Like a lot of people in the US of A, I am taking a long weekend. Posting may be a little light for a bit. So here’s an open thread for everyone else taking a long weekend. Or not. Use this thread for anything that’s not personal. Like misogyny, politics, kitties, you know the drill. (Though kitties are welcome in all threads, of course.)
I am hoping my long weekend turns out a bit better than that of the people in the Australian movie of that name from 1978, which I keep meaning to see. Apparently their little beach vacation doesn’t go so well, and they are attacked by … nature? At one point, I believe, they face off against an enraged dugong. (No, really.) The movie was recently remade, but apparently the remake wasn’t as good.
Stay tuned for more reviews of movies I haven’t seen and that I’m just giving vague impressions of based on things I’ve heard somewhere.
AS: Nope. And even if that’s what it actually meant, universalizing your personal experience is still nonsensical and arrogant.
AS: All of that is irrelevant. Regardless of what you intended to do, you still made her cry as a result of telling her straight up in front of everyone that you don’t find her sexually attractive. For many people, that’s the same as being called ugly even though you didn’t actually mean to say that. Your intent has very limited control over the expressed meaning of what you say.
AS.
Does anyone have any creep-be-gone handy?
So… here’s a NEW topic for this Open Thread! Body issues and wanting to change your body.
It’s sort of generally agreed in feminist circles that the fact that so many women diet all the time and want to lose weight is sad (although body autonomy and nobody has the right to shame anyone else for choosing to diet and all that, it’s still fairly generally agreed that it’s a sad thing that soooo many women diet aaaaall the time and are unhappy about their weight).
Now, I’ve never dieted, but I am a bit unhappy with the way my body naturally looks. I’m naturally thin and very feminine-looking, and it’s not that I feel ugly looking like that, but it doesn’t really feel like me. I’ve gone regularly to the gym since I was twenty-two, twenty-three or something, and achieved a slightly more muscular and flat-chested look, but it really takes a huge effort to grow much bigger than my natural state. However, I’m giving “big and strong and masculine” another go now with a personal trainer.
So… what’s the difference between me trying to change my body and the average woman’s dieting? Is there even a difference that makes my case somehow less tragic? I really don’t know. That I’m going against society’s ideals rather than following them? But I really don’t like the, quite often seen in “radical” or “alternative” circles, idea that you’re somehow more enlightened and a better person just because you’re going against the mainstream. There’s nothing wrong in itself with being mainstream! Is it that the average woman’s dieting is a sisyphos job that never ends? But I have no idea if I will ever reach a point where I feel that now I’m totally big and strong and masculine-looking enough! Maybe I’m just gonna feel too thin and too feminine forever…?
So this is actually something that bothers me… Maybe I should completely let go of the thought that there is something tragic in the first place with all these women dieting all the time. Maybe them doing that is completely fine. I seriously don’t know.
RE: Obsidian Files (out of curiosity, where does your name come from?)
that still doesn’t account for Millward’s nor OKTrends’ studies, which clearly show that Women respond to the most photogenic, handsome and “hot” guys.
That seems to be a highly subjective quantity, though. From what I recall, the two guys I know who succeeded in online dating, one of them caught his now-fiance’s interest by complimenting her Kaylee cosplay, and the other was one of a couple, and they met someone else together by sharing similar senses of humor (and she did find them both very pretty). Neither of them are ‘conventionally’ attractive, but the people they got together with obviously liked them.
I mean, I think Gregory Kieth is gorgeous, but I realize that someone else might just shrug. Also, the idea that on online dating, people are more likely to choose the people they find most attractive seems kind of a no-brainer to me.
In fact, the latter study showed that Women rated the vast majority of guys to be NOT attractive, resulting in them getting far fewer responses, if any at all.
Generally, don’t MOST people find only a minority of folks attractive? Especially ones they don’t know?
@Cassandra:
“I like this analogy. Their belief that feminists have somehow caused their dating woes is like the anti-vax belief that vaccines cause autism because…reasons, you can’t prove they don’t, shut up I’m going to do what I want even if it fucks things up for everyone else.”
O: Actually, this wouldn’t be a good analogy, because I’ve already given my full support toward rape prevention measures, anti-street harassment measures and the like. I support all of it.
What’s interesting to me is how so utterly ill-equipped Feminists and the like (which I consider all of you), and/or flippant in their casual, callous dismissal when it comes to awkward, clueless guys can or should do to meet and greet the ladies.
Fascinating, indeed…
O.
@Cassandra
Yup. Also, “I spent a hundred bucks to read some assholes lie about their sex lives and advocate rape and manipulation. Being the world’s deepest and most rational human being, there is no way I wasted money, so common sense, the nature of heterosexual relationships, basic human decency, and statistics showing that 20% of hookups are online must all be wrong and broken.”
CS:
Yes, evo-pysch loving glibertarians are in such short supply. What a second-rate mode of being all around.
LBT: If you’re coming near ATX, you have a place to stay.
If we want to broaden the convo from bras and trips, every color of NARS’ satin pencils is awesome sauce.
I’d say that I find less than 5% of the people around me attractive in a sexual way. There are lots of people who I think are attractive in general but who I don’t want to fuck – my not wanting to fuck someone doesn’t mean I think they’re ugly, I’m just really specific about what turns me on.
Lol.
Also, the analogy was that you are willing to pretend that somehow het women can hook up without het men, and that a large number of relationships don’t begin online, just to believe that some books that tell you they’re the ONLY WAY are actually the only way. That’s what makes you like a homeopathy patient.
@Dvar
I think what’s wrong is women feeling pressured into changing their body just for someone else’s sake. By contrast, diet and exercise for one’s own sake is completely benign.
Even as someone who is vehemently opposed to fat-shaming, I’m not very happy with the slight amount of extra fat around my legs and stomach. It has nothing to do with being pressured to conform to beauty norms or anything like that; it’s just not me. And it makes me feel dysphoric as well; my extra fat reminds me of the maleness of my body, and that’s because I’m used to having a masculine body that is slightly chubby.
@LBT Well, it takes a bit more than just the ground up peanuts to produce and stabilize, but because Mormons have a responsibility to stockpile food for the apocalypse, there are companies in Utah which produce some pretty amazing products at surprisingly low prices.
http://store.honeyvillegrain.com/powderedpeanutbuttercan.aspx#.Udh6LW143E0
You can certainly buy the stuff from REI, but it costs a lot more and tastes pretty much the same. Buy a can and a box of heavy duty ziplock bags to portion it out for ease of storage and you will still be ahead of the curve, cost wise.
Honeyville’s powdered eggs are pretty good as well, and even more convenient as they come in foil pouches in the can. Dried eggs and dried peanut butter are a pretty easy way to carry a lot of protein with you. So long as you can ensure access to a ready supply of fresh water on your way, you can stock up on the dehydrated and freeze dried and be way less burdened as you hike. Add dried fruit and some oatmeal and you can make it through even when there isn’t much in the way of shops.
WAH. Why the fuck should it interest you? You think Seneca Falls was about boner pleasing? Please show me where feminism is supposed to give a flying fuck about the poor dudes who can’t get laid.
@ hellkell
Look, someone wrote a song about how few shits we give about today’s boner-related whine.
I say we make it our theme.
RE: Argenti
Yeah, in my case, part of the trick is limiting myself to what I can carry… while still being versatile enough to cover a lot of different environments. (For instance, my laptop and drawing tablet are non-negotiable; I need to be able to sell my arts! Unfortunately, that also requires me take shit like an extra keyboard, because mine is broken. And now so is the flexy one I bought specifically for this trip.) It’s going to be a trick, for sure! My last stint of this in NZ, I was extremely heavily laden; here, I’m limited to a backpack that I can hump all over the country.
One more thing, my $100~120 hiking bag might be my best investment ever, everything I didn’t ship to Pittsburgh before I moved came with me in that. Used it for more than a few 3 mile uphill city trips, with a full set of bedding, 8lb mac, external keyboard, multiple days worth of clothing and whatnot, and it never bothered me any. I love the thing, totally worth every penny.
You might want an external frame if you plan to spend lots of time carrying lots of stuff, but mine is a lightweight internal frame and came with a camelpak (water pouch, they come in fairly large sizes and a lot have these tubes with bite to suck out water mouth pieces, I let mine get moldy like a dumb fuck)
And you prolly know this, but nalgene water bottle survive pretty much anything (like, folks at camp ran one over with a pickup truck, and when then didn’t break it, threw it off a cliff…they found it at the bottom scratched up but fine, and am of the opinion that everyone needs at least one!)
Only because they don’t work. If it weren’t for that pesky detail, GAME ON, LADIES.
Cassandra: I am totally down with that as a theme. Thank you, Jet.
gillyrosebee — thank you! I was trying to remember where I got that bag and it was REI!
LBT — what’s your laptop? If you can find a new keyboard for it I might be able to do the repair job. I can’t really offer you sleeping space (though I guess you could pitch here if you can deal with my father) but I can offer a laptop repair job. (I did the one on my mac, and it wasn’t nearly as hard as I expected)
Trader Joe’s Palak Paneer! I buy that stuff by the case and keep it in my emergency rations pantry (though it’s hard to keep it in my emergency rations pantry because I’m always in the mood for it)!!
It’s heavier, though, so if you have to pack your food in, I’d think it would be more of a treat than a menu constant.
@Ally, What you write sounds very sensible, but on the other hand, I don’t think it’s common to think that you’re dieting for someone else’s sake. Everyone I’ve met who diets say they do it for themselves, although I doubt they’d all be dieting if we didn’t live in a society that constantly pushes thinness. So where to draw the line between doing something for oneself and doing something for others/society’s sake?
RE: hellkell
ATX is my home city, yo! 😀 Whereabouts are you? I’m originally from the Oak Hill area, studied at UT!
RE: Dvarghundspossen
I see it as a difference in awareness. You KNOW what you’re doing and why; you’re mindful that you might not ever be satisfied with what you do, and you’re willing to acknowledge that and make steps to prevent you from falling down the rabbit hole.
I mean, back when I was first considering testosterone, I went through a LOT of soul-searching, trying to decide if I wanted it for the right reasons. Did I truly want the changes testosterone would bring, or was I just trying to look “like a man” without thinking what I actually wanted? I know folks who HAVE dieted safely, and are very happy with their results–but they were also careful and mindful about their reasons for doing so.
RE: gillyrosebee
I admit, my ED is kinda going D8 about powdered shit. I’ll think about it, okay?
@LBT:
My screen name, “Obsidian”, came from a fellow student of Game; he gave me the name because he felt that my nature/personality matched the volcanic glass that is its namesake; that, plus the fact that obsidian, the volcanic glass, is often (though not always) black in color, and so am I.;)
And the name stuck.
The “Files” part of it is actually the name of my blog, The Obsidian Files, which is a kind of chronicle of my life and times, along with other things and issues of interest to me, which largely surrounds Sexual Politics issues.
“That seems to be a highly subjective quantity, though. From what I recall, the two guys I know who succeeded in online dating, one of them caught his now-fiance’s interest by complimenting her Kaylee cosplay, and the other was one of a couple, and they met someone else together by sharing similar senses of humor (and she did find them both very pretty). Neither of them are ‘conventionally’ attractive, but the people they got together with obviously liked them.”
O: So, in a sense, a very real one, you are making my point. Thank you.
“I mean, I think Gregory Kieth is gorgeous, but I realize that someone else might just shrug. Also, the idea that on online dating, people are more likely to choose the people they find most attractive seems kind of a no-brainer to me.”
O: Right – it is a highly visual medium by nature, and that’s something a lot of people, guys especially, don’t seem to get or understand. The good thing is that because female attraction triggers aren’t so heavuly visually-weighted like it would be for a Man, IF a guy can get in front of a Woman and “show her what he’s got” in terms of his personality, intelligence, humor, body language, etc, he might have a fighting chance of winning her over. But none of that can really happen on the medium that is online dating. All you really have to go on is the pics – and let’s keep something else in mind, which is something both studies also noted:
Most Women will get quite a few messages from guys, completely unsolicited. The reasons why should go without saying, because guys are attracted to Women physically, moreso than the othe way around, all things being equal, of course. Put that together with the fact that the Women are the more valuable sex from a reproductive standpoint, and it makes sense as to why more guys would be messaging Women than vice versa. A Woman getting a sheer deluge of messages, you can and most likely will get lost in the shuffle. Not only that, but she can select the hottest looking guys from the pile of profile pics and you won’t even come up, and this can be true even for more :Plain Jane” looking gals, too. Add to this the fact that often, for many Women, putting up a profile is a way of boosting her self-esteem; she can confirm that many Men find her desirable, without ever having have to deal with them in real time. Just doing the simple math, it stands to reason that most guys just don’t have a real shot with online dating. Which is why I don’t advise most guys to even go there.
In fact, the latter study showed that Women rated the vast majority of guys to be NOT attractive, resulting in them getting far fewer responses, if any at all.
“Generally, don’t MOST people find only a minority of folks attractive? Especially ones they don’t know?”
O: Yes and no; some people are considered more universally attractive than others, and this is especially true when it comes to Men in the minds of many Women. It explains why there are so relatively few male models in comparison to female ones…
O.
RE: Argenti
I have an ENORMO aluminum water bottle that is quite light but could probably survive getting hit by a truck. I fully plan to take that with me. As for bags, I’ve gotten two big backpacks from garage sales; I get to choose which one’s best!
The laptop’s a Dell Inspiron 1300. If you can save the poor thing, more power to you; I was a dumb twit and pulled off some of the keys, trying to fix the keyboard, so now my spacebar and up arrow are missing.
LBT: I know Oak Hill, my doctor is out there. I’m in Travis Heights.
What I mean by “for someone else’s sake” is being pressured to diet, exercise etc. because people will think ze’s unworthy, ugly, etc. if ze doesn’t.
The line is pretty hard to draw unless you’re acutely aware of the pressures society has on people who don’t conform to a body ideal. And that’s because the line can only be clearly drawn if you are able to say “Even if no one frowned upon me being like X, I’d still want to do Y for my body.”