It’s a challenge for every serious writer of fiction: how to write convincing characters of the opposite sex.* Some writers can pull it off, some — even eminent ones — can’t. James Joyce is still getting props for the way he got into Molly Bloom’s dirty, dirty mind; Tom Wolfe was nearly laughed out of the sorority by some critics when he wrote a book from the point of view of a college student named Charlotte Simmons. (And it’s not just men who get accused of not being able to think outside their own gender: an essay in Salon not long ago suggested that Girls creator Lena Dunham “can’t write men.”)
We can add one more name to the long list of male authors who can’t write women: The fellow who calls himself fish_finger on Reddit.
The other day, Mr. Finger posted what he claimed was a true story about some women at his workplace who had been passing around a list of their male colleagues, rated “hot or not” on the customary 1-10 scale, and covered with crude sexual comments about them. The comments about the hottest guys, he wrote,
incited rape and were seriously disturbing. One female forwarded it onto HR and the rest of the department, but no action has been taken. HR have said it was just a joke and should be forgotten.
So far, it sounds unlikely, but it’s at least within the realm of the possible, allowing for a bit of the typical Men’s Rights exaggeration.
The trouble came when someone asked Mr. Finger what the comments were like, and he replied with this:
Yeah, I think it’s pretty safe to say that no woman in the history of the universe has ever uttered, or set down on paper, either the first or third comment in that list. I’m pretty sure women don’t sneak around in the alleys behind the houses of handsome dudes with turkey basters in hand, rifling through the trash in hopes of finding discarded condoms with still-viable sperm swimming around inside of them.
These aren’t comments from actual women. These are Men’s Rights myths come to life.
Naturally, the folks in r/againstmensrights are having a field day with this one. And while most of those in r/mensrights are taking Mr. Fingers completely seriously — his post got nearly 700 upvotes, and the most heavily upvoted responses to these allegedly real comments urge him to take the company to court — there are even some there who can see it’s a fake.
Still, Mr. Finger doesn’t seem like a typical troll. His account is four months old, and he seems to spend most of his time on Reddit talking with utmost sincerity about pet rats.
But he has posted previous comments in r/mensrights about his workplace that have the same air of unreality about them. In one, he claimed to have gotten in trouble “for not being courteous to a females colleagues request that only females sit next to her and men must not be within 10m [of] her desk.”
He got 86 upvotes for that one. How many offices are big enough to make this even possible?
As best as I can figure it, Mr. Finger is both a sincere rat lover and a sincere Men’s Rightser; it’s just that he apparently thinks the best way to advance Men’s Rights is to tell tall tales about men being oppressed.
That, in itself, is not all that surprising; the Men’s Rights movement is built on imaginary oppression.
But what is a little more surprising is how willing other MRAs are to accept the completely unbelievable comments he claims are from the women in his office as real. Are they really that out of tune with how women actually think?
Do they have so little empathy and understanding that they actually think the women sitting next to them at work not only look at men as little more than walking repositories of genetic material — but that they would rather steal their sperm from the garbage than have sex with them? That they think these women think of sex in terms of “engulfing” men’s penises?
Apparently for a lot of Men’s Rightsers the answer is yes.
—
*Gender is obviously more complicated than the traditional gender binary; I am talking here mostly about cis men and women trying to write from the point of view of cis women and men on the opposite side of the binary.
Some college friends once poured alcohol on a table and lit it on fire and one of them, who was not the brains of the operation, tried to put it out with his body. But at least it was only alcohol and he had the sense to take his clothes off and roll so he didn’t suffer anything worse than getting known as “the guy with the flaming underwear.”
LBT, so sorry – sounds like that is no friend to you.
Oh gods, the “but you were awesome (while slowly killing yourself)” brigade. You have my sympathies. I don’t have that little piece of paper, I’m about 9~ credits shy. Money ran out, sanity soon followed (well, it was on its way, but the Must. Do. Thing. sorta delays that…)
And I’m still getting from all corners about how I should finish my degree. Like, who wants to bet me my psych brings it up tomorrow?
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, being nuts just proves you aren’t trying hard enough because look at the shit you got done while driving yourself more nuts! *hands LBT a clue-by-4* you can beat him with mine if you want
@LBT, Another example of intersectionality really. College degrees generally DO help people get out of poverty. Other factors can interfere. Blue collar jobs generally ARE shitty; in some parts of the country, UNION blue collar jobs pay very well, better than many of the jobs you can get with just a BA or even a Masters.
It’s complicated, and it sounds like your friend is trying to oversimplify. I don’t think your being hurt is irrational at all.
That bit in the OP about hot sauce doesn’t even make sense within their twisted logic. If she was trying to sperm jack someone, she should be saying “i hope he *hasn’t* put hot sauce in it” otherwise it implies that she wants the sperm for something other than getting pregnant. If she just wanted hot sauce up her jaxie she’d just go buy a bottle like a normal person.
@titianblue – count me in the naive club then, I thought it was just spermicide they were talking about, too. Especially if it was being put into a used condom. (Tell me they’re not cheap enough to try using the things twice!)
Also, of course it was the office cat. Because Furrinati.
I think that was his color commentary, Kim. On his made-up list.
Looking at the apostrophes in the OP, I think the hot sauce comment is added by Mr Finger as a comment on what the fictional females are saying.
And ninja’d again. Hangs head in shame.
RE: titianblue
*sigh* This friend has been good to me in the past. He just has a lot of internalized anger that he didn’t finish his degree, so sometimes he uses me to denigrate himself. I don’t appreciate being hate-puppeted, and have had fights with him in the past over this. (He sometimes romanticizes my life, because I’m doing some of the things he wants to do, like travel and rest and do art… without realizing that from where I’m standing, having money and a job sounds really nice. Grass is greener and all.)
RE: Argenti
Yeah, he’s not giving me grief about how awesome I was back then. I just think sometimes he gets stuck in his own feelings and forgets that. Uh. I was one sick bastard in 2007. (Seriously, I was reading the journals then, when me and Mac first got together. Man, I like myself so much better now.)
RE: cloudiah
Yeah, and I admit, I have been pretty lucky, when I was hunting jobs. I could generally find one within a few months. They were never GREAT jobs (customer service, cleaning… you know, the exact same jobs I did BEFORE college), but at least they were there.
The whole thing that brought it up was I mentioned semi-jokingly that I should’ve immigrated when I had the chance, and he responded that since I had a degree, I’d be more likely to get it. Since. Uh. I’m kinda disabled, and they check for that, I dunno that that’s entirely true.
…and as a public service reminder, “Ben Gay” is not a sexual lubricant.
And as long as we’re posting videos of burning testicles…
I’m so going to hell.
Sick twisted brain thought…you’ve been denied at least once right? SS(D)I considers you not disabled? Might emmigration be the one time that’s actually a benefit?
Probably not, hence the disclaimer. And re: “you were awesome then”…I haven’t received the okay with things stage (there is one? awesome). So that may partly be my brain going in circles around things I could do, and can’t do, or shouldn’t try doing…
You’re awesome now of course 🙂 (and I’ll be squeeing at you when you get .biff sent on his way!)
@LBT, 🙁
Here are some cute animals:
Happy puppy.
Cuddly kitties.
Smiling hedgie.
Curious piggie.
RE: leftwingfox
MISANDRY.
RE: Argenti
*snrk* Sure, that’s a thought. If I finish my road trip and am actually at a place where I can work and save money again, maybe I COULD immigrate. AHAHAHA I TRIUMPH OVER ALL.
Also, orion’s back on the hypergamy thread. He’s rapidly becoming my favorite chew toy.
RE: cloudiah
SO CUTE. Thank you, venting and seeing those animals (and chewing on orion again; he’s back) have definitely lifted my mood.
At first I thought “hot sauce” was some kind of MRA euphemism for super-alpha-sperm. The asshole kind that monopolizes 80% of all the dumpsters.
RE: Buttercup Q. Skullpants
AAAAH WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT I CAN’T UNTHINK IT NOW. *has spent far too much time MSTing really, really bad porn* I thought ‘liquid luv sauce’ was the worst…
@leftwingfox
This reminds of the time I accidentally bought cool and refreshing body soap.
I had to throw it away because it burned whenever it touched a mucous membrane. This was not very pleasant to discover in the shower. It was some sort of mint or mint-like thing.
This is hilarious! Yeah, the women rating male co-workers according to their hotness, that could have happened. Crude sexual rapey comments and the management laughing it off as a joke – yeah, that could have happened too. Women sometimes do get away with pretty crude stuff in situations where men wouldn’t (although my analysis isn’t “because matriarchy!” but rather “because patriarchy, women aren’t seen as threatening the way men are” but whatever). And THEN, after being fairly credible so far, his story mentions what kind of comments, and we’re completely back in fantasyland…
@LBT
“Liquid luv sauce”? Wow, that manages to be simultanously revolting and redundant.
I’m brand new here and haven’t figured out how to post brain bleach yet. In the meantime, please accept my apologies, and an I.O.U. for a basket of kittens.
Hey, it’s kind of late, but happy Canada Day, still. Our fireworks were last night at midnight, when it was mostly dark enough to see them. Which I couldn’t, bad angle, but I could hear them. (I’m not really into tromping around by a river at midnight, in midsummer, being consumed by biting insects, just to watch some pretty sparkling lights. Go Canada!)
Also:
Yes. Yes you do. I no longer remember the context for this, because my brain, along with the rest of me, has melted because it’s STILL 25 FREAKING DEGREES AT TEN FREAKING THIRTY, but obviously, having your balls tattooed is always appropriate in any context.
Buttercup Q. Skullpants, Please accept your welcome package.
Also, Buttercup is my nom de guerre so it’s nice to meet another.
Thanks Buttercup, now I’ll never eat hot sauce again. (JK, it was funny.)
IIRC you can just drop a plain link to make a hyperlink, like so:
http://cboye.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/img_6920.jpg?w=900
(Sweet Pea, Violet, and Ralphie)
Also, Buttercup and everyone, Argenti provides a little guide to HTML in WordPress comments here.
Unless said luv sauce has been frozen or vaporised, in which case it’s a reasonable bet that sexytimes would not be happening*.
*If they are, I do Not Wish to Know.
Kittensssssssssssssssss!
::melts over the Unbearable Cuteness of Violet::