Like a lot of people in the US of A, I am taking a long weekend. Posting may be a little light for a bit. So here’s an open thread for everyone else taking a long weekend. Or not. Use this thread for anything that’s not personal. Like misogyny, politics, kitties, you know the drill. (Though kitties are welcome in all threads, of course.)
I am hoping my long weekend turns out a bit better than that of the people in the Australian movie of that name from 1978, which I keep meaning to see. Apparently their little beach vacation doesn’t go so well, and they are attacked by … nature? At one point, I believe, they face off against an enraged dugong. (No, really.) The movie was recently remade, but apparently the remake wasn’t as good.
Stay tuned for more reviews of movies I haven’t seen and that I’m just giving vague impressions of based on things I’ve heard somewhere.
And back to the far more interesting conversation about bras…
@gillyrosebee
I know, right? Muppet bras for the busty – are they trying to ensure that shirts don’t fit? Maybe they’re in league with the alterations industry, conspiring to force us to get all our shirts tailored. Behold the callous indifference of men that no MRA site focuses on these problems! I think I’ll write another 20000 words about this in the comments section of a blog where everyone is having a conversation about something else.
That phrase only means that personal issues involving the lives of women are oftentimes political ones as well because they relate to systems of oppression that affect women. It doesn’t mean that it’s totally okay to universalize an instance of personal experience.
You still made her cry (even though it wasn’t your intention) and you still said that in front of everyone. It’s no surprise that the people around you saw that as insensitive or rude because, to a lot of people, what you said amounts to saying that you think she’s ugly (even though that wasn’t what you meant to say).
@reginaldgriswold:
Oh.
Well that sucks.
Weren’t you the one who was so concerned with showing empathy? This is what empathy looks like. Having a small measure of concern for the feelings of others. It’s really not that difficult.
Chances are that they were, actually (I myself have done so a number of times), but that those friends chose to address the crappy behavior in question between the two of them, like mature adults, instead of stooping to the level (and engaging in the hypocrisy) of shaming someone in public to tell them not to shame people in public.
And that first comment was sarcasm, sweetie. Sorry if I forgot to hang a lantern on it for you.
I always thought padding was about shape, not size, like your breasts have to be perfect hemispheres so we’ll stuff the bra until it’ll stay that shape no matter what you put in it.
OF: I’m not trying to shame you by saying you’re a shit human. You’re clearly impervious to shame. If you weren’t you wouldn’t be typing the shit you type.
Something tells me that online you and offline you are probably very similar–but not in the badass way you think–, because you’re shown here that you are a weasel-worded, mealy-mouthed, all around chickenshit supremely dishonest motherfucker.
I hope you get a big blast of self-awareness one day.
It is about shaping, but the problem is that when there’s too much padding you end up, not with boobs that look like natural perfect hemispheres, but instead like you’re smuggling Muppets under your shirt.
What about the bras that cut your boobs in half? Those are the WORST.
And then you look like you have 4 boobs! Which is just overkill.
(Can you tell that I just watched Dave? The Simon Pegg version, not a movie about trolls being creepy by overusing the name of our host.)
Fib – Yes. Yes, he does.
Gilly – I agree with you. I’m not in the business of publicly shaming and policing other grown-ups. Unless someone is doing something really crappy (a long berating, or assaulting someone), I’ll wait until later to address their behavior in private. Hell, I did this after my 4th of July party. My (male) friend was being a shit to my other (male) friend. I privately told him that he was obviously hurting my friend with his mean-spirited jokes. I only mention genders since OF asserts none of us have empathy for men. OF doesn’t care about empathy; he just wants others to hurt because he has.
An old boss once told me that if you want to motivate people you praise in public and chastise in private. There are some exceptions to that, but “when an innocent third party will be hurt by witnessing the conversation” is not one of them.
Oh ObsidianFiles, no. No. Just… no.
an argument can be made that no one “deserves” housing, food, etc., either – that no one “owes” these things to someone else.
Wow. With an attitude like that, I hope children aren’t dependant on you.
I say that to make the point that all needs/desires along these lines are legitimate, and in truth, human history has addressed them in varying ways down through the ages. When it comes to questions of sex, and more specifically, the male drive/desire to get it from/with Women, again, humanity has addressed this in varying ways across the world.
Food and shelter are not comparable to sex. Point blank. As a man who’s having a brief interruption in homelessness, and will soon be returning to it, you are making a false comparison that is requiring all my self-control not to explode with rage.
Without food, I starve to death. Without a home, I’m exposed to the elements, violence, and my ability to gain employment plummets. Without sex… I don’t get laid. Can you seriously not realize the difference?
That you make this comparison at all… what is WRONG with you?
There’s also the fact that houses don’t care who lives in them, but women do care who fucks them. We are not a resource that can be provided by society without crossing all kinds of ethical boundaries.
Okay fuck this, I’m going back to talking about my trip. Who’s with me?
It looks like I’m going to have to invest in a tent, because I will likely be camping a lot, and since I’m going to be lugging it on my back for hundreds of miles, I can’t cheap out on some used whatever. This will make things heavier, but it will also mean portable lodging. (And parks! So many beautiful, beautiful parks.)
Amnesia, I’d be happy to visit you! I got a buddy in DC (though she’s being really hard to get ahold of, so she may not be visitable), and the bus goes from DC to Richmond, so perhaps on one leg or another of the trip, we can meet up!
auglochorelle, where in the Dakotas are you? Right now, I seem to have Montana pretty well covered, but the Dakotas and Wyoming are still pretty open.
Naturally, we are willing to repay crash-space generosity with art, cleaning, and cooking. (Mac has some pretty great dishes!) It’s only fair.
Yeah, let’s not even engage the toxic asshole. Trip planning!
RE: bras
This probably sounds very silly for me to say, but I kind of hope that I never have to wear a bra once I transition. They just look so inconvenient to wear for some reason. I’m probably completely wrong since I have yet to wear a bra, but that’s how I currently feel.
Dammit, I just got here and had to backtrack three pages to find out what in hell a “Muppet bra” is.
Bras are inconvenient. Even the comfy ones turn into torture chambers some days. The bra’s the first thing off when I get home from work.
Aaaand, I see if I had just stuck around another minute I could have saved myself all that scrolling. Oh well.
@Fibinachi:
“Obsidian, do you know what consent *is*?”
O: My understanding of “enthusiastic consent” as I’ve read about it from leading Feminist writers online, is that the Man is to verbally ask for permission at every point in the seduction, and if the Woman doesn’t reply with the same verbal “yes/no” response, he is to STOP. Given the very high price a Man – especially a Black one (Brian Banks, anyone?) can and likely will pay for violating these rules, I think it behooves a guy just to not even go there.
So…what’s he to do otherwise? Seems to me like we really don’t care what the guy does after that.
“I really don’t mean that as a coy insinuation of anything. The question is sincere – it seems to me as if you’ve… constructed this strange world wherein a man must have form signed in triplicate by three witnesses before even touching someone.
A world wherein hugging someone without express written permission and a strict time limit is a direct offense, worthy of jail time.”
O: This is per the Feminists’ admonitions, and I for one take them very seriously.
“… You don’t have to ask “May I?” every time you do anything? You know this. I know this. So my only three conclusions must be – you’re kidding, you don’t know, or I’m reading you wrong.”
O: Nope, I’m being dead serious and taking the Feminists’ at their word. Remember Fibinachi, I’m a Brotha – the simple truth of it is, that I have a much higher chance of running afoul of the Law than many of the guy readers/commenters here do. So it behooves someone like me to heed what the Feminists’ are saying here.
@Fibinachi:
“”Also, if it’s a buzzkill for someone to be asked whether or whether not they want to make out until lights start sparkling in their insides, I really – really! – recommend you don’t make out with them. Like, ever. Because they’re not the kind of people willing to communicate what they want out of life, and frankly, I don’t have time to deal with that and neither does anyone else. I hope. For their own good.”
O: Agreed.
““What are these guys supposed to do”? Well, get a hobby. NO, really, get a hobby. Do something with their lives that doesn’t involve an endless chase to get laid, because if they spend 100 % of their time worrying about their dates then they’re very bad dates – they have nothing to think or talk about being an ejaculation inside someone.
Would you date someone desperate?”
O: Actually, I’m all for hobbies. In fact, you will precisely what you just said in this respect in many pickup spaces.
“Talk to people. If A doesn’t work, talk to B. Realize that you’ll face both rejection and mutual attraction. Maybe they should talk to strangers, or wonder if they’re looking for masturbation puppets more than a relationship and if so, whether that’s really a good idea. Basic stuff, recommended by both Gamesters, Gentlemen and most advice columns. Everywhere.”
O: Personally speaking, Social circle Game doesn’t work, because I always wind up with subpar looking Women who are nevertheless “nice” – see, there’s a flipside to the Nice Guy(TM) issue too – the Nice Gal(TM)! Who woulda thunk that? Ha!
“But seriously, is your idea of Feminist Sex Advice a man groveling before a woman, on his knees, weepingly asking “May I?” before kissing her toes? It fits the idea of a Tyrannical Matriarch , but, really now…”
O: Well, what DO they mean, then Fibinachi? The Pickup approach is out, fine. The harassment thing ain’t no good, gotcha. “Yes means yes!” – sounds good to me – but if what you’re saying is to be believed, then even that may not be what they say it is.
Can you see how a guy can wind up utterly confused and frustrated?
“… I’m sorry that happened to you, but you realize… This is normal?
People telling you you should date other people is… pretty normal. Someone bursting into tears because of rejection is… pretty normal?”
O: I never claimed otherwise…just that it was highlighting an issue that rarely gets discussed because far too many guys remain quiet about it. I say it’s time we got very vocal about it, so Women in general know what’s up and Women in particular put a stop to it. It’s annoying, it’s a drag and it’s disrespectful as all get out…
@Fibinachi:
“”Perhaps this strikes a chord, because only last night, following my summer job of archery practice I had to have this very conversation with someone trying to sneak into my bed.”
O: Ah, so you know what I’m talking about, huh?
“… You realize… Not… Being attracted to someone.. is okay?”
O: Not to let a lot of Women tell, NO, it’s NOT OK. You, as a Man, are to be a walking Ever Ready Phallus, there on demand. And if you don’t fancy her like that, something’s wrong with you, all her/your people are trying to shame you, etc et al. It’s a bunch of bunk, Man.
“And if people give you flak for it… It’s their fault, generally speaking? You had this entire triade going earlier about how no one, you got it! Totally!, deserves sex and how it really is up to the individuals… but did you just back track on that?”
O: How have I backtracked on what I said earlier? My position hasn’t changed; the point is that the young lady in question felt that way, and she wasn’t the last one to feel that way either. And I don’t see ANYBODY upbraiding them the way Men are routinely upbraided along these lines. That’s my point…
“Seriously, man. I had someone I work with tell me I was a shell of a man with a character I had and a soul buried beneath all the questions I dodge in casual conversation and how I was probably secretively gay, anyway, but really, why didn’t I let someone into my otherwise bleak and broken heart less than 12 hours ago and… That sucks, but some people just can’t handle rejection.
That’s normal.”
O: In the Public Mind, all of this is NOT a “unisex” issue; it’s seen and framed SOLELY as a “Man” issue, and ONLY when someone like me raises Hell about it, does someone tack on “and Women, too!” at the end, like an afterthought or something. It’s deeply insulting. And no, I am not buying this idea that guys should just shrug it off like you’re suggesting here. I say Men need to start speaking up about things like this – really, really loudly.
“That’s not a flipside of anything. And your friends where invested in setting you up, so obviously they’re angry at you now. Remember, they see the tears and the drama. Your lack of emotion is generally not something anyone can work with.”
O: My “lack of emotion” had nothing to do with it; it had EVERYTHING to do with my socalled people attempting to foist someone on me that I had less than zero sexual interest in – period. And yes, this IS indeed the flipside of the issues often discussed along these lines, and again, you’ve seen it firsthand how insulting and disrespectful this is, and Women in particular need to hear this so they know and understand that a lot of guys don’t like it either, and to encourage them to step to their lady friends and put them in check on all of this.
“Come on.
Coooomee oooon.”
O: I suppose the phrase “Hell hath no fury like a Woman scorned” is alien to you, hmm? See, rejection is something that is really tilted toward guys; when it comes to Women, if they fancy you, and you don’t fancy them back, and you don’t acede to their demands, you’re gay, mean, got a small penis, you name it – and she can’t be upbraided for it because of “Woman’s perogative”. I’m telling you, I’ve experienced far and away more than my fair share of that kind of stuff and it really gets on your nerves after awhile, especially since sometimes, some of these very same Women will turnaround and complain about being harassed on the street, on the job, a school or whatever. ???
Come on, indeed…
O.
Ally — I know a male bodied genderqueer person who likes bras. I guess they’re easier to get to fit right if you’re wearing falsies. Idk about the results of hormones and real breasts though. I did know a b cup girl in HS who never wore more than a sports bra (until prom, she made a duct tape band for nipple coverage for that, and it was awesome).
The people who really hate them seem to be at least a D cup though, sooooo many bras are made for people in the A-C range.
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And this thread literally put me to sleep btw. Statistics on the differences between lurker and regular or lurkers everyone else or regulars…you get the picture = more interesting.
On that note, I’ve run the answers to the “do you feel accepted…” question for the vast majority of variables (though, besides gay/bi/straight, they’ve all been the check ONE questions). And age v regular/lurker/etc.
Anything else you want to see?
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The only variable that produced a statistically significant difference in acceptance at Manboobz? Us bi/pan/omnisexual folks feel MORE accepted than our heterosexual boobzers (who feel equally as accepted as non-straight people do)
So yeah, the only variable that isn’t “we all feel accepted here” is bi/pan/omnisexual people feelings MORE accepted.
Go have cookies guys, you deserve ’em.
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If this is an okay thing to ask, what does NDN mean? I’ve seen it elsewhere but feel like I’m making an ass out of myself asking, but hey, y’all are accepting, might as well risk being told that it isn’t an okay thing to ask.
Well, unless you like upsetting people where they will be either too stunned by your cruelty or too fearful of losing their job to fight back. Because ALPHA DOG, donchaknow.
I’ll get back to his wallotext.
LBT — probably outside your price range, but this is supposedly a pretty good light weight tent.
Depending why you want a tent, you could also go the waterproof sleeping bag and tarp route (seriously, carry a tarp, or two, you do not want to pitch a tent over wet ground). And smallish caves are good, if you can map those out, don’t want one big enough to have a bear or shit in it, but an overhang and tarp makes for pretty good protection from rain.