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MRA icon Zed: Let little girls drown, because they’ll probably grow up to be terrible women

girlmonster
What kind of monster will she become?

“Zed,” also known as “The Zen Priest,” was one of the originators of the Men Going Their Own Way “philosophy” and is treated as a wise elder by many longtime MRAs.

WF Price of The Spearhead described a compilation of Zed’s writings as “really quite profound as well as a great read” and used to give it out as a bonus for everyone who signed up for his email newsletter. Paul Elam of A Voice for Men laid it on a bit thicker, saying of the man he described as both a mentor and a friend:

[H]is writings have taken him to iconic status in the minds of many men who have been at this for a while, this writer included. This has happened despite the fact that he has eschewed the path of self promotion and opted to speak from behind the persona of an archetype, maybe because of it.  Either way, he has wielded a sharp sword from his underworld den, and worn the uniform of a warrior in the battle for sanity between men and women … .

So what kind of fellow is this Zed?

Well, as I learned from a recent thread over on MGTOWforums.com, where he is officially an “elite member,” he’s the sort of person who thinks you should’t bother to save a four-year-old girl from drowning, because then she’ll grow up into a woman, and most of them are just terrible.

The regulars on the forums there were discussing the case of Michael Patterson, a Georgia man who was paralyzed after diving into a creek to rescue a four-year-old girl from drowning, and who has now died after several weeks in the hospital.

While a few suggested that Patterson was a hero, others made clear they wouldn’t have done the same thing themselves. 0kool put it like this:

i know i would never save an adult CUNT….and i know that as sure as i breathe air. however, i would be hard pressed to save a female child knowing what she might have the potential to do in the future. My hat’s off to the guy. Let’s hope his death isn’t in vain and the child doesn’t become a CUNT piece of shit!

Zed, that grand underground warrior for gender sanity, that icon of the Men’s Rights movement, argued the same thing in slightly more restrained prose. In one comment, he warned of the dire possibility that the seemingly innocent little girl you save could grow up to be

another Amanda Marcunt, or Jessica Valenti, or Betty Friedan? Do we think it is worth a man giving his own life to save the life of a woman who will spend it being totally destructive?

In another, he raised the specter of an even more hated figure, at least amongst MGTOWers and MRAs:

Given the evidence around me, it does appear far more likely that a girl will grow up to be another Sharon Osborne – who thinks it is “fantastic” when a woman cuts off the penis of her husband, or the audience of women who cheered that statement – than a woman who contributes much, even to her own family.

I really can’t think of any woman in the public light who the world would be much worse off without.

When a female is in trouble, if I don’t know her, I don’t see her.

This is the kind of timeless wisdom that makes you an icon in the Men’s Rights movement, I guess.

NOTE: Thanks to @taylerlp on Twitter for the tip.

EDITED TO ADD: When I wrote this post, there were 13 or so comments in the MGTOWforums thread; there are considerably more now, including a number from MGTOWers who say they WOULD try to save a little girl. But Zed only doubles down on his position.

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auggziliary
8 years ago

Speaking of irrational hatred of certain foods….
I absolutely hate mangoes. I think it’s the texture and that bitter taste they have. *gag*
Also I’ve never liked sushi, I’m not sure why, just tastes too bitter and gross.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
8 years ago

Really late to this, but I think this, along with the comments in praise of George Sodini that “this is what women should expect when they refuse to have sex with (certain) men” have to be one of the absolute worst things I have EVER seen someone in the MRM say.

This man exhibited amazing bravery and generosity that is frankly inspiring. It shows humanity at its finest. It’s a tragedy that he died because of it, but I guarantee that he would have still dived into that water to save that girl even knowing it would kill him. Not because he was “expected” to, and not because he was “forced” to, but because he was an amazing person.

And for these assholes to take this story and twist it into their hateful worldview just makes me nauseous.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

I tried eggplant in a stir-fry last night. I feel like I should have put the eggplant in first and fried it more, because it came out slimy and kinda gross. (but the overall stir-fry was saved by the bok choy and pork combo)

First time eating eggplant.

PS: on the drowning front, has everybody seen the video/article thingie about how drowning on TV has trained us not to be able to recognize an actual drowning right in front of us, and most drowning victims die within twenty feet of somebody who could have helped them but didn’t realize they needed help? Link

pecunium
8 years ago

Brains are ok. Done well they are textured like scrambled eggs (or so incorporated they lose texture). Most organ meats are ok with me (save liver, qua liver, and tripe; those are both largely texture issues).

leftwingfox
8 years ago

Howard: Did you purge it first? Eggplant works best if you cut it up, salt the pieces, then let them sit in a colander in the sink for an hour. Rinse the salt off then give them a squeeze and pat them dry with paper towels. That’ll get rid of the bitter/slimy texture, and allow the eggplant to suck up more of the cooking flavours.

pecunium
8 years ago

Mangoes are one of the most repellent foods I know. The smell of them is almost indescribable; a sort of rancid meat and kerosene odor.

I know about three days before they get ripe that they are in the house (well when I lived with people who liked/could eat mango).

leftwingfox
8 years ago

No! Not the HTML monster!

santa-fe style beans and rice.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

@leftwingfox

The recipe didn’t mention it, so I just kind of chopped it up and threw it straight into the stir-fry.

I’ll try it again, with preparation, and see what kind of difference that makes. 😛

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

With you on the texture of liver and tripe, @pecunium.

Remember my doctor telling me I needed more iron so to eat liver and when I protested, she reminded me about liver pate. Now pate I do like …

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

But mango juice is amazing! Particularly with vodka!

In not completely silly things, I am somehow more disturbed by the idea of you LARPing than eating brains…

Probably because the white wolf LARP stuff has chunks on, you know, consent. And not running around threatening people who aren’t playing, and how doing illegal shit is still illegal, and real weapons are a stupid idea…so I pretty much picture LARPers as idiots. Which you are not.

And eating brains as, well…I like mangos, so who am I to talk?

Falconer
8 years ago

Huh. Better not mention to this crowd the mango sherbet we enjoyed last summer, then.

Falconer
8 years ago

@Argenti, and wildly somewhat relevant to the Scots conversation … There’s a park just up the street from our new house that we’ve driven past lots in the last few years, and every nice, warm weekend we’re almost assured of seeing this group of folks in motley, like a batch of Robert-the-Bruces on acid, out swinging foam swords at each other.

We think they’re either LARPers or SCA.

We’ve never screwed up the courage to go ask ’em exactly what.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Never seen SCA people with foam swords, always wood, but I guess foam is probably better where the general public might get all “aaahhhh a weapon!!”

That aside, that’s hilarious, and my other problem with LARPing — my tolerance for being afraid I look like an idiot is fairly low.

I think mango sherbet sounds delicious. And that I need a nap before tackling the rest of the religion data.

SittieKitty
8 years ago

I’m an incredibly picky eater. It’s probably easier to list foods I don’t like than food I do. However, I try everything I don’t like every 5~ years so that I’m certain I still don’t like it. Recent things that have changed from “Do not like” to “Like” category: Cherries and blueberries. Something I really don’t like is “fishy” flavour – which means that all seafood is off my menu.

However, I do like my steak rare or blue, and I like liver, especially when it’s been lightly fried.

Falconer
8 years ago

Well, they’re more like PVC piping covered with foam — they’re rigid, and fairly substantial.

I figger it was that, or oars.

Howard Bannister
8 years ago

That aside, that’s hilarious, and my other problem with LARPing — my tolerance for being afraid I look like an idiot is fairly low.

I’ve been trying to learn to do new things, including things that generally lean towards making me look stupid in public. Testing my boundaries, that sort of thing. It’s been mostly good.

I mean, except for that panic attack on stage, in front of all those people. I totally thought I was going to die. And I was in the back row of the chorus, for crying out loud!

Still totally worth it.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I love mango! The texture is odd, though, so I can see why not everyone likes them. I don’t find the smell objectionable at all though. Now, durian otoh…

Gristly and meat fat are the textures I find completely intolerable, followed by anything slimy. Speaking of which, Howard, if you like spicy things you might want to try classic Chinese spicy eggplant, since the cooking technique produces a different kind of texture (and also the sauce is great).

With veggies I find that proper cooking can eliminate the slimy texture problem most of the time. I often hate okra because of the texture, for example, but apparently it doesn’t have to be slimy because I’ve had it served to me in a perfectly acceptable non-slimy form in some restaurants.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Durian, *hork*

cloudiah
8 years ago

I adore mango too, but haven’t had a really good one in ages. Generally, texture is usually the reason for my food dislikes (mushrooms, shellfish); flavor is a lesser culprit (I’m looking at you, beets — why must you look so pretty, but taste exactly like dirt?!)

Shadow
Shadow
8 years ago

As far as texture goes I can’t stand okra, liver and drumsticks (the vegetable). I also have a dislike for the texture of jackfruit, but I love the taste so I manage to get over it. My ability to enjoy durian depends on the fruit and the day (ditto young coconut).

@Cassandra

Did you also grow up calling okra “Ladies’ fingers”. It led to a rather hilarious conversation the first time I went to a cajun restaurant.

@Howard

South Asians usually fry the eggplant slices before we throw them into whatever dish, it rids them of the sliminess. A less oily alternative is to spray them with oil and throw em into the oven.

Ally S
8 years ago

My brother once compared the insides of durians to rotting chicken fat. I still think his description is fitting.

SittieKitty
8 years ago

my tolerance for being afraid I look like an idiot is fairly low.

Tell me about it! I’m very self-conscious about stuff like that, so I tend not to do it. People call me a snob, but it’s not so much looking down as being afraid that someone will look down on me. For me, it’s a side effect of childhood bullying I imagine. I’d rather be called no fun then be laughed at…

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

@ Shadow

Yes! But the awkward conversation was with Mr C’s mother, who was all “well, yes, of course you wouldn’t want to eat that…”.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

olks in motley, like a batch of Robert-the-Bruces on acid, out swinging foam swords at each other.

They sound a bit like Morris dancers.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

Aw, don’t hate the LARPers! Most of my friends here are LARPers, and they always seem to have a grand old time. (The only reason we haven’t joined them is because I just KNOW it’d become a massive time-sink, and I can’t make that commitment.) I have no sense of my own dignity, so bonking someone with a foam sword is totally fine.

Regarding food–count me among the people who don’t like the texture of mango. I CAN eat it, but I don’t seek it out on my own. Fat, on the other hand, I’m on like mad. (Funny for an ED guy…)

I’m a bit ashamed that I seem to have trouble with meats that actually show what part of the animal they’re from. I veer towards vegetarianism just because I feel like if I’m too squeamish to deal with the fact that I’m eating an animal, or kill it myself, I shouldn’t eat it. (This rule applies to me, not to people around me.)

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Kittehserf

One of the DIY comics guys I know made a great nonfiction comic about a local Morris dancer coming back from the dead! (He had a heart attack, was officially dead for a few minutes, and then revived.) The local Morris Dancer group celebrate every year the man’s recovery.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

so bonking someone with a foam sword is totally fine.

You have no idea how unfortunate the mental images this conjures up for a Brit are.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Cassandra – or an Aussie! 😀

LBT – what a great idea!

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: CassandraSays and Kittehserf

You two have dirty, dirty minds.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I’m all, but how would you get the foam firm enough for it to…

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: CassandraSays

Ask not, lest ye be answered.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

And now I’m seeing Thomas asking Raige all those zombie questions…you really don’t want to know.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Argenti

Never, ever ask about zombie procreation. Unless you plan to be celibate for the rest of your afterlife.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Look, I know there’s a stork involved, and am going to choose to believe it’s summon by the Good (neither good nor nice) Magician or something!

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Argenti

It was a weird retcon. For the first six books, people had kids the normal way, and then in Book Seven, Piers Anthony decided to make this whole ‘summoning the stork’ thing, which isn’t actually a euphemism. Hugging very closely creates an ellipses, which goes to the stork and tells them to bring babies. So now there’s apparently no pregnancy in Xanth, and women just gain weight for… reasons?

I am so sad that I remember these things. I am also sad that even without any exaggeration, it SOUNDS completely made up.

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

At least it’s doesn’t have, um, I’ll let Voltaire handle this one…

http://youtu.be/bcON9ZmGDBc

Now, idk wtf these … have to do with it, but at least it isn’t that ^

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I had to make a great deal of effort not to spit out my iced tea when I got to the bit about the tip.

(We hate sex, feminists, we don’t like jokes about it at all.)

Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

You made it that far without putting down your tea? *is impressed*

Kittehserf
8 years ago

LBT – a dirty mind? Moi? I am shocked, shocked! you would suggest such a thing.

SittieKitty – “I’d rather be called no fun then be laughed at…”

I’m not that fussed about doing stuff I want to, because what strangers think of that, well, meh, tough shit, who’re they? Yet things like tripping on rough paving, or going the wrong way coming out of a shop, or tiny trivial things like that, embarrass me. How silly is that?

On the fun part, what I am NOT interested in is being pressured to do stuff or try food because “It’ll be fun/tasty! Go on, try it, you’ll like it! Don’t be a wimp/killjoy!” I loathe that sort of “we know what you like better than you do” with a side order of bullying. Like a time in Chicago when friends had booked a restaurant and hadn’t bothered to tell me it was a spy-theme restaurant. You couldn’t get in without doing some little song and dance at the entrance, which was filmed and broadcast inside. I wasn’t remotely interested in this sort of shit, least of all when it was sprung on me, and I flat out refused to do it. My sense of humour had gone minus-zero in that situation. Fortunately the staff member realised she’d better just let us in – she ran some spiel about me not breaking under interrogation – but oy, friends, NEVER DO THAT TO ME. I won’t cave like I would have twenty, thirty years ago, I’ll just get really, really angry.

katz
8 years ago

Kitteh, ugh. I hate Wacky Surprises. Come on, people.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I hate Wacky in general, and would tend to expect friends to know this about me and not put me in situations where being publicly wacky is required.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

They call it a surprise because if they said let’s all get together and blind side someone it wouldn’t sound like any fun at all, now would it.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

What got me was that it was two friends I’d never expect to do that. I’m not sure they didn’t think I knew what the restaurant was like – which is really stupid itself: hello, Chicago, never been there, never heard of this place, how the fuck would I know what it was like? Not to mention that booking it without finding out first if I was okay with it was stupid.

At least they know now not to try something like that again.

katz
8 years ago

I can imagine a frame of mind I could be in where that would sound fun and I certainly know people who would love it, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together should know that a lot of people would die of embarrassment doing something like that. Why do people feel like it won’t be fun if they just ask ahead of time?

…I’m seeing a little parallel with consent here.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

And then when the person who gets the “surprise” doesn’t react well everyone immediately starts going on about them not being a good sport and ruining the evening and how it’s their own fault for not appreciating the fact that the intentions were good and…

I’m thinking katz might be on to something here.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Exactly, katz! I’d much rather have known and had the chance to say no (which I probably would, these days). Being humiliated for other people’s amusement is not my thing.

I hadn’t thought of the consent parallel, but it is creepily similar.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

Cassandra – oh gods, yes. I got so much “just do it” from my friends – not in a nasty way, but they were surprised and, I think, embarrassed that I was refusing and angry about it. “It’ll only take a minute and then we can go in,” yeah, well, fuck that, I’m not a goddamn performing animal with no choice in the matter.

Kittehserf
8 years ago

‘sfunny how that came back, I hadn’t thought about it in ages. Lurking in the depths of old annoyances, ready to spring!

katz
8 years ago

The coercive aspect is what makes it so bad, IMO. “Hey, you can dance for the camera if you like; it’ll be fun!”: probably I won’t, but whatever, it’s just silly. But when it turns into “You can’t do X until you dance for the camera,” then that’s demeaning.