Like a lot of people in the US of A, I am taking a long weekend. Posting may be a little light for a bit. So here’s an open thread for everyone else taking a long weekend. Or not. Use this thread for anything that’s not personal. Like misogyny, politics, kitties, you know the drill. (Though kitties are welcome in all threads, of course.)
I am hoping my long weekend turns out a bit better than that of the people in the Australian movie of that name from 1978, which I keep meaning to see. Apparently their little beach vacation doesn’t go so well, and they are attacked by … nature? At one point, I believe, they face off against an enraged dugong. (No, really.) The movie was recently remade, but apparently the remake wasn’t as good.
Stay tuned for more reviews of movies I haven’t seen and that I’m just giving vague impressions of based on things I’ve heard somewhere.
ObFlake: : Yes – just how many swear words can you spew out of that hole in your head that passes for a mouth?
And you think this isn’t offensive? No, of course you do, it’s why you stoop to it, while preening that you are above such base things.
Such as…? What am I preventing you from having?
A world where I don’t have to wonder which guys think rape might necessary if they don’t have Game. A world where guys trying to Game women into “giving it up” didn’t make my friends lives less happy.
Little things like that.
It’s not the language that bothers PUA dudes when they get pushback. It’s the pushback. One of the common threads in discussions of Game is that women who have been shown what it is, are much harder targets. Women who are willing to swear at men are more confident. They are less likely to take the little slights that come with being set up as well.
So policing speech; not so much to keep them from swearing, but to make women’s response to negs, and other, “minor insults” less powerful is part of the Game. So yes, hellkell’s language is the issue.
Just not for the reasons you are implying.
For the same reason(s) why people like you keep trying to tell me why I should care about some Goth chick getting the business while walking down the street? *shrug*
Right, because being imposed on is so much the same as not getting any tail.
Way to compare apples to apples (Pippins to Road, if you must know which two).
Ugh, OF’s big thing is to type a lot of words that boil down to him wanting others to do his work. I dunno why.
Oh, wait. Yes I do, it’s because he’s a ginourmous titty-baby.
@auggziliary, SQUEEEEEEEEEE! I wish you could have gotten a picture of your little feathery snuggle!
When I was growing up, one of my aunts raised birds, and she had a green and gold macaw that she’d hand raised since he was hatched. She had a hammock on her deck that she would sit in, and he’d hop over and snuggle against her shoulder, putting his head into her hair. Then he would snooze there and woe betide anyone who made her get up or move her head!
@marcilannister, thank you for the good advice, I appreciate it!
So, since the question of “entitlement to sex/relationships” came up, and since we have agreed tha this is something that can occur on both the male and female side, I have yet another personal story to relate:
Many years ago, there was a young lady who liked me and, because she was tight with people I happened to know very closely, attempted to use those associations to insinuate herself into my life.
Now, this young lady was NOT sexually attractive to me. At. All. And my people kept trying to “push” her on me, telling me how “nice” she is, and so forth.
So, after awhile I got tired of the whole thing, and simply decided to tell the young lady that I was NOT sexually attracted to her AT ALL, and to please stop trying to push up on me. I said it very plainly, in an even, monotoned voice, looking her squarely in the eyes, and in front of many of our mutual people.
She burst into tears.
And then the “Big, Bad Meanie” treatment began – “how could you do that to her, Obsidian, she likes you!”
O: I’m NOT sexually attracted to her.
“But she’s so nice!”
O: I’m NOT sexually attracted to her.
“She would make a really nice girlfriend for you!”
O: I’m NOT sexually attracted to her.
“That ain’t right!”
O: *Zones out*
You see, this is the flipside of these kinds of discussions that rarely if ever sees the light of day – Men aren’t expected to have their own ideas and standards of what they find sexually attractive, AND to decline any alternate offers if he thinks they are subpar. If he does this, he “ain’t right”, “mean”, “selfish”, “superficial”, and if you’re Black, you’re full of “self hate”, “colorstruck” and so forth. No, it couldn’t just be, that you simply aren’t into the Woman in question due to her not being sexually attractive to you as a Man; you MUST accept her overtures, because if you don’t you’re “mean”.
There is ALWAYS a flipside, folks.
Remember that.
O.
Ehermagherd, is it Super Sale Weekend at the House of Tedious Windbags? All those long wallotext posts…
So, your point is that because people are sometimes coercive and manipulative towards men, men should be coercive and manipulative towards women? wtf
OF: your scenario happens EVRY FUCKING MINUTE to women. “Give him a chance, he’s a nice guy, blahblahblah.”
So you got a taste, and you still have no empathy? Huh.
EVERYTHING in society is pretty much set up for catering to men’s standards. FUCK OFF with your dishonest shit.
I have recently learned several solutions to crying babies, but somehow I doubt that OF would appreciate any of them.
@Unimaginative Thanks for posting that recipe! I was watering the garden this morning and was super-psyched to see that I have two zucchini plants coming up (due to some pretty substantial renovations, the garden was very delayed this year). My current favorite zucchini recipe is this one http://allrecipes.com/recipe/connies-zucchini-crab-cakes/
Tell that to the billion dollar porn industry.
OH GOD I’M SO SORRY EVERYONE
In penance, I shall now go and load the dishwasher.
BAD FALCONER! BAD, BAD FALCONER!!!
It’s OK, he would have windbagged on without you.
@Falconer Any new pictures? Your two bundles of adorable can blow a bad mood away in record time!
QFFT!!
And WTF do I need with ‘push up’ padding? If they get any higher I won’t be able to see where I am going!!
Actually, my solution (as well as an attempt to address some back pain and posture issues) is to make a corset. I’ve got a friend coming over later and we’re gonna warm up with some chardonnay and then try making a pattern with duct tape.
Will you be coming by to clean the coffee from my keyboard, or should have it done and send you the bill? 😉
Gillyrosebee: have you thought about a long-line bra instead of a corset? Might be a bit more comfy.
Hellkell, I have and I like some things about it and didn’t like others. I’ve recently been sucked partially into the steampunk/victorian scene and started dressing up, and one of the things that surprised me about wearing a corset was how comfortable it actually turned out to be, much more so than any of the longlines I’ve tried.
A surefire anti-tedium treatment can be found here, btw.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/acdfe85889c5f6a9f5bc2602ebd2348a/tumblr_mm8tkh7Qwq1s6nspeo1_400.gif
For the record, if OF was in fact harassed and just got laughed at, that’s not right either. See, OF? I don’t hardly know you, and can’t fucking stand what I do know, but I can have empathy for you.
@Ugh:
“A Google search of “Dating services” yields 684 million results.”
O: Indeed, but the vast majority of them either aren’t geared for Men, particularly the kinds of “clueless” guys we’re talking about, or, they’re more of the “unisex in name only” kind (read: de facto services for ladies) – in other words, they don’t work. One of the dirty little secrets many on this side of the fence don’t want or like to admit is that the pickup community hit a rich vein of truth – even Clarisse Thorn, who I’m no friend of, has said as much – there simply aren’t much in the way of real services that cater to Men in this area. There just isn’t. The pickup community is filling the void, and to date, nothing else has come along with a better mousetrap. (Thorn was roundly excoriated by her Feminists sisters for saying that, by the way)
“Are you seriously arguing that street harassers are so stupid that it is the job of feminists to Google things for them?”
O: No.
“Knows he deserves empathy for being street harassed./Wants to defend people who street harass women./Only men deserve empathy, amirite?”
O: In reverse order:
No, that is not what I’m saying.
I actually think street harassment is wrong, largely because it doesn’t work.
I don’t think I “deserve” anything; what I was doing was pointing out the fact that Men don’t often get any empathy when they experience many of the very things Women deplore – least of all, from Women themselves…
@Kittensherf:
“You do realise all this capitalising of nouns just makes you look even more pretentious and stupid than you did already.”
O: *shrugs*
“I repeat: this is not a dating site.”
O: And I repeat: this is a site where a whole range of topics are discussed. This is what Dave himself has stated. Moreover, this is an “open” thread. Therefore, I felt it appropriate to just ask some questions…and the responses have been most enlightening, I must say! Good job!
“It’s not a lonely hearts site. I’m with hellkell on this one: I don’t give a shit what guys do in their social lives (ooh, there’s a hint! Social lives!) as long as they’re being decent human beings.”
O: Hence, you’re part of the problem not the solution…
“I don’t date,”
O: Hmm, I wonder why…
“I can’t imagine ever wanting to, and I have nothing but scorn for some douchebag who comes here demanding we give the poor sad menz who’ve never grown up point-by-point advice on how to get their precious dicks wet.”
O: Would it surprise you to learn that the vast majority of guys who attend seminars and bootcamps in the PUA world, just want a girlfriend? I know this, because I’ve seen it firsthand. And it is very poignant thing to see. You truly can observe a lot by looking…
@Auggzillary:
“That’s like thinking that every Fight Club fan is OK with getting beat up. It’s *fantasy*. What part of this is hard to understand?”
O: What part of what I said didn’t you understand? Are you telling me that there are no Women in the realworld who act in such ways? Really?
“Um, exactly? She’s not worth it, so ditch her. Again, you are making your boner more important than others’ safety.”
O: We’ve agreed on this point, that it is better to just bug on outta there.
NOW WHAT?
That’s what I’m asking YOU – and boy, the (non)responses is a heck of a thing to witness…
“That’s like saying people need to eat lobster and chocolate cake because people will almost always choose that over what they normally eat.”
O: If you say so…
“That’s like saying someone who never eats at a restaurant is fasting.”
O: No, it’s not…
“Dating site.”
O: Online dating is at best a timesuck and at worst a money pit for the vast majority of Men. This has been proven in studies done on the matter. Again: see Jon Millward’s researches on OKCupid.
“Clubs.”
O: Something fast becoming a thing of the past; see Putnam, “Bowling Alone”…
“Ask a friend you like.”
O: “Social circle Game” only works if you have a social circle that has available Women in them to begin with. This isn’t the case for many Men.
“Etc. I met my boyfriend because we were both in marching band and played the same instrument. See? No catcalling or Game involved!”
O: All living things on this planet has a mating strategy. It may not be Game or catcalling, but you can best believe both of you had to display your respective wares in order for the two of you to be attracted to each other.
At any rate, and including the “Etc.”, you mentioned *five* possible options – out of a “billion”.
Hmm…
@Falconer:
“Holy argument from authority batman.”
O: A legitimate one, at that; have you read “Self Made Man” by Norah Vincent?
“I am a man, or a “Man,” if you will, and I say masturbation is perfectly acceptable and enjoyable and is a sexual pursuit that men can enjoy without having to pester women.”
O: Your opinion appears to be in the distinct minority, if the actions of other Men are anything to go by. They tend to prefer sex with Women to jacking it…
@Hellkell:
“OF: I don’t personally know the multitudes of women being harassed everyday, but I do care about it.”
O: OK.
“So if your harassers had been pretty and young,you’d have been ok? So you deserve empathy, but no one else does? Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ.”
O: I never said that. As for your question, I honestly don’t know; what I do know is that them being young(er) and/or pretty certainly would not have hurt…
“Your world is a scary, fucked-up place. I’m glad it isn’t the real world.”
O: *As I type this while sitting outside on my nice, clean and safe block on a bright sunny day, waiting for the big block party going down later today…
“For the record, if OF was in fact harassed”
O: I have been, in fact, street harassed; why is that so hard for you to grok?
“and just got laughed at, that’s not right either. See, OF? I don’t hardly know you, and can’t fucking stand what I do know, but I can have empathy for you.”
O: Thanks…I think?
O.
If you’re gonna sock, OF, log out first.
OF: it’s not hard for me to grok, but let’s face it, you are not exactly honest.
Uh, OF. Your nasty little slip is showing again.
@Hellkell:
“Men aren’t expected to have their own ideas and standards of what they find sexually attractive
Tell that to the billion dollar porn industry.”
O: Indeed!-and look at how much it is excoriated, largely by Women, for this?
Thank you, for making my point, Ms. HK! 🙂
@Ugh:
“So, your point is that because people are sometimes coercive and manipulative towards men, men should be coercive and manipulative towards women?”
O: Not at all; where did you get that from out of what I have said?
“WTF”, indeed…
@Hellkell:
“OF: your scenario happens EVRY FUCKING MINUTE to women. “Give him a chance, he’s a nice guy, blahblahblah.””
O: Indeed it does; the difference is, that there is cultural space with which Women are permitted to discuss it, and where Men are made to understand that it greatly perturbs the ladies.
Where is the reciprocity?
“So you got a taste, and you still have no empathy? Huh.”
O: Actually, I’ve gotten quite a few “tastes”. I only discussed one instance.
“EVERYTHING in society is pretty much set up for catering to men’s standards. FUCK OFF with your dishonest shit.”
O: I am not being dishonest. I am showing you the flipside of these kinds of discussions. Men are NOT allowed to have their standards for what they do and do not find attractive, because people, Women and some Men, will give said Men a hard time for it. This is wrong, and it needs to stop.
@Falconer:
“I have recently learned several solutions to crying babies, but somehow I doubt that OF would appreciate any of them.”
O: This is just as well, since I don’t have any babies…
@Hellkell:
“BAD FALCONER! BAD, BAD FALCONER!!!
It’s OK, he would have windbagged on without you.”
O: Actually, I would not have mentioned anything about “entitlement” had he not brought it up, so his doing “dishwashing penance” is appropriate… 😉
O.