed the troll anymore, but this one is pretty revealing, actually.
OF objects to the scandal of ugly women daring to talk to him as if he could possibly be even slightly interested in them. Not the behavior itself, it seems, as he thinks that it’s just a “mating strategy” so long as they haven’t committed the sin of being “God-awful ugly or old”.
Correspondingly, women should be totes delighted if an “attractive” man catcalls them, though it doesn’t seem that they should be permitted to establish what is “attractive” for the purposes of this discussion, nor should they be permitted to find catcalling offensive or disturbing just on its face.
The key is that because he doesn’t mind when women talk to him (so long as they are not “God-awful ugly or old” mind you) he finds it incomprehensible that women could find it bothersome when some entitled asshole forces his way into their day, no matter what said asshole looks like.
Nope. I’ll take exactly zero allies instead of fucknuts like you that have to be handheld into it. I don’t want people like you as allies. All you want is your asses kissed, or to be Boss of All. No, thank you.
Really? You fucking came here and no one invited you. So much for not having to go looking.
I think you guys are creepy and manipulative. I think you’re a bunch of rapist wannabees. I know you’re out there, and that’s enough reason to root you out like the slugs you are.
Actually I’d be happy to ignore them, but unfortunately they keep barging into feminist spaces and demanding that we stop everything else we’re doing and focus on creating a get-sex-with-women-who-aren’t-interested-quick plan for them.
Cassandra:
No, we stay home and shrivel up. We have to never go out in public again without the old ball and chain. /sarcasm
Yeah, and I haven’t been hit on by some wannabe PUA doofus since being married. If you believe that, I’ve got some swampland to sell you.
What do they do? Be disappointed. They aren’t entitled to sleep with beautiful women and the fact that these beautiful women don’t want to sleep with them is just life. Not giving them ideas that try to trick these women into thinking the guys are better for them/more attractive to them than they actually are is respecting women’s agency to have sex with whomever they choose.
Yes, you never said explicitly “These men are entitled to being with beautiful women.” But you did say it, that’s what that sentence above implies. It implies that these men should be able to get beautiful women if they want to.
So the answer is, literally, too fucking bad for those guys. Same with anyone else who wants to “get” people who aren’t attracted to them. Too fucking bad. You aren’t entitled to sex, to being with someone, and certainly aren’t entitled to being with a particular “type” of person. If you don’t get sex and you want it – that’s too bad for you. Deal with it. Don’t try to trick people into thinking you are what they want when you’re not. It’s incredibly manipulative and dishonest. And it’s where the idea of tricking women into sleeping with someone comes it. It’s literally the same as telling someone that you’re a wealthy millionaire who will marry someone if they sleep with you. It’s a lie. It’s a trick. It’s a shitty thing to do even if it’s not illegal. It makes you a shitty person.
Also, anyone else notice how completely fucked up it is that OF talked about women in terms of “value” – the more valuable sex regarding reproduction? A) Cissexism. B) People with uteruses aren’t commodities with price tags. People aren’t “valuable” in an objectification way. It’s a gross way to look at the world and only increases the idea that sex is a commodity that you can “purchase” with the right tricks.
@ hellkell
I’ve had PUAs pester me even after I waved my ring in their face. Who knew that was punishment for the crime of going out for drinks while married?
I’m still boggled at the insistence that
1) developing a method by which men get to have beautiful, hot women (in some unspecified capacity) is a pressing need in the world.
2) it’s the responsibility of feminists to develop it.
3) once it’s established, there will be no more problematic behaviour from men, because they’ll all be content and happy now that they’re nicely paired up with beautiful, hot women.
But it’s feminists who are irrational. Okay, then.
Now I’m picturing the signs that would be on the doors of bars and clubs in the PUA dream world.
NO MARRIED LADIES unless you’re looking for an affair and aren’t very picky.
MARRIED MEN WELCOME.
Ah! The dudes who think “I’m married” is no reason at all to stop. Raise your hands if you’ve heard “he doesn’t have to know” or something equally gross after a solid refusal.