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MRA icon Zed: Let little girls drown, because they’ll probably grow up to be terrible women

girlmonster
What kind of monster will she become?

“Zed,” also known as “The Zen Priest,” was one of the originators of the Men Going Their Own Way “philosophy” and is treated as a wise elder by many longtime MRAs.

WF Price of The Spearhead described a compilation of Zed’s writings as “really quite profound as well as a great read” and used to give it out as a bonus for everyone who signed up for his email newsletter. Paul Elam of A Voice for Men laid it on a bit thicker, saying of the man he described as both a mentor and a friend:

[H]is writings have taken him to iconic status in the minds of many men who have been at this for a while, this writer included. This has happened despite the fact that he has eschewed the path of self promotion and opted to speak from behind the persona of an archetype, maybe because of it.  Either way, he has wielded a sharp sword from his underworld den, and worn the uniform of a warrior in the battle for sanity between men and women … .

So what kind of fellow is this Zed?

Well, as I learned from a recent thread over on MGTOWforums.com, where he is officially an “elite member,” he’s the sort of person who thinks you should’t bother to save a four-year-old girl from drowning, because then she’ll grow up into a woman, and most of them are just terrible.

The regulars on the forums there were discussing the case of Michael Patterson, a Georgia man who was paralyzed after diving into a creek to rescue a four-year-old girl from drowning, and who has now died after several weeks in the hospital.

While a few suggested that Patterson was a hero, others made clear they wouldn’t have done the same thing themselves. 0kool put it like this:

i know i would never save an adult CUNT….and i know that as sure as i breathe air. however, i would be hard pressed to save a female child knowing what she might have the potential to do in the future. My hat’s off to the guy. Let’s hope his death isn’t in vain and the child doesn’t become a CUNT piece of shit!

Zed, that grand underground warrior for gender sanity, that icon of the Men’s Rights movement, argued the same thing in slightly more restrained prose. In one comment, he warned of the dire possibility that the seemingly innocent little girl you save could grow up to be

another Amanda Marcunt, or Jessica Valenti, or Betty Friedan? Do we think it is worth a man giving his own life to save the life of a woman who will spend it being totally destructive?

In another, he raised the specter of an even more hated figure, at least amongst MGTOWers and MRAs:

Given the evidence around me, it does appear far more likely that a girl will grow up to be another Sharon Osborne – who thinks it is “fantastic” when a woman cuts off the penis of her husband, or the audience of women who cheered that statement – than a woman who contributes much, even to her own family.

I really can’t think of any woman in the public light who the world would be much worse off without.

When a female is in trouble, if I don’t know her, I don’t see her.

This is the kind of timeless wisdom that makes you an icon in the Men’s Rights movement, I guess.

NOTE: Thanks to @taylerlp on Twitter for the tip.

EDITED TO ADD: When I wrote this post, there were 13 or so comments in the MGTOWforums thread; there are considerably more now, including a number from MGTOWers who say they WOULD try to save a little girl. But Zed only doubles down on his position.

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auggziliary
11 years ago

Super late to the party…
Yeah, the reason the MRM talks about male domestic violence is because its like a “nuh uh!” to anyone talking about female DV. I’ve never heard an MRA talk about those issues because they actually want to help. It’s more “women should shut up about their issues because men have issues too, yet we don’t complain.”
Also I see a shit ton of fake stats from the MRM. Like believing that only 1 or 2 women in a college were raped(apparently to be raped, you also have to get your rapist in jail, which is a less than 3% chance in general). Also MRAs constantly make male rape jokes…

I guess you could see it as some of those white pride movements. They’re not actually interested in European history or ending the stereotypes of white people being bigoted, they’re just a reactionary movement to the civil rights movement.

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

@Spider from Mars

These men are amoral scumbags. Men have a duty to protect women.

Nope.

@velveteenrabid

I worked new high rise construction for 15yrs. I know a woman that was deliberately electrocuted. Another who was riding a golf cart and was intentionally crashed and tipped, nearly killing her. I was threatened with rape on a regular basis.

Holey hell. How does anyone who does that stuff live with themselves? All the jedi hugs if you want them.

@blaugren

From what I read from your site, the MGTOW don’t seem significantly more insane than some radfem though.

1) don’t use ableist language. The problem with MGTOW is their hatefullness, the problem with (many?) radfems’ is their hatefulness against trans* people.
2) So where are the non-hateful ‘mens rights’ people? because rad fems are a small minority of feminism, so I would expect you to lead us to some more vocal, more common, less hateful mras.

@kittehs

You wouldn’t have used the term if it wasn’t generally understood as saying “mentally ill/insane = irrational/bad”.

^BAM

Blauragenn, don’t worry about these closed-minded dunderheads and their constant attempts to undermine freethought by preaching about false equivalency and demanding apologies about everything which could possibly in some way be offensive. Such is the paradigmatic orientation of this site.

Spider from mars suddenly got totally hilarious, can I keep zir? I promise I’ll clean up after the troll and everything.

You will probably ban me soon because you cannot stand my truth and beauty;

Previous statement so not retracted. Can’t. Stop. Laughing XD

… and spider is banned for socking.

Oh well. Zir stay was short, but totally hilarious.

@Argenti Aertheri

*collapses into thread* please send pizza, and a canoli.

::sending virtual pizza::

And I’m going to post this before wordpress eats it, but my brain is totally shot today. Went to bed late got up early, ect.

Marie
Marie
11 years ago

@tugley

If we’re going to have cats in the sidebar, we must have this in the sidebar:

http://adultcatfinder.com/

That is giving me way too many giggles.

@kittehs

Also, thanks, everyone! I had fun drawing those, back in the day. Twenty years ago, cripes.

Wow. You drew those before I was born 😛 Nice hair, btw, I know I already said that but hair is hard for me, and I am totally jealous of yours.

@Orion Anderson

This public service announcement brought to you by the National Council for the Promotion of Misandry

The Evul Feminist Hivemind eagerly accepts your Promotion of Misandry!

@Argenti Aertheri

Can someone explain how one can be both not disabled, and have a mental or physical disability?

If I was one of htose who marked it, it’s because I do have a mental disablity (depressoin) but I don’t normally ID as disabled, if that makes sense? because when my meds are working it doesn’t interfere with my life much. I think.

And have to go. But I’ll be back soon! I hope.Hopefully I’m not being too interuptive.

Amnesia
Amnesia
11 years ago

I give you My Kitty Pictures!

One of these days, I’ll get some pics with a real camera instead of my macbook one. Some days I think he’s learning how to use my computer himself.

AK
AK
11 years ago

@Argenti, I don’t remember if I marked it or not, but I may have checked that I have a physical disability but I’m not disabled. The reason is that I do have a condition that may affect me in the future, and has affected me in the past, but is currently very well under control so it doesn’t really affect my life. I am not disabled, but I do have a condition that most people count as a physical disability, if that makes sense.

I may have just checked that I wasn’t disabled, I don’t quite recall, but I know I at least considered doing it that way.

pecunium
11 years ago

blauregen: But I am sorry if this use offends you.

Ah, the fauxpology, after the assfax (since you admit to knowing fuck all about the mass of the MRM, but you are sure the people referenced in more than a 1,000 posts are “outliers”).

Don’t be sorry that someone took offense, be sorry that you offended.

pecunium
11 years ago

blauregen: I remember a few comments from a self-declared radfem-site that wished for M2F to experience abuse.

And they are wrong to do it, but (you knew there would be a but), there is a difference to wishing someone might experience a thing, and saying that people ought to do a thing.

First show me a radfem saying feminists have a duty to go and abuse mem.

Then show me that feminism fails to condemn it.

Then you might have some level of equivalent argument.

I’am just not used to so much sensititivity regarding ‘insane’ and ‘crazy’, because I don’t associate them strictly with mental health problems.

The apple macintosh was for example described as ‘insanely great’, ‘crazy prepared’

Oh, so you were praising them. I see.

Wait, you weren’t. So you do understand connotation, and this tap dance is an attempt to dodge that you got caught out being an ass.

Good luck with that.

because in most english discussions,

I wondered how long until this defense of your ignorance would show up (I’m tempted to add it to the bingo card).

I’m willing to grant you aren’t a native speaker, but your mastery of usage is such that your using it as a defense seems just a trifle disingenuous; esp. since you have a grasp strong enough to be interested in what are pretty much US/UK centric issues, and claim to have no real difficulty with language of the people of the MRM.

talacaris
talacaris
11 years ago

I guess checking both employed and unemployed mean that you are employed part-time, but want a full-time job, maybe getting unemployment asiistance for the hours that you can’t find work

Kittehserf
11 years ago

@auggz: “@Argenti, could the single/not-looking/monogamous person be someone in an unusual situation like Kittehs or LBT?”

It wasn’t me, that’s for sure! 😀

@Marie: “Wow. You drew those before I was born”

AAAAAAhhhhh falls into little heap of dust from extreme age 😉

Thanks about the hair! Drawing long wild hair was always fun.

Eww, Fribs has done a litter bomb. brb

auggziliary
11 years ago

Kitteh, I don’t know what you are trying to tell me.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

maybe getting unemployment asiistance for the hours that you can’t find work

Based on this I’m going to guess that a. you’re not in the US and b. you’re in a country with a far more progressive approach to poverty.

(The approach to poverty in the US being mostly “fuck you, you deserve to be poor”, especially when Republicans are in charge.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Foiled by the blockquote monster. Trying again…

maybe getting unemployment asiistance for the hours that you can’t find work

Based on this I’m going to guess that a. you’re not in the US and b. you’re in a country with a far more progressive approach to poverty.

(The approach to poverty in the US being mostly “fuck you, you deserve to be poor”, especially when Republicans are in charge.)

talacaris
talacaris
11 years ago

“Based on this I’m going to guess that a. you’re not in the US and b. you’re in a country with a far more progressive approach to poverty.”

True, but it is not as it used to be, the current centre-right government has cut this possibility down to ( I think ) 75 days, along with cuts in many other social benefits.

Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Cassandra — amazingly, that’s actually how unemployment assistance works in CT. Believe me, I was fucking amazed when my mother got PT work and they reduced, not cut, her benefits (and then her previous job picked up again and now she’s dealing with people with broken engines at two jobs [AAA roadside assistance and office work for a lowe’s repair shop])

elyrayldin
elyrayldin
11 years ago

I know I’m a little late on this, but I read this article about something very sad that happened in B.C. this weekend, and it brought this particular thread to mind. I wonder what Mr. Zed would feel about it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/story/2013/06/30/north-whitehorse-man-drowns-bc.html

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Really? That is amazing.

PsychoDan
PsychoDan
11 years ago

@Spider from Mars

These men are amoral scumbags. Men have a duty to protect women.

Nope.

I would say, though, that adults have a duty to protect children, at least to some extent. Which just makes what the MGTOWs are saying that much more galling. (What the man who died did was, of course, far above and beyond that, and my heart goes out to his loved ones.)

Because somehow my favorite game is an RPG by Square and fucking Disney. Idk, maybe I just like hitting shadows with keys…

I really liked the first one too, and I’m really disappointed with the total clusterfuck the series has become. (The reaction to 2 also seriously pushes my buttons in how male friends in fiction can never show affection for each other without it being immediately sexualized (see also: Lord of the Rings))

Also, I hope I didn’t muck things up in the survey by answering both some form of non-religious and also 1 or 2 parody religions (and maybe jewish as well, I can’t recall). Aside from contributing to your mother’s confusion, anyway.

SittieKitty
11 years ago

Yep, that’s totally me! I love how I’m the only one hehe

Kittehserf
11 years ago

Sorry, auggz, mixed up there – it was lowquacks who mentioned people in unusual situations like me and LBT regarding the single and monogomous answer.

nedbeaumontjr
11 years ago

Kittehserf –

I was looking for pages on the Tay Bridge disaster before, and found one called “Tom Martin’s Tay Bridge page”

You might like the following:
“Forensic engineering: a reappraisal of the Tay Bridge disaster,” by P.R. Lewis and K. Reynolds. (PDF available via googling)

“The Tay Rail Bridge disaster revisited,” by T. Martin and I. A. MacLeod (possibly hard to find but worth the effort).

The Tay Bridge Disaster – John Thomas (Book from 1972, out of print as far as I know).

BigMomma
11 years ago

http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/gems/the-tay-bridge-disaster

Can’t be bothered with html, sorry. William McGonagall, considered Scotland’s worst poet (and has a day to celebrate him, like Rabbie Burns) wrote what is considered his worst poem about the Tay bridge disaster.

Kittehserf
11 years ago

@nedbeaumontjr and BigMomma – I managed to introduce the Tay Bridge disaster and the Great McGonagall into the open thread on Feministe yesterday, which I think’s quite an achievement. I’ve a small collection of the Bard of Dundee’s poems at home – got ’em when I visited Scotland in 2000. First saw them in John Prebble’s The High Girders, which was my introduction to the Tay Bridge (thank you Reader’s Digest Condensed Books).

Kittehserf
11 years ago

Should add I’ve read “poets” online who make McGonagall look like Shakespeare. ::shudder::

nedbeaumontjr
11 years ago
Reply to  Kittehserf

I don’t know much about the cultural aspects, butlet me know if you’re looking for technical history.

BigMomma
11 years ago

Ah, kitteh, was unsure if you would know of McGonagall…although it did seem the only reason you’d be asking after the Tay bridge disaster. He’s the only reason I know of it, sadly. What thread and how/why did you talk about Tay Bridge disaster at Feministe?

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