“Zed,” also known as “The Zen Priest,” was one of the originators of the Men Going Their Own Way “philosophy” and is treated as a wise elder by many longtime MRAs.
WF Price of The Spearhead described a compilation of Zed’s writings as “really quite profound as well as a great read” and used to give it out as a bonus for everyone who signed up for his email newsletter. Paul Elam of A Voice for Men laid it on a bit thicker, saying of the man he described as both a mentor and a friend:
[H]is writings have taken him to iconic status in the minds of many men who have been at this for a while, this writer included. This has happened despite the fact that he has eschewed the path of self promotion and opted to speak from behind the persona of an archetype, maybe because of it. Either way, he has wielded a sharp sword from his underworld den, and worn the uniform of a warrior in the battle for sanity between men and women … .
So what kind of fellow is this Zed?
Well, as I learned from a recent thread over on MGTOWforums.com, where he is officially an “elite member,” he’s the sort of person who thinks you should’t bother to save a four-year-old girl from drowning, because then she’ll grow up into a woman, and most of them are just terrible.
The regulars on the forums there were discussing the case of Michael Patterson, a Georgia man who was paralyzed after diving into a creek to rescue a four-year-old girl from drowning, and who has now died after several weeks in the hospital.
While a few suggested that Patterson was a hero, others made clear they wouldn’t have done the same thing themselves. 0kool put it like this:
i know i would never save an adult CUNT….and i know that as sure as i breathe air. however, i would be hard pressed to save a female child knowing what she might have the potential to do in the future. My hat’s off to the guy. Let’s hope his death isn’t in vain and the child doesn’t become a CUNT piece of shit!
Zed, that grand underground warrior for gender sanity, that icon of the Men’s Rights movement, argued the same thing in slightly more restrained prose. In one comment, he warned of the dire possibility that the seemingly innocent little girl you save could grow up to be
another Amanda Marcunt, or Jessica Valenti, or Betty Friedan? Do we think it is worth a man giving his own life to save the life of a woman who will spend it being totally destructive?
In another, he raised the specter of an even more hated figure, at least amongst MGTOWers and MRAs:
Given the evidence around me, it does appear far more likely that a girl will grow up to be another Sharon Osborne – who thinks it is “fantastic” when a woman cuts off the penis of her husband, or the audience of women who cheered that statement – than a woman who contributes much, even to her own family.
I really can’t think of any woman in the public light who the world would be much worse off without.
When a female is in trouble, if I don’t know her, I don’t see her.
This is the kind of timeless wisdom that makes you an icon in the Men’s Rights movement, I guess.
NOTE: Thanks to @taylerlp on Twitter for the tip.
EDITED TO ADD: When I wrote this post, there were 13 or so comments in the MGTOWforums thread; there are considerably more now, including a number from MGTOWers who say they WOULD try to save a little girl. But Zed only doubles down on his position.
Not from the top of my head. I am sorry. I ocassionally get into discussions where men’s rights advocates participate, and from this I have a reasonable idea about their goals and ideas, but I don’t really follow them close enough to know the prominence and the finer points of their respective positions.
From what I read from your site, the MGTOW don’t seem significantly more insane than some radfem though.
There’s a big difference between a movement with clowns and a movement of clowns. Also, don’t use “insane” as a shorthand for “atrocious and wrong”. These are very different things.
Oh, yeah, I am so sure you’re here in good faith after the radfem false equivalency, blauregen.
@Tulgey Logger. I was using it as a shorthand for displaying abnormal behavorial patterns and/or being disconnected from common social norms, not in a medical or scientific sense. But I am sorry if this use offends you.
@hellkell Ah, sarcasm. 🙂
It doesn’t offend me, it stigmatizes mental illness by using “insanity” as a repository for everything bad and wrong. Fuck off with that “sorry if you’re offended” bullshit.
I’m sure you can find some unreasonable high-profile feminists.
But you would be hard pressed to find ANY reasonable high-profile MRAs. Or really, any reasonable MRAs at all. From where I’m sitting, it looks like most reasonable people who are initially attracted to the MRM due to whatever reasons tend to run screaming the other direction as soon as they realize that literally all of the MRM leadership are hateful scumbags.
So no, the MRA movement is not comparable to feminism.
I’m going to co-sign that “fuck off.”
That’s an interresting perspective, given that medical professions specifically avoid it nowadays, that it isn’t a term for any specific disorder, and that it sometimes is even used in a positive sense. Can I assume that you would find ‘crazy’ equally offensive?
MRAs aren’t comparable to radfems. Radfems are well, radical. These asshats we see from the MRM are basically from the core of the movement, they’re generally not just random trolls in the comments, they’re pretty much where the entire MRM gets its ideas from.
Show me a relevant MRA that’s not an asshat and I we will give you cookies, or whatever is worth it.
Also a broken clock is right twice a day. Just because some MRAs you see don’t always express their awful opinions on certain issues, doesn’t mean that they might not have those views.
Well everyone else ninja’d me.
“From what I read from your site, the MGTOW don’t seem significantly more insane than some radfem though.”
As far as I know, even the worst radfems do not condone or support abuse and assault in any way. And while I completely reject the idea of lesbian separatism that some radfems espouse, at least it’s a form of organization purely aimed at dismantling an oppressive system. Unlike the majority of MGTOWs, who not only condone and support abuse and assault, but also justify their separatism by talking about how horrible and “bitchy” women are (especially Western women), how women aren’t willing to have sex with them, how all women want to steal from fathers, how entitled and spoiled all women are, and so on.
So, yeah, I’m going to have to disagree here.
And thirding Tugley on your usage of “insane.”
Also, ignore the “we” in the “I will give you cookies” sentence.
Hey guys, be fair, doctors don’t use the term anymore, so that totes removes decades of stigma attached to word.
Oh, a dictionary troll.
You wouldn’t have used the term if it wasn’t generally understood as saying “mentally ill/insane = irrational/bad”.
Blauragenn, don’t worry about these closed-minded dunderheads and their constant attempts to undermine freethought by preaching about false equivalency and demanding apologies about everything which could possibly in some way be offensive. Such is the paradigmatic orientation of this site.
Commenters on this site claim to hate the PUA movement, but actually the PUA movement are in a sense their brothers. Look at how long someone like NwoSlave was able to stay around, compared to somebody like ProPatria Truthteller, who advocated for Christian female-run patriarchy and opposed the abortion/military/industrial complex. You will probably ban me soon because you cannot stand my truth and beauty; the PUAs are also demented weaklings who also cannot stand my explications of Christian neodadaism and meaningful intellectual dialogue about important issues of the day.
What in the world is a “paradigmatic orientation?”
Can you write in non-pretentious-speak, please?
You’ll probably get banned because you’re a sock. A very unoriginal sock.
You shouldn’t give it away so quickly.
bluagren: “crazy” isn’t any better. Fuck off.
Moar posts.
I agree with Ally. I also often see feminists call out radfems. Here and on other feminist blogs its often. Some feminists hold a grudge against them for giving feminism a bad name. Also are you sure the radfems you are reading about are actually radfems? (I know that the feminist who said “all men are rapists” wasn’t actually saying all men are rapists. It was a character in her book, and the line was to express her despair when finding out that her daughter was raped. It wasn’t the author’s view at all).
The reason for the “insane” thing is because most MRAs aren’t holding their terrible views due to mental issues, or trauma, or living in extreme social environments that warp perception. Its just people being jerks, usually.
The anti-feminist manosphere: literate enough to write about their bigoted views in highly pretentious language, not literate enough to actually understand the things their dissenters say.
… and spider is banned for socking.
Spider from mars sounds like a Poe.
The “truth and beauty” and part about Christian neodadaism does it for me.
Dear trolls – it’s not polite to put the people you’re trolling to sleep. If you can’t be relevant or succinct then at least try to be entertaining.
@deniseeliza Yes, and I certainly would not judge feminism from their positions.
@augziliary I will have to look into prominent MRA then.
@Ally S I remember a few comments from a self-declared radfem-site that wished for M2F to experience abuse. Hardly representative for the moevement itself, and likely more expression of passion about perceived injustice, but on a comparable level to comments in a MRA-thread.
Leading and commonly acknowledged MRA officially condone and support assault?
On the usage of ‘insane’: I disagree, but for the sake of courtesy: Is ‘crazy’ acceptable for you?