When I bring up the subject of cats on this blog, as I so often do, it’s party because, well, I’m a bit of a fan. But it’s also because I know it confuses and irritates the misogynists who read this blog, inveterate cat-haters all (or almost all). I’ve never quite understood the depth of the animosity the guys in the manosphere seem to have towards cats.
But now one of these cat haters has provided us with a theoretical explanation for his catphobia. In a post with the suggestive title “Limp-Wristed Cat Lovers, Beautiful Dog Lovers,” the guy behind the PUA blog LaidInNYC explains why real men — and real women — hate cats and love dogs instead.
Dogs are loyal, obedient, and affectionate.
Masculine men love these qualities in our companions, and they are qualities we want in our women as well.
Cats are selfish, independent, and alpha.
Masculine men hate these qualities in our companions. This is because masculine men are the owners, not the owned.
Huh. It’s weird how these descriptions of “alpha males” often read like confessions of massive insecurity. So “masculine men” are so insecure they can’t stand being challenged even by their pets? They’re so threatened by the independence of other creatures that they can’t tolerate a pet that might sometimes wander off into another room to take a nap?
But according to Mr. LaidInNYC, it’s the cat-loving dudes who are the sissies:
95% of men who love cats are either gay or have sub fantasies*. If you like cats, you like not being in control.
Well, all except for a small-percentage of super-alpha dudes who are so manly they can tame even the mighty housecat:
There are a small percentage of straight alpha seducers that like to own cats. The reason is they love dominating an already dominant living thing. They like to stare down and dominate their cats just because they can.
Welcome to my world.
Well, ok, sometimes the cats stare me down.
But what about the women? If masculine men love dogs, shouldn’t feminine women love cats? Then why do manosphere dudes so regularly hurl abuse on women with cats?
Well, LaidInNYC has an answer for that: it turns out that truly feminine women actually prefer dogs to cats, but for a totally different reason than men.
While men love the loyalty and obedience, girls are much more likely to coo over a dogs unconditional love, furry cuddles, and “look how cute he looks when he does that thing with his paw” type stuff.
Feminine girls love their dogs but they don’t enjoy training them, letting them run in an open field and feeling pride when the dog comes right back when called, punishing them when necessary, etc. …
Most of the feminine dog lovers I know already have strong male dominance types in their life, be it a strong father, boyfriend, or husband, and they just like the dog as another source of love. … cats are superfluous when you have a man to obey.
It’s a different story indeed for “the masculine, ugly, old, short-haired, barren feminists who end up being cat ladies.”
Ugly masculine girls, on the other hand, cannot find a male to dominate them in their social life because they lack the beauty. Since being dominated by a strong independent entity who doesn’t need her is so important to a woman, she must seek out that domination. Ugly girls find this in either a career, feminism, cats, or some combination of the three.
A job, a cat, some feminism: the holy trinity of MISANDRY.
I’m not not exactly sure how any of these things “dominate” women, but since Mr. LaidInNYC doesn’t actually seem to know anything about anything, I guess I’ll let that one slide.
In the meantime, I would like to treat you all to pictures of some of the evil independent creatures that make alpha males tremble in fear:
This is mainly how I try to train my doggies nowadays. When I first became a dog owner, I was more into “you gotta show the dog you’re the alpha yada yada”, not because I loved DAH DOMINANCE but because I thought that was the only way to train dogs. Only I really failed with my two oldest dogs – I don’t think they’re ever gonna be really obedient, since I made so many mistakes with them to start with. My younger two are really reliable, and they’ve been trained with positive methods.
Lots of people will argue that you must use actual punishments on “tough” dogs or “high-drive” dogs, like working-line GSD:s for instance. Well, I have a working-line GSD now, with lots of security guard dogs and police dogs in her pedigree, whose mentality assessment test confirms that she’s got lots of drive and is pretty fearless. And I really think non-punishment training is particularly appropriate with that kind of dog, because it’s so difficult to bully them into submission. Like I said in my former post, I know a few dogs of this type who really turned on their owners, and many more where the owners are constantly fighting and struggling with the dog.
What I’ve gathered is that you sometimes need to be super-patient in order to teach them something… Like, teaching her not to chase other animals (and she was absolutely crazy about chasing anything that moved since she was a little baby) has involved
a) keeping her on a leash whenever there was a danger of some interesting animal passing by, for a loooong time, until finally she was trustworthy.
b) teaching her “come” by rewarding her coming when called by playing tug-of-war with an old piece of fire-hose until sweat was literally pouring from me. I’d scream and yell at her and shaking her and throwing her around in the air, the whole game must have looked absolutely nuts to passers-by, more like an actual fight than a game, but she loves to “fight” like that, and she needed a reward that would give her an adrenaline-kick comparable to the one she’d get from hunting. “Normal” playing wasn’t enough.
c) rewarding every little tendency towards merely looking, not taking off on a chase, when seeing an animal in the same way as b.
We’ve had a few slip-ups over the years when she’s still chased something, but overall, she’s reliable now.
So, um, not easy. On the other hand, I seriously doubt it would have been any easier to teach her not to chase animals by punishing chasing tendencies. People who take the punishment approach to dog training always say stuff like “you merely teach them who’s boss and that some things aren’t allowed, as easy as that”, but unless their dog is a push-over, that’s rarely true. A friend of mine used to train dogs for the Swedish army, using then-allowed but now-outlawed methods like electro-shock collars to punish away hunting tendencies. She said that dogs with a strong hunting drive never could be trusted without the elector-shock collar. As soon as the collar was off, they’d hunt again. And some dogs would hunt again even with the collar on. It wasn’t unusual at all that you needed to shock them a few times a year to keep the fear up.
Cassandra- that’s actually my breed… and exactly why I’ve always got my antennae up for dudes (and women) like that when I’m talking to anyone asking about it.
GSD = German Shepherd?
I must admit that any time I see someone being an asshole to their dog I’m always kind of hoping that the dog will bite them. Which is foolish, because some who’s enough of an asshole to abuse their dog is probably going to respond by being even more cruel to the dog rather than learning a lesson about boundaries.
Yep, Cassandra. German Shepherd Dog.
@ LabRat
Do you get idiots wanting to adopt your dogs because they want a big strong “macho” dog? Ie the same kind of people who sometimes want Rotts, Pits, etc for all the wrong reasons? I’d think breeders would need to screen for that kind of potential owner.
On training! There are several big dogs in my neighborhood. One is a Bernese, so no surprise he’s a sweetie. There are also two Malamutes, one of whom is quite aloof and the other is very friendly and likes to try and jump up at people. The owner of the second one doesn’t seem to have tried or been able to train that out of him, which means that whenever he’s walking the dog he’s constantly alert and wary of people getting too close. First time I met the dog I walked right into him (round a corner) and he did jump up at me, and the owner kind of freaked out because he expected me to freak out. Since I really like big dogs it was fine, but in general it seems like a good idea to try to train very large dogs not to jump up at strangers rather than have to be constantly paranoid whenever they’re out. Not sure if it’s always possible though, and if it was my dog it would make me sad to have to do that because I’d like them jumping up at me.
We also have a big Chow and zie doesn’t seem to have been trained much at all. Snapped at me once when I stepped off a bus and almost walked into hir, growls at random people all the time. No surprise that unlike all of the other dogs mentioned this one’s owner is an asshole. I also recently met a kid, boy about 8 or so, with a Shiba that demonstrated the fact that smaller dogs need training too, because that dog growled at and tried to lunge at every other kid that walked past. The kid thought it was awesome that his dog was so “mean”. I’m going to guess “parents are assholes” in his case.
I suspect it’s challenging to train away jumping up, since so many dog lovers (self included) end up providing positive reinforcement when dogs do that to us, even though we shouldn’t!
On cats, I think the Manboobz Castle would look something like this.
Oy, wordpress, what are you playing at this time?
http://raisedonhoecakes.com/ROH/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/catwoman_the_cat_lady_by_caanantheartboy-d61xx7r.jpg
Cassandra- everyone inquiring after an actual puppy out of one of my own litters (all one previous and the one my bitch is hopefully pregnant with now, after which she’ll be spayed, so clearly that’s a lot) has been someone who already had owned the breed happily and understood them well, including enjoying their independence, thank god. But I talk to lots of people who want to know about them, and yeah, idiots who want a huge, wolfy-looking badass guard dog who’ll be loyal forever (yeah right, they dismiss anyone they don’t respect, and you can’t beat respect into them) are drawn.
@ katz
Oh yeah, if dude is trying to train his dog not to jump up at strangers I totally undermined his efforts, because I was all “OMG you are so cute and fluffy! Let’s get you even more excited than you already are! Cuddles!”.
Jumping up- two of mine, the smartasses, are canine rules lawyers. So they’ve learned they’re not allowed to put their paws on people. So instead they rear up and boop people on the nose or chin with their nose. Fortunately only people they really like, so it’s not been an issue with scaring people, except the one time Kang did it to a little boy she decided was the awesome, and she was taller on her hind legs than him. Fortunately it turned out he had a big dog and she didn’t scare him.
I did have to teach the boy I’m showing right now not to hold people’s hand, which was a little heartbreaking since that’s all he wanted to do, not nip or grab. But I figured it would scare people to have a dog who was already massive as a puppy seize their hand, however gently.
Canine rules lawyers – love that image!
Here’s Horse being a feline rules lawyer:
http://www.oneil.com.au/footrot/comics/ff25_75a.gif
It just occurred to me that I’m exactly the kind of feminine woman who loves dogs who dudebro hates. I love big wolfy looking dogs best of all, but I like them because they’re beautiful, not because I think of them as a macho accessory, and part of the reason I like them so much is that they’re often rather strong-willed and not super compliant.
It also occurs to me that if you have a hard time getting a cat to acknowledge you as the person who’s basically in charge of the house then your personality is clearly not as alpha as you think it is.
I’ve been to the Hemingway House. The cats run that place. The image that will stick with me, that really sums up what that place is like, is this: Our tour of the house got to Hemingway’s bedroom. They’ve still got Hemingway’s bed in there, and it’s roped off a good foot or two away from it to keep it from the grubby hands of tourists. And flopped out right in the middle of this bed was an enormous orange cat.
Oops, WordPress switched my nym around, and now my comment’s in mod. Not trying for a astoundingly ineffectual sock there, I promise.
Mildly on topic: As a fan of the crime genre, I’ve noticed a similar trend. Tough, independent female detectives either have cats or no pets. More caregiving, family oriented women have dogs. Men always have dogs if they have any pets.
The only exception I can think of is the detective Charlie Resnick who has a bunch of cats, but then he’s sensitive and likes jazz and stuff.
I love both cats and dogs equally? I also love snakes and other reptiles. I would adore a pet tarantula but my daughter has absolutely forbidden it, so I have to wait til she goes off to college. I wonder what it all means!
Also what about HellBoy?!
Despite never being punished beyond a harsh word and being lavishly rewarded for success, my dog has simply never taken to doing anything she doesn’t want to do. She doesn’t do tricks unless I have a treat, and she doesn’t come when called unless she feels like it. She’s plenty smart and has an aggravatingly large vocabulary, but she has definite ideas about the world that don’t always align with my own. If I tell her no, she sulks at me and heaves doggy sighs for hours.
My boy cat comes when called and will do tricks, though nothing amazing yet (he’ll fetch, though, my dog won’t). My girl cat is a huge snugglebug and generally listens to what I have to say as well. Both are way more obedient than the dog, they’re even easier to groom. The dog acts like I’m murdering her with an axe when I clip her toenails.
I accept them for who they are, because I love them. Do I wish my cats spent a little less time crawling up my pants? Sometimes, yes. Do I wish my dog would listen to me? All the time. But I love them.
I’m bi-petsual and currently live with one dog and two cats. I only ever use two kinds of training: lavish love for good behavior, small amounts of ignoring them/isolating them for bad behavior. They are all sweet good boys. What bugs the crap out of me is how some dudes judge me for being too close to/attuned to/dependent on/whatever my pets. I’m totally the alpha in my house, asshats, but I almost-never have to prove it! They know who provides the food/has the opposable thumbs! Because they aren’t dumb! No posturing required! Just patient, loving attention. (I have a developing theory that these dudes resent my giving that attention to animals instead of giving it to, you know, dudes, but four decades of life on this planet have taught me which is the smarter investment of my emotional energy.) (Anyhoo, whenever a guy tosses around the “alpha wolf” idea non-ironically he goes straight to my permanent “no-fly” zone ifyouknowwhatImeanandIthinkthatyoudo.)
They also expend lots of energy obsessing about their own status around other guys and worry about not coming across as the most dominant guy in the room, and have special tactics for “out alpha-ing” other guys.
From what I’ve seen of this type of guy in person (not just on the internet), I’d say that’s 100% of what the “alpha” obsession is about and that it ultimately has very little to do with women or even sex. It’s a status game men are playing *with each other*, but *at women*, in the same way PUAs/MRAs assume everything women do is directed at mens’ boners. Many, many PUAs seem to only bother hooking up so they can run online and post diary entries about it for other PUAs and get high fives. They’re “triumphant”, meanwhile I’m sure the woman is all “meh, better luck next time”… I don’t even think PUAs care what women think of them (if they did, they’d be more concerned with getting sex tips than “pick up” tips, word of mouth is the best advertising there is) — I truly think most of the neurosis and hysterical masculinity is about what other men think of them.
Most women, I imagine, have no idea what these guys mean by “alpha male”, and would assume it means “a man who is successful at work and a respected member of their community”, when we’ve seen it’s used in a whole host of contexts and applied to men so different that it doesn’t seem to have a clear definition. I’m not sure I have any idea what they mean, and I’ve read reams of internet prose on the topic by now. Personally, I’m attracted to people whom I find good looking (though there’s a big range there) and who are pleasant to be around, like most women. I really couldn’t care less whether a guy I find attractive is “dominating” all the other dudebros. I’ve never met any other woman who cares, either. That’s an internet misogyny unicorn I’d like to run into one day — the woman who actually only sleeps with “alpha males”…
Yeah… my dog is mostly very obedient (he is in some kind of rebellious teenager phase now, but he is still nice), and we trained him mostly with positive reinforcement, giving him treats and praise whenever he did something good. When he behaves badly, usually ignoring him or giving him a harsh “NO” does the trick.
This guys got everything backwards. I think dogs need a social structure, but not because they luuurve obecience, but because they need to feel safe and loved. Being their “alpha” does not mean being an asshole to them, it means being calm and reliable and protective. Like, when the dog is nervous, teaching zir tricks and giving zir praise, or taking zir out for a walk, or just staying calm to show the dog there is nothing to fear. That way, the dog will trust and respect you, instead of obeying you out of fear.
Dogs normally love their owners and want to please them. They cannot comprehend abandonment or abuse, because they would never do it on their own. If you mistreat a dog, you are a horrible person.
BUT WHAT DO MICE MEAN!!!!?!
I must know!
For reasons.
That you think men are rodents. There, happy now?
I guess, I just thought it would be more profound or silly…